Alcathous

It's something that has been discussed, but we haven't implemented yet. I think the biggest hurdle is making sure everyone gets the memo.

Anyone else into this idea?

On 2/4/2021 at 9:49 AM, Domin said:

2.  To clarify for the world series - on which point ends the controlling effect?

For example, if we somehow command the Leveticus in 1 wound to do some action in a hazardous terrain (like with a crow trigger on Lyssa's close combat attack) and therefore make him suffer 1 damage "after the current Action is resolved" - who will control his decisions to activate his demise or not? 

Control for obey-like effects should give control for steps 1-6 of resolving an action, so I think the Lyssa would get to make the demise decision in your example. This seems like it's covered in the rules so I'm not adding it to our packet, but someone let me know if we're missing some ambiguity or nuance here.

22 hours ago, Domin said:

Is there anything wrong in my logic?

You are assuming that choosing something "not already chosen for this Ability this Activation" works the same way as the rules for "Once Per" effects.

For example, the ability could have been written "...it may choose another friendly Cadmus model within 4" to heal or suffer 1 damage (as before). A model may only be chosen for this Ability Once per Activation..." If that were the case, your logic would track perfectly.

However, the different language used on We Are Legion differentiates it from a typical "Once Per Activation" ability and we think interpreting it differently leads to a better play experience.

I'm just talking for the World Series ruling on this; