starting with seamus

[Daysleeper]

ok, another loss for her, I took levi at her request, and she proxied some stuff, unluckily we get reckoning, murder prot and make them suffer, I tabled her by turn 4...

 

 

Keep in mind that you build your crew after (!) Strat and Shemes are known. Don't get to set on one setup.

[izikial]

yh, but she wanted to try some models out, and she wanted me to try out levi

[Mason]

our first 2 games were 30 ss, last game was 45  so she could proxie a few things, we havnt played with no upgrades, no

 

I usually run about 35 ss and no upgrades when I'm helping people get a grasp on a new crew.  I'm a firm believer in learning how masters and henchmen work normally before you start adding upgrades onto things, and it really helps to cut down on what newer players have to remember in a game.  That might be worth a try?

 

Proxying models to give them a try is a good idea, and something that's common around my parts.  Sometimes you click with a model, and sometimes you don't.  I can't get Baby Kade to work no matter what I try.  >.<

 

 

Some of our players have also had a better time just playing with strategies in their first few games, with no schemes, as it helps them focus on a single objective instead of three objectives while the opponent is also doing three things to win. 

 

 

Just tossing out some ideas to help out. 

[deValmont]

For the record, this is how myself and a friend who got into Malifaux at the same time progressed from first principles to a full game:

 

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/100138-learning-system-for-new-players/#entry717084

Obviously it's all down to personal preference but we felt that this got us up to speed in an afternoon.

[izikial]

ill see how she feels about some of those idea mindshred, I think she understands the game enough to mean going right back to the beginning might just be a long slog, but ill see what she wants devalmont

[Ratty]

BTW have you considered running a Henchman as your Master while she gets the hang of Seamus. It's a fairly good way of handicapping yourself.

[izikial]

do you mean she goes Seamus and I go hench or we both hench ratty?

[Ratty]

do you mean she goes Seamus and I go hench or we both hench ratty?

She goes Seamus, you go Henchman led. play at a point value that is legal so any point cost up to 40. It might help if she can concentrate more on her Masters interaction without having to worry about the complex interactions of your Master. You can still put together a fairly good crew.

[izikial]

ok, might try that, as suggested earlier were thinking about cutting out schemes for a game so she can laser focus on the interactions of the crew and how to get and prevent points before going back to full scale

[Drix]

@slowlauris

 

OK sorry I've been away. (Work.) I might post this in segments, and then maybe compile it into its own thread despite my horrid typing skills.

 

So here's a little Seamus primer for you. I'll do his card first, then upgrades, then his units, and finally strats and schemes: 

 

Seamus: There are 4 main areas to think about when playing Seamus- his gun, his movement shennanigans, his survivability, and  the fact that he can make both Rotten Belles and Dead Doxxies using Arise My Sweet. That last part is self explanatory. If you kill something, make a new model. If a Belle dies, just bring her back. Remember that successful or not, you can only attempt a ress once per turn due to it being a 0 action. 

 

.50 Flintlock pistol: PEW PEW! The gun is probably Seamus' biggest advantage, and is usually what people most associate him with- that and dead hookers. Seamus should fire his gun as often as possible, but remember as the weapon's description says, he can only shoot it once per turn. Since the damage spread (4,6,8) is so high you can pick off most models with that one shot and only Moderate damage. Therefore, taking the Focus action before shooting is critical as it will usually let you make a straight flip for damage. This will allow you to cheat in a card for optimal damage. A common activation is simply Walk, Focus, Shoot. Or Back Alley teleport, Focus, Shoot. Learning which enemy models to pick off is also an important skill, which will become easier as you get more familiar with your opponent's crews. 

 

Movement: Seamus' basic walk is a paltry 4", but he has 2 main tricks which help him get around.

 

The first and most important is Back Alley. Seamus is a serial killer. He appears from no where, murders someone, and then strolls away whistling a tune. Use BA to pop out in unexpected locations and shoot things in the face or stab them to death with Bag O' Tools. Terrain placement is important. As a Seamus player you'll be looking to set up terrain that blocks Line of Sight in a balanced and fair way so that you'll have multiple Entry/ Exit points for Seamus to pop out from. Remember Seamus only needs to be out of Line of Sight where he teleports from not to. So yes, you can teleport into Line of Sight of a model, Focus, and then Shoot. Or teleport and then charge with Bag O' Tools.

 

The second movement trick is really more of an escape mechanism for if Seamus gets engaged. The Crow trigger on his Palm Slap pushes Seamus 3" away. You don't take disengaging strikes during pushes, so if Seamus gets engaged, you can use this to push him out of combat. And then hopefully shoot his opponent in the face. Remember to Focus if you can! It is totally worth a Soulstone to auto-suit the Crow trigger. 

 

Survival: Despite his subpar Def of 4, Seamus is a very survivable Master.  Via his ability to use Soulstones, WP 7, Impossible to Wound, Hard to Kill, Terrifying, and terrific healing ability, he can be a very difficult model to remove. Both Hard to Kill and his healing ability Feast of Fear, deserve special mention. Since so much of Seamus' crew (and many Resser models like the Hanged) revolve around Willpower Tests and Horror Duels, you should be seeing him heal often. Over the course of the average game I've seen him heal anywhere between 8-16 wounds depending on the circumstances. Due to this, and the "AP tax" from Hard to Kill (one attack to bring him down to 1 wound, and another attack to finish him off), it is VERY hard for most non-master models to kill Seamus in a single activation. If he does take severe damage, the fastest way to heal him is to activate a Belle, use Lure or Undress on a nearby enemy (twice if you can) to heal 2 wounds per success. Then use another Belle's Companion ability for a second activation and more potential heals. Optimally you can heal 8 wounds this way (4 wp tests healing 2 wounds a piece) before your opponent gets another activation. Even if you only manage to heal him once and just take him above 1 wound, however, his Hard to Kill ability comes back into effect along with its "AP tax." Again, it usually takes multiple activations or models with extra AP to kill Seamus. Don't forget that the Horror tests your opponent takes for targeting Seamus will also heal him if they fail. After awhile, most people either ignore Seamus or try to neutralize him another way as killing him outright is usually a waste of time and AP.

 

Ok that's enough for now. Next I'll talk about his upgrades and stuff. 

[izikial]

slow lauris here,

ok so we played again last night and I lost, however I played a lot better. We didn't do schemes this time only a strategy, which I felt more comfortable with as I didn't have so much to think about.

I proxyed some crooked men and canine remains. found them both really useful even tho I should have used the canines corps marker ability more as our strat was recon and I could have used some more belles just for spreading around the table and claiming quarters, I didn't read the 'arise my sweet' thing properly and thought Seamus could only summon when he was in base contact with the corpse marker, I would have won the game, I think, if I had utilised this.

I also used Sybelle a lot more, I honestly thought I was through with her and was going to use Mortimer instead, but I actually enjoyed using her this time.

I got izikial to help me with my deployment this time, its something I always struggle with, and I asked for advice a lot through the game but he made sure I made a lot of my own decisions. 

I wasn't too keen on the him playing a hench instead of master, yes it would have been easier for me but if I had won it wouldn't have felt as good.

I need to stop worrying about belles dying, especially if I have canine cause I can just summon another.

 

oh yeah and Drix thanks for the write up its been a big help :)I totally didn't think about using Seamus's slap to get him out of a sticky situation, thanks for that! and I will remember to always focus when I shoot.

 

ok I think im done... until the next game

[Daysleeper]

...

I need to stop worrying about belles dying, especially if I have canine cause I can just summon another.

...

 

This is something i always need to remind myself of - some of my stuff is going to die, and thats okay. As long as you made the most out of it and the death wasnt unnecessary/fulfilled a purpose.

[izikial]

end of turn 2 start of turn 3 I thought I had lost, she was singling out my models and luring them in, what won me the game is that she has an irrational fear/hate for hungry and Jacob, she lured my Jacob into her nest and he then activated and got a brilliance kill to summon back hungry (she killed him first turn, but I know how much she hates him so took the rising sun upgrade) and then the pair went on to kill 2-3 more models, crippling her, and hungrys mi range held the rest of her forces in close enough to me so she couldn't get points turn 3 and 4 she would have won if she had moved for the strat before going in for the kill, I had 2 illuminated and rail workers sat back in defensive stance all game and I also killed her copycat as he fluffed 2 attacks against my near death illuminated so the illuminated charged him and kill him. 1 question for her, are doxies and rotter's the only Seamus able belles for summoning so far?

[Ratty]

end of turn 2 start of turn 3 I thought I had lost, she was singling out my models and luring them in, what won me the game is that she has an irrational fear/hate for hungry and Jacob, she lured my Jacob into her nest and he then activated and got a brilliance kill to summon back hungry (she killed him first turn, but I know how much she hates him so took the rising sun upgrade) and then the pair went on to kill 2-3 more models, crippling her, and hungrys mi range held the rest of her forces in close enough to me so she couldn't get points turn 3 and 4 she would have won if she had moved for the strat before going in for the kill, I had 2 illuminated and rail workers sat back in defensive stance all game and I also killed her copycat as he fluffed 2 attacks against my near death illuminated so the illuminated charged him and kill him. 1 question for her, are doxies and rotter's the only Seamus able belles for summoning so far?

yep those are the only 2

[izikial]

thanks ratty

[Drix]

 

I need to stop worrying about belles dying, especially if I have canine cause I can just summon another.

 

 

You know the Belles drop corpses when they die right? If one drops dead, you can just summon her right back on the spot. Or turn her int oa Doxxy instead. 

[Kalkris]

You know the Belles drop corpses when they die right? If one drops dead, you can just summon her right back on the spot. Or turn her int oa Doxxy instead. 

And vice versa! All living and undead models drop corpse markers (unless otherwise stated not to), and all constructs drop scrap markers (again, unless they say they don't). (When a model has characteristics which drop 2 different markers, fyi, you choose which one.) This is dependent on whether or not a model will be able to utilize them: for example, a Seamus player might only have Seamus to use Corpse markers, while McMourning generally doesn't use them at all. If Perdita were to face McMourning (in a thematic vacuum, I guess), there would likely be no corpse marker dropping as per mutual player agreement. If Perdita were facing Seamus, on the other hand, corpses would most likely be dropped (unless/until Seamus himself drops, I suppose).

 

I hope you know also that the opponent drops those markers as well. It's funny how Seamus can turn something like a Death Marshal or an Illuminated into a Belle haha

 

My point is that with all of those kills, you could end up overcrowding the board with Belles (or Doxies) if you really wanted to. It does seem, SlowLauris, that you've got the killing part pretty much figured out; now I guess you need to up your objective game

 

~Lil Kalki

[Ratty]

Well it's a (0) action, so you are limited to one a turn, and quite often you also have better things to do with the (0). I generally look at it as a positioning thing. Having a Belle in the right place at the right time is more important to me than trying to summon just to swarm the enemy.

[slowlauris]

Thanks guys. This is the problem, I forget to place corpse markers when something has died, I get over excited at killing something and turn into an airhead lol.

Would you use belles or doxies more? I mean if I can summon doxies then why not hey, but do I really need them?

[Fetid Strumpet]

In my personal opinion Doxies with Seamus are only useful as summons when you need a more combat oriented model, others might have differing experiences but that's mine.

I'd also personally recommend always running 1 nurse with Seamus.

[slowlauris]

Ah ok thanks fedid. I think I will give a nurse a try on our next game

[Fetid Strumpet]

Tricks you can pull with a nurse.

Hit Seamus with hallucinogens when a model charges him thinking he can't fight back, and then use the nurse's accomplice to let Seamus go and then use his back hand to get up to 6 ml 7 min dmg 3 attacks.

Use Seamus' sinister reputation to suck wp down and use her to paralyze.

Paralyze Seamus for a full heal in order to keep his -wp aura going.

Use her ability to give +2 dmg to an enemy, then use a belle to lure it out of melee so it is effectively paralyzed.

Give an enemy +2 walk while enhanced with a high ml model to effectively paralyze with disengaging strikes.

There are others but this tend to be common combos in my game.

[slowlauris]

Ok so played again today, I lost, miserably.

Izikial said I messed up with my deployment and thats what lost me the game. I couldn't see it when he first pointed it out but I understand now.

I had aolt more confidence in playing as I get the game now like focusing on getting points and not killing everything first, I just struggle with deployment.

My ego has taken a battering but im not gonna give up.

[Ratty]

The best thing to do with deployment with Seamus is consider what the opponent has and how it is likely to approach you. Then set up your models in a way to deal with this... For Example if there is a long passageway which is easy to cross the board through, aim to move a belle into it so she can lure people using it, and set up Seamus so he's just off it and can jump anyone being lured along it.

[izikial]

we had squatters right's (the 5 markers along the centre) one side was a bottle neck that was closer to her deployment, this is were she set up but it gave me cover to run up to before gathering my thoughts and going ham (I was playing a tara crew with killjoy and bishop (ps pls release a tara box that I can buy)). the other side was a nice open kill zone area with some ht 1 cover (I didn't have enough ranged power to utilize this area) 3 of the markers were visible and inside the kill zone so would have bean fair game for luring of. I sent 2 void wretches to the far right (kill zone) 2 were she had nothing as deployed hard to the left. with all her stuff crammed in near the bottle neck I charged killjoy and bishop (both had fast) in and started removing models, using kiara's upgrade to not have as many corps markers.

 

if she had set up in the kill zone area I wouldn't have been able to answer her threats for a turn or 2, she would have lured and killed anything I sent near it forcing me to be trapped at the left 2 and then she could have removed me 1 by one over the next few turns. she didn't see it till tonight, but I am terrified of lure and I think she understands why now, the first 1-2 turns when a lot of crews are getting to position you can be removing model's by luring them over.

 

she would have possibly done a lot better with her chosen deployment, but the one other thing that fluffed her up was using all 3 of Seamus's ap to back ally first turn (the first 2 attempts failed and she didn't want to cheat it) she them brought copy cat forwards into an exposed (it didn't look it but I unburied kj into a charge position) position, this series of events meant Seamus didn't summon a belle 1st turn like she has done recently, and allowed me to turn 1 kill the copy cat removing a solid damage source