WalkingInBlack Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 I really hope they don't pull a fast one on us KS pledgers and releases the books to the public before we get ours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forar Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Actually, going and checking...Theres one which hasn't updated since January 2012. I might be willing to complain about it, but I only pledged $5. It's sunk cost. Getting stuff is nice, but that really isn't what Kickstarter is about; I fully expect that when I pledge money, there is a chance I get nothing from it—not all startups last, and sometimes projects fail. I am, to a certain degree, gambling on a product. While if I were an investor, I might have concerns about the delays, there is nothing to make me think that TTB won't be produced. The time is relatively irrelevant, outside of "release it for GenCon already so it sells well!" Republique, another one I went in on, has an average of 4-6 months per update, but has actually released 2 parts for Ipad. I know I'll get my android/PC version eventually, and nice surprise when I do. Still, I'm happy knowing some people were able to play it because of my help. Getting the product is just gravy. Well yeah. Some of those were basically $1-10 'tips' towards projects I thought looked cool but wasn't interested in funding at a significant level. But one like this, where I put in $100-300+? That's something else entirely. And you're wrong. Kickstarter is very clear that creators have an obligation to deliver or refund the money to the best of their ability. Sometimes the product takes a long time (see: Ogre), sometimes it means getting pulled through the courts or having to admit massive issues (happened a few times), but while KS may not be a form of investment, it's not a charity either. It's good that you and I can look at a $10 contribution as a "whatever, enjoy!" amount, but that doesn't mean campaigns are free from critique or obligations to those who funded them. It's definitely going to be different for everyone, as each persons financial situation will be different, but man, if a project that raked in 6 figures and I personally gave $300 to said "oops, yeah, not happening, oh well", that wouldn't be something I'd just write off. And while I agree that we will see TtB packages some day, that is basically what you're saying. And I disagree. Luckily, Kickstarter also disagrees. I'd never bother 'fighting' for a fridge magnet if I pitched someone $10, but if Palladium Books announced tomorrow that 'omg, making minis games is sooooo hard you guys! Yeah, sorry, not happening', my friends and I wouldn't just shrug off the grand and a half we contributed to their project between us. Late edit: before anyone bothers saying it; yes, like gambling, one should only use funds for Kickstarter that one is prepared to lose. Just because the $300 I tossed Wyrd for TtB doesn't cripple me financially, that doesn't mean I'm willing to consider it essentially a gift and quietly hope someday maybe I see something back. KS isn't a store, and we aren't investors, but as noted above, it's not a charity either. This grey area makes it LIKE a lot of things we're familiar with as consumers, but lacks the protections many of those things posses. This isn't a perk or benefit of the system, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was eventually legislation written to attend to those shortcomings. And frankly, there is a difference between accepting the failure of "Jane who lives in her parent's basement wasn't able to finish the 2k project she ran" and "a company that has been around for nearly a decade and presumably has some decent operating capital through a successful miniatures line". I'll cut truly small/independent groups more slack. But even small companies like Wyrd and Palladium? Still have access to more resources (money, people, experience, connections) than probably 90%+ of the creators on the site, and are thus held to a higher standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironmonger Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 @Star: sorry, I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starweaver Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Hey no worries, just linked them in case you might want to see them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm generally of the opinion that Kickstarter is essentially like a charity that may give back. I only fund projects that I'm willing to completely lose the money on without seeing anything in return, and I don't fund any other projects. I didn't fund TtB on Kickstarter because 1) I knew it'd get made either way, so I could have just purchased the final product and 2) I wasn't completely willing to lose money on a project I knew so little about. Honestly, I think the only way to approach Kickstarter is like a charity because you never know what's going to come out the other end. If you're doing it only for the product, just wait until it's available to purchase. My two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silas Cordell Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'm generally of the opinion that Kickstarter is essentially like a charity that may give back. I only fund projects that I'm willing to completely lose the money on without seeing anything in return, and I don't fund any other projects. I didn't fund TtB on Kickstarter because 1) I knew it'd get made either way, so I could have just purchased the final product and 2) I wasn't completely willing to lose money on a project I knew so little about. Honestly, I think the only way to approach Kickstarter is like a charity because you never know what's going to come out the other end. If you're doing it only for the product, just wait until it's available to purchase. My two cents. The problem with this view (on a large scale, not for you, personally), is that many projects that are kickstarted WON'T get made if they aren't backed and funded. Whether it's the actual requirement of money, or a way to gauge interest, or something else; projects on kickstarter are there for a reason. If we all took your stance, none of them would get made, or some of them would get made, but be low quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 The problem with this view (on a large scale, not for you, personally), is that many projects that are kickstarted WON'T get made if they aren't backed and funded. Whether it's the actual requirement of money, or a way to gauge interest, or something else; projects on kickstarter are there for a reason. If we all took your stance, none of them would get made, or some of them would get made, but be low quality. If you can't provide enough information that I feel that it is a worthwhile risk, then you don't deserve my money. Many things I see on Kickstarter really don't deserve to exist, or have no chance of existing with the budgets they claim. Just because I consider it a gamble doesn;t mean I have to be stupid about it. it just means that I have every little in the way of expectations for end product. That being said, the only reason I backed TtB was that it was wyrd. I certainly was unimpressed with the campaign, and honestly thought that it was a sign that Wyrd doesn't "get" Kickstarter. Events since have only strengthened that view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Ya the newsletter when out there giant shirk rap machine broke and they hope to have it fixed by Monday don't know how that will affect ttb but at least they told people that lol now Nathan I know you check the forums please just send that exact same thing to the kickstarter backers so they know as well becase some of them arnt subscribed to the news letter I bet Wait there's a newsletter?!?!!