Verdeloth Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 When Chompy is summoned he is summoned in LOS and within 6" but not completely within 6". Meaning just a piece of his base has to be 6" from the Dreamer and with Chompy's Ht4 it will not be hard to have LOS to him when you place him. Is this true ? that only a small piece of the base need to be within X everytime a skill say "within" ? I always thought it was the complete base that need to be within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey616 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Is this true ? that only a small piece of the base need to be within X everytime a skill say "within" ? I always thought it was the complete base that need to be within. Yep that's true... Unless the card/ability states; "completely within" then only a small part needs to be in there... "Completely" means that no part of the model in question can be outside the radius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verdeloth Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Dunno what i am doing wrong two times in a row i just been raped by lady J. Both games end of turn 3 i was downed to 1-2 models and gave up. First time as a grow list with nekima lilith ect and second time as a summoner dreamer today. Both games he catapulted up lady j into me and as grow team she slayed 2 young tot + nekima before going down. As dreamer my best attempt i tok 5 wounds from her but it was healed up immidlity from fear not the sword and her 0. And she killed 1 teddy. Both twins. Got mr graves to 2 wounds and killed mr tannen with a red joker. Should i just focus on my schemes and totaly ignore lady j or did i just have super bad luck with all my hits on her? All this mention models tok swings at her but it was only teddy that damaged her. Coppelius was boxxed the whole fight and the rest of my team was slayed by judge and co. Dremers wake condition was removed by lady j. Helpless neverborn player reaching out how to deal with the guild! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticVortex Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 What does a standard summoner dreamer setup look like for 50ss ? Just to get an idea how people play it That is a difficult question, because my summoner dreamer looks different depending on what crew I am facing and with what strats/schemes are drawn. Â I can say that I take at least 2 Daydreams, most the time all three. Â I like taking Coppelius with ODW, and do so often. Â Teddy is on of my goto 'big guys' and will consider him for ODW as well. Â I will sometimes buy Lilitu with Baby Kade if I have a strong need for the lure, and don't want to risk not having the cards for the summon. Â I don't hire Lelu...ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarsnick Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 It depends on the strat/schemes of course...though I've found that summoner tends to do a bit better simply because you can pop out another nightmare when needed. Â This is a really hard question, because I don't want to bring summoning most of the time in AOE crews. Â If I suspect an opponent to bring heavy AOE Â (I never try to base my crew selection on what my opponent has played before) such as my opponent chose Guild and Turf War is the strategy, I would assume they would bring Sonnia to easily clear the middle part of the board. Â In these cases, I will usually select Shooting Dreamer. Â You can't kill Dreamer if he is always on the board. Â Summon a Daydream, Empty Night, Shoot things. Â Go nuts shooting when getting close to the big fight and switch into LCB. Â I would consider taking Summoner Dreamer when possibly up against AOE when the Schemes support it. Â If it's Turf War but the Schemes are Power Ritual/Plant Evidence/etc or any scheme that can be completed with a few minions, I will summon Insidious Madnesses and spread them out. Â Â If they spend a model targetting one of these madnesses, then mission completed. Â I'm trying to do it later. Â As a general suggestion; think of Chompy as a shield. Â He is there, the enemy is going to have take that down (unless it's Tara who just burns the kid underground) to get at Dreamer. Â They need to waste cards getting through Terrifying and not get utterly wasted by insta-kill triggers. Â Chompy is a great Swamp. Â 3" claws on a 50mm base is a giant blob on the board. Â For Turf War, his melee range can take up a good part of the area which means they need to burn more cards for terrifying. Â Especially if Widow is dropping webs and daydreams are hanging around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verdeloth Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 We had stake a claim Line in the sand Protect territory Breakthrough Plant evidence And spring the trap With corner deployment He had lady j Judge Austringer Executioner Brutal effigy 2 death marshalls Watcher I had Dreamer Tantrum Summon Lilithu Insidious madness Mr tannen Mr graves 2 x Daydreams Coppelus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticVortex Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 We had stake a claim Line in the sand Protect territory Breakthrough Plant evidence And spring the trap With corner deployment  Alright, that is an interact heavy pool with both protect territory and breakthrough catching my eye....remember, we cannot interact with models the turn they have been summoned.  Mr Tannen and Mr Graves are both good models, but in this game, I suspect they would have ended up too much of a finesse pair.  Neither are nightmares, so unable to participate in the some of our movement shenanigans....that would be useful for corner deployment.  I would have likely hired Killjoy instead, and sent a Daydream as a Killjoy carrying missile straight at the Judge (beware of his triggers), Executioner or Austringer.  If I were sitting on a strong hand of 11's - 13's I would try to alpha strike Executioner or The Judge...if not, then would wipe out Austringer because of the LOS removal.  You'll get three attacks with him, so presuming you hit with each and don't flip the black joker; that is 12 wounds being delivered. If I didn't take Killjoy, then I would have taken Teddy with ODW for sure...possibly Widow Weaver for a late game Teddy, but that is a gamble.  Speaking of Gamble, Stitches would do well in this game I think.  Send Insidious Madness's off to interact till their hearts content while using Stitched to gamble their life and throw up fog.  Lady J, The Judge, and Executioner are the muscle you have to deal with.  Coppelius can be useful for that after taking a couple eyes, but not before.  You should be able to easily out activate, making Stake a claim easier to get.  This is the crew I would have most likely taken....spending my first turn running daydreams up to deliver Killjoy, and summoning 3 models with Dreamer...probably these: Insidious Madness, Stitched, Lilitu...unless I had the cards to summon higher.  Lower waking by one, and prepared for turn 2 to lower waking again, allowing me to summon 3 more models before turning into Chompy.  Injecting 6 models into the first two turns of the game to double your activations and add approx 36SS, in corner deployment while everyone is moving up into position has been a solid tactic for me.  If you activate Dreamer early turn two, then you can position him via Chompy to start healing the crew as they activate before going off to be all nightmarish. It comes at a cost of course, but then...we are very fast.  Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap  The Dreamer -- 7 Pool  +Dreams of Pain [5]  +Tantrum [2]  Daydream X 2 [4] Coppelius [8]  +On Dreaming Wings [2] Killjoy [13] Teddy [11] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 What about taking widow Weaver instead of Coppelius, and simply summon him during the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Might work, but costs you a high card, that you might never actually draw (my luck means if something is a signifigant part of my plans, I can't rely on the cards to let me get it), and he can't get the upgrade. And the widow weaver can struggle to summon in Dreamer games, as his crew doesn't drop many counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticVortex Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 That is definitely an option Ikvar...my thinking in hiring him was so that he'd start off with full health and so that he would have ODW (which is my preference for him). Â Historically, I've had better luck with Coppelius than Widow Weaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticVortex Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Might work, but costs you a high card, that you might never actually draw (my luck means if something is a signifigant part of my plans, I can't rely on the cards to let me get it), and he can't get the upgrade. And the widow weaver can struggle to summon in Dreamer games, as his crew doesn't drop many counters. That is true...in this example, Watcher, Austringer, and both Death Marshals would have to be killed off before Teddy can come say hello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verdeloth Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 What is coppelius for ? Stack up balls and keep big hitters locked on him ? Summon alps? Go schemes ? Hes fast with terrifying but with for 8 ss and really weak dmg. Try to make hes terror duels a pain with combo with widow weaver ? Is all of hes tactial skill used in a fight or noone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticVortex Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 What is coppelius for ? Stack up balls and keep big hitters locked on him ? Summon alps? Go schemes ? Hes fast with terrifying but with for 8 ss and really weak dmg. Try to make hes terror duels a pain with combo with widow weaver ? Is all of hes tactial skill used in a fight or noone? That is what I thought of dear Coppelious when I first read his card as well. Â The answer is yes, all that....and more! Â He can consistently hit for 3/4, which is not bad and being able to jump to df7, gives him some staying power. Â He can run around doing schemes with his 8" flight (with ODW) if you like, or run over to heal a friendly. Â Alp generation is a nice touch...I like to give him fast with dreamer, push him, then have him pop out an alp, remove eye trigger for 3dmg, forcing a horror duel that, if failed, gives 2 dmg, and use his tactical to give slow, causing 1 dmg from the Alp. (or could make him defensive) Â I tend to go for the trigger when possible...less concern about the twist. Â Or...can just remove eye twice if you have the cards for it for a potential 10dmg...which should be enough for him to take out smaller targets (and his first target should be smaller to gain him some eyes. Â After that, run around with df7 and do what you want.) Â All in all, I have found him to be a beautiful utility piece, able to perform whatever duty I give him. Â He is not so much a pointy stick that you want to run right into your opponents chest...but more like a dagger to the back of their skull. Â 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 As I dont want to hijack the Pandora thread, I thought I would keep writing in this one.  I got very inspired with the whole Barbaros together with WP crews, to make his "challenge" ability as annoying as possible ^^  I have been thinking about trying one of these crews:  This one with a stiched as bodyguard:  Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap  The Dreamer -- 2 Pool  +Restless Dreams [1]  +Tantrum [2]  Daydream [2] Barbaros [10]  +Fears Given Form [1] Coppelius [8]  +On Dreaming Wings [2] Insidious Madness [5] Insidious Madness [5] Stitched Together [6] Widow Weaver [8]  And this one with a sorrow for even more WP shinanigens:  Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Barbaros with Sorrow for dmg on WP duels  The Dreamer -- 3 Pool  +Restless Dreams [1]  +Tantrum [2]  Daydream [2] Barbaros [10]  +Fears Given Form [1] Coppelius [8]  +On Dreaming Wings [2] Insidious Madness [5] Insidious Madness [5] Sorrow [5] Widow Weaver [8]  So what are your thoughts on this, and how would you "maximise" Babaros potential in a Dreamer crew? - and is it even viable, or does it just look good on paper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticVortex Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I feel like Barbaros would become an escort to other models as they do what needs to be done.  