Finding the right master

[Findas]

Hello all

 

i have been trying to get into M2E and well i'm not sure about the game. i think the problem i am having is that Kaeris just ain't for me, i'm not sure i like the way i have to manage everything cards in hand, action points, soulstones and burning. i like the arcanists or the idea of them at least and i understand that they are a very diverse bunch and for me i would like to stick to a theme.

 

i guess my question is: who is the best arcanist master and why should i play them? 

[PraetorDragoon]

How do you want to play? Hitting face, blasting from afar, summoning, burning, control, etc?

 

Arcanists are a faction built on synergy, they are a bit diverse but works the best when taken in-theme, however, themes can be pretty diverse.

[dgraz]

Agreed.....a little more info might help. But if you like everything else about Kaeris other than the book-keeping I might try Rasputina. She is pretty shooty and semi-board-controlling like Kaeris she just doesn't need to put Burning out to do stuff.

[Adran]

There is no best master per say. they each do different things.

Marcus has the best hiring options, and has the most versitility on his own (much of his power is unrelated to what he brings), at least in my opinion.

Rasputina does area control and damage better than anyone else, She does need to be kept away from the enemy

Mei Feng is very good at moving about, as long as she has already got scrap or constructs there. She is also good at combination attacks.

RAmos is well armoured, and capable of summoning new models. You will need to control scrap and tomes to get the best out of this.

I have much less experience with the Wave 2 masters in 2e.

 

Colette seems to be based on scheme marker manipulation.

Ironside is best in the middle of a group of enemies. I've not used her so can't say more than that

 

From a theme point of View, Ramos,Mei feng, Kaeris, Ironside and Collette all have strong ties to the MS and U, although how they use them is a little different. Colette probably would typically use her own show girls rathe rthan the rest of the MS and U models, but has always been partial to help from the Union miners.

[dgraz]

 MS and U, 

Miners Steamfitters and Union?

[Necrotix]

All the right words, not necessarily in the right order.  

[Findas]

if i am totally honest i don't know what i want to play

 

i have only had a couple of games with kaeris and i just found the way her crew works with burning frustrating.

 

i found it hard to put out burning and it was pretty underwhelming when i did, i have only managed to use the hard way with gunsmiths once (and he killed a ice gamin with 2 wounds left) and i have tried to put out burning so kaeris can go last and do some damage but it never worked and i have never even managed to use her immolate spell.

 

i am trying to work out if its the master i don't like or if i just suck at the game.

 

so tell me what the other options are and why you like them.

[Findas]

also i do kind of like the burning theme do you think sonia does it better?

[PraetorDragoon]

Maybe you should look at Mei Feng then. She has kind of a burning subtheme.

 

Her main tactic is jumping from scrap to construct and kick people in their faces. The rest of her crew can make use of Burning and apply it themselves, but don't really rely on it.

 

Sonnia doesn't do burning much better. She is more of a blaster.

[dgraz]

also i do kind of like the burning theme do you think sonia does it better?

I'm not too familiar with Kaeris, so I can't really compare......but I can say that Sonnia does indeed do it well. And with her Upgrade to create Stalkers when burning enemies die she is also a pretty powerful summoner....since it doesn't require AP and she's going to be killing things anyway.

 

As far as options goes, I think Adran gave a fair broad view of each of the masters but you might want to take a look at the Wiki.....I know there is a concentrated effort going on right now to update it with all the M2E stuff:

 

http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/

[dgraz]

Sonnia doesn't do burning much better. She is more of a blaster.

I have to disagree with that. Yes, Sonnia is a blaster, but her entire crew can easily give out burning just by doing normal things....no Triggers or set-up required (except for the Handler's 'Burn Them All' Aura ability and Sonnia's burning trigger).....Stalkers do it auto on any hit (or if you're too close to them when they die) and I believe the Purifying Flame does as well.....Witch Hunt is a straight Burning +4.

 

Sonnia and Sam's ability to ignore LoS and Cover against Burning models really lets them take advantage of it.....and as I mentioned above, Reincarnate is pure Gold.

[Findas]

Thanks Dgraz from what you say sonia sounds so much better than kaeris, the stalkers sound like the fire gamin and if you can summon them without AP thats much better, and there is nothing in kaeri's crew that can do burning +4

[dgraz]

Just please remember that I have virtually no experience with Kaeris and I may be selling her short....simply because I have no idea what she can do. I play Sonnia a fair bit, so I know her well.

[PraetorDragoon]

I have to disagree with that. Yes, Sonnia is a blaster, but her entire crew can easily give out burning just by doing normal things....no Triggers or set-up required (except for the Handler's 'Burn Them All' Aura ability and Sonnia's burning trigger).....Stalkers do it auto on any hit (or if you're too close to them when they die) and I believe the Purifying Flame does as well.....Witch Hunt is a straight Burning +4.

 

Sonnia and Sam's ability to ignore LoS and Cover against Burning models really lets them take advantage of it.....and as I mentioned above, Reincarnate is pure Gold.

 

My main problem is that there just aren't that many burning tricks in Guild. Only the Witch Hunters do anything with it. (I know that the Handler can improve crew burning, but..)

 

While there isn't much in the Arcanists that can fuel a huge fire, they set many little fires, which add up quickly. Some can also take advantage of being set on fire themselves (Hello Rail Golem)

[dgraz]

While I don't disagree with that, Sonnia doesn't really need to go outside of her themed crew for any Strat/Scheme...and her themed models have no problem with dishing out Burning.

 

And when the Avatar comes out, Sonnia will probably be able to hire Fire Gamin too for extra burning. I agree that there are less burning 'tricks' but the crew doesn't need them.

 

I also play 'Dita and Lady J....so if I want to play a different style, I switch the entire crew.

[Adran]

If you are trying to use Sonnia to summon witchlings then you need to manage Burning very efficiently. The little I've used Kaeris has suggested to me that she doesn't really need to manage burning, she just uses it as bonus damage. (The hard way and engulf want something on fire ideally, but it doesn't matter how much its on fire)

 

I haven't had problems settign things on fire with Arcanists, its generally harder with Guild, so I'd be wary about that.

[dgraz]

If you are trying to use Sonnia to summon witchlings then you need to manage Burning very efficiently. 

In as much as you need to set things on fire before they die? I don't know if that constitutes "manage Burning very efficiently".

[paradoxstorm]

OP: After indiscriminately buying lots of starter sets I am taking the time to read the big rules book which has a brief back story for the masters and other models.   I am finding that when I think about playing rather than building/painting I am attracted to different models.   For example, I've seen a few photos of Tara, but never gave her a second glance until I was reading the fluff last night--now I have a thread asking if I will ever be able to get her.

 

Not sure of your gamer situation--I am fortunate enough to live in a small town with one enthusiast who has a nice assortment of models and normally has to drive for an hour to get a game.  He is only too happy to let me borrow some of his models if he can get a game or two mid-week.  If you can find someone like that, that would be a great way to try different masters.

[Bacms]

I would take one step and ask how long have you been playing the game? Who do you normally play with and does someone else on your group play Kaeris. Watching someone else using your crew is the best way to understand other ways of playing the same game. Malifaux is also a bit tricky to get your head around at first as because of the low number of models mistakes can be devastating.

 

I have to disagree on Sonnia playing burning better than Kaeris as well as Sonnia does not really rely on burning. It is good to have but not mandatory. Also check the thread on Kaeris by MythicFox some good advice in there 

[mythicFOX]

I've been playing a lot with Kaeris of late.  I think a lot of players assume she's a mass damage dealer like Sonnia or 'Tina, which isn't really what she's about.  She's a lot more about dancing in and out making surgical strikes and doing area control.  Kaeris is amongst the most mobile models in the game. 

 

Part of the OPs frustration with Kaeris might be her core box set. The current metal one is not much use at all for her, it's burning use is fiddly and not overly effective.  Less is more, try a less burning focussed list;

 

Kaeris -- 6 Pool
+Arcane Reservoir [2]
+Grab and Drop [1]
 

Malifaux Child [3]
Mechanical Rider / Howard Langston [12]
Rail Golem [11]
Soulstone Miner [6]

 

That's a 37ss core, you can add to it easily to bring it up 40/45/50ss.  It has burning interactions but isn't dependant on them. 

[Matney X]

I would recommend checking out Mei, based on crew box synergy alone.  Mei benefits a lot from Kaeris' Fire Gamin and Gunsmiths -- the way I tend to buy things is "how can this purchase benefit what I already own?".

In the mean time, swap crews with someone you play with -- let them play your Kaeris, and you play against your usual crew.  You may see that they play your crew in a way you hadn't thought about, exposing both strengths and weaknesses you haven't seen or considered.  Even if that show you anything new, at least you'll play a different crew and get a better feel for what you want to play.

And, when you move to another crew, keep Kaeris around -- after you play a bit, you may decide to go back to her with your new-found Mali-skill.  I had to do that with Raspy -- I simply didn't understand the game well enough to play her the way she was supposed to be played.

Finally, get the "best" or "better" Master out of your mind.  The game is incredibly well balanced -- there isn't anything in any faction that is statistically better than than any other.  "Different" is the word, or "better at using Burning," but it's not like 40k where certain choices are mathmatically superior than others.

[EntrepeNinja]

To echo most, if not all, of what everyone has said, the game is balanced. Don't go looking for the easy win, because either it isn't there, or it isn't satisfying if it is there. Spend time trying to figure out your playstyle, and what feels good, or what comes instinctively- for instance. I loved vikis and Colette in first edition. Their play style changed quite a bit from v1 to v2, and perhaps my playstyle changed as the edition changed as well. Now I like McMourning for his tricks and survivability, and Hoffman for his ball o' death supportive adaptive gameplay. I'm less of a jump and shoot man now.

 

Presuming you have the wave2 files and maybe a wave one arsenal box, do some creative proxying, play some games, and find what you want to be/how you want to play. 'Cuz all the masters are good if you can wrap your head around them.

 

ENinja

[Baalbamoth]

I was in the same boat a week or so ago, and was really befuddled on what I should go for.. Finally I settled on Ramos because everything seems easy... 

 

tactics are straight forward (either get a crap ton of spiders and summon like mad, or get some beatstick elites and summon like mad) models looked very easy to paint (not a lot of wild paint schemes or too much detail, and a lot of repetitive models so painting seems more easy than any other master) I figure Ramos will get me into the game, and sharpen up some badly neglected painting skills (haven't painted for like 12 years), then once I feel confident in rules and painting, I plan on taking on a levi or gremlins crew after Gen-con (much more intricate tactics, many many more options... levi is insane with options... ) 

 

I really don't select out of fluff, (though the green ones seem pretty funny in both fluff and rules)

 

I admit I'm a bit of an ego manic, I greatly prefer winning and basking in my infinite awesome over losing.  Ramos seems to have a fairly proven track record with a rinse repeat sort of game play... perfect for a starting player, nothing too tricky or requiring too much set up or pre-planing (throw a Ramos crew together and it should work with only a smidgen of considering the enemy master's play style ), a lot of the other masters with burning army list/schemes, hard to grasp model rules, very specific ways for the model to survive long enough to afford the SS cost and what not seem like far reaching tactics that would take a while to master. Against experienced opponents that translates to a lot of losses and not much awesome basking.  

 

so I'd strongly suggest (from one new player to another,) find a first crew that you think you can have success with. Forget the look of the crew, the fluff, and pretty much everything else and just select something following K.I.S.S. that you think you can paint fairly easily, learn fast and start winning with soon.

 

you'll be much less likely to have fun and keep playing if you select a really hard to paint crew that takes forever to get finished, then takes a lot of losses and facepalming before you have an even chance of winning with. 

[Findas]

  

 

so I'd strongly suggest (from one new player to another,) find a first crew that you think you can have success with. Forget the look of the crew, the fluff, and pretty much everything else and just select something following K.I.S.S. that you think you can paint fairly easily, learn fast and start winning with soon.

 

you'll be much less likely to have fun and keep playing if you select a really hard to paint crew that takes forever to get finished, then takes a lot of losses and facepalming before you have an even chance of winning with. 

 

 

No no no and no, i am not the sort of player who can forget about the look of the models and just play to win. i have the kaeris box set fully painted and i enjoyed doing it. and finally my problem with kaeri's crew isn't that i can't win with them its that i don't understand how they are supposed to work.

[bertmac]

 

  

 

so I'd strongly suggest (from one new player to another,) find a first crew that you think you can have success with. Forget the look of the crew, the fluff, and pretty much everything else and just select something following K.I.S.S. that you think you can paint fairly easily, learn fast and start winning with soon.

 

you'll be much less likely to have fun and keep playing if you select a really hard to paint crew that takes forever to get finished, then takes a lot of losses and facepalming before you have an even chance of winning with. 

 

 

No no no and no, i am not the sort of player who can forget about the look of the models and just play to win. i have the kaeris box set fully painted and i enjoyed doing it. and finally my problem with kaeri's crew isn't that i can't win with them its that i don't understand how they are supposed to work.

 

I find it hard to lose with kaeris!.

She can't go head to head with other masters but will take down most scheme runners and has the mobility to reach them! 

Fire gamin should generally be your first activations get burning on opponents or at least deplete his control hand gunsmiths and kaeris then mop up as needed. Take metal gamin for objective holding and rail golem/Howard/joss as beater/tank