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forar Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Apparently there's a looming longshoreman strike that might be affecting some ports in the near future? I wonder if the books are literally still on a boat. If so, they might be there for a while, depending on where Wyrd was having them arrive on the continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTox Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I think this same threat happened a year or two ago at least along the eastern seaboard. If it doesn't get worked out, most shipments end up getting diverted to Canada and shipped through via truck. So if they're on their game, there is a work around that shouldn't add too much time. Although now I'm banking on August/September... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadesauce Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I've been trying to be patient about all of this. And although I completely understand setback, after setback, it's getting exhausting. Wyrd should take potential risks into account when determining release schedules. I know that all the staff at wyrd would absolutely put the books in our hands now if they could, and are probably even more frustrated about this ordeal then most of us, however, I'd find it hard to believe that wyrd is not at any kind of fault for different delays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 An "official announcement" on any of the channels (here, Through the Breach's Backers forums, the Kickstarter announcement method) would go a very long way to quelling the rekindled dissent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratsmitglied Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I actually think a kickstarter update is the only option. Posting here or on the other forum is just going to cause more complaints about news not being posted in the expected location... Personally I don't care that it's running late, I have at least 2 other kickstarters I'm waiting on that are overdue by a similar amount. One has been quite good with updates, the other has been much, much worse than Wyrd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpobjects Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Was there any word on when the miniature Hannah is going to be available for those that pledged that level? I keep reading about the books being delayed for various reasons but I don't recall reading anything recently with regards to models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starweaver Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 There was a picture releaseds a while ago showing a bunch of hannas that were painted for one of the pledge tiers so if those were cast it would seem reasonable to assume that the whole batch had been produced in one run. Edit: found the picture I was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibour Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Well the July 7th update looks promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkingInBlack Posted July 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Was there any word on when the miniature Hannah is going to be available for those that pledged that level? I keep reading about the books being delayed for various reasons but I don't recall reading anything recently with regards to models. Wyrd did say that the multipose miniatures had some manufacturing errors and needed to be send back to be redone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkingInBlack Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Anyone know where to send a email about keeping once rewards in one package, when I look ad the choices in the "contact us" it doesn't seem that any of those is the right one and sending a message in the KS doesn't guarantee it will be read, I tried to send a mail to Nathan but I’m not sure he uses it anymore, it’s a old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forar Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Hell, Nathan hasn't even posted in the forums in a month and a half. I was joking when I asked before if anyone knew if he was okay, but... anyone actually heard out of him lately? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardeg Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Anyone know where to send a email about keeping once rewards in one package, when I look ad the choices in the "contact us" it doesn't seem that any of those is the right one and sending a message in the KS doesn't guarantee it will be read, I tried to send a mail to Nathan but I’m not sure he uses it anymore, it’s a old one. I did send them a message through kickstarter right after the update but haven't got a reply yet. Not sure i will get one so i'm also interessted in a working email address regarding shipping my rewards in one big package rather than multiple small ones. Wouldn't be fun getting hit multiple times for the full pledge amount at customs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkingInBlack Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Communication with Wyrd seems to be very hard if even possible lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forar Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I remember in 2012 when I was getting antsy for the Warden to finally be released, and we noted the high box price (compared to several other minions), so I asked if the box happened to contain 2 models or just 1. As I recall it took literally the entire month of July to get an answer. This was also the time that I came to the conclusion that between lead up and recovery, Gencon isn't a weekend. It's an entire quarter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpobjects Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Wyrd did say that the multipose miniatures had some manufacturing errors and needed to be send back to be redone. So no Hannah before Gen Con, /sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Communication with Wyrd seems to be very hard if even possible lately. Have you tried the "A Wyrd Place" facebook page? It seems they have a pretty good conduit to the company (at least for those that facebook). So no Hannah before Gen Con, /sigh. Wasn't Hannah done a while ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utterkhaos Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Ya if they made and painted the Hannah's for those who bought them then they must be done. And they did have one at gen con last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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