In essence, turning him into a tie-up piece...which is not bad as long as those being escorted do their job to get VP.  The problem I would be cautious of is what happens with the tough choices that would make him want to abandon his post as an escort?  I do think it is viable, particularly for strategy such as Reckoning.  I'd like to hear how a game like this played out.    Along those lines, Here is a crew I've been mulling over in my head...I am very close to bringing it to a table near me, hopefully in a Reckoning, assassinate, vendetta sort of game.  What are your thoughts?   Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap  The Dreamer -- 7 Pool  +Dreams of Pain [5]  +Tantrum [2]  Daydream X 2 [4] Bad Juju [8]  +Fears Given Form [1] Killjoy [13]  +Pact [1] Lazarus [11] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I would personally never take Bad Juju without neither Eternal Fiend nor Swampfiends for the extra life, there are many better options for his cost and even more so in a dreamer crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticVortex Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 That's a good point, Ikvar. Â I was leaning more towards Waldgiest with Eternal...for some staying power in area control games. Â This kind of crew places more emphasis on Dreamer to summon his little heart out in order to really accomplish anything in game. Â So the first two turns would be crucial. Â It seems like it could be fun to play...or a train wreck...haven't decided really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myth Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ikvar, on 01 Jul 2014 - 06:29 AM, said: I would personally never take Bad Juju without neither Eternal Fiend nor Swampfiends for the extra life, there are many better options for his cost and even more so in a dreamer crew.  I don't know about that. I've always considered him a bit of a steal for 8 Soulstones. He has pretty abysmal defense, but 9 Wounds, Regen, Hard to Wound and Terrifying can be a lot to overcome for some crews. Add in some high damage potential with Flurry, a Severe damage of 7, and the bonus of his damage pulse and Paralyze trigger, and I don't think he is particularly overcosted.  Now, if you leave him exposed, he will certainly get focused on and taken out quickly. But I consider him a prime choice whenever I bring a crew focusing on maximum threat saturation. The idea is to grab a bunch of effective models in the range of 7-8 Soulstones, go light on upgrades, and just overwhelm the opponent with a lot of scary targets, making it very difficult to choose who to focus on. And the Dreamer can be great for that, since he brings along summoning and cheap totems to eat up activations.  Just imagine - you've got the Dreamer in the back summoning to his heart's content. The opponent knows they need to prioritize going after him. But they've got, say, Mr. Graves, the Widow Weaver, a Doppelganger, Bad Juju, and Baby Kade waiting to ambush them along the way. Each of those models presents a sizable threat if they aren't careful. None of them are real easy to take out, especially with Manipulative and Terrifying to deal with - especially with the Widow dropping Web Markers, and Daydreams running around to debuff Willpower.  In summary, I think a list focusing on Bad Juju's rebirth mechanism is a totally valid list - but isn't the only role he can play, and as long as you are aware of his vulnerabilities, he can be a bit of a bargain for his price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafruk Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I'd thought similar to Myth, I was considering a zoraida crew with a beckoner or two with juju & teddy to be big hitters. Beckoners and obey can be used to pull an opponent into the meat grinder of the two big hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I got a bit of a random question after playing with Coppelius the last time, but can you cheat the healing flip on his zero ability "Savor Delicacy"?  Also, can a target get slow multiple times? I know they wont get slow +2, but would the new slow just replace the old one, meaning alps can dish out their passive damage multiple times?  Also I know a Daydream cant cast "Lead Nightmare" two times on the same target, but can a different Nightmare just cast it on the target afterwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttleboy Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Healing flips are cheatable. Slow isn't stackable because it doesn't have the + symbol. Yup. It was pretty broke-tastic before they added that language in, especially dumb when you add in Accomplice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Thanks, but I am not asking if slow can stack though- but am I able to cast slow on a model which already have slow, simply replacing the old slow. If I am not able to do this, the Alps attack will be pretty useless on a model which already have slow. I know that they will not get slow +2 as I said in the other post, but it also seems weird if the model would be "immune" to slow attacks if it already have slow on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Conditions Stack if the Condition's name includes a value and the Conditions have the same name, for instance Poison +1. When this is the case, the values are added together and the two Conditions become one. Conditions may also stack with Abilities which share the same name and include a value. Conditions presented without a value in their name do not stack, and a model that would get a second instance of a Condition simply ignores it (the second instance is not applied). Â under conditions in the rule book. hope this answers your question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdhay Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 So sorry, just to clarify two different daydreams can cast lead nightmare on the same target in the same turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 So that seems like it would make the Alps a bit worse, as they are only able to apply their "smother" one time each round? - is this also how the rest of the Dreamer players have played it here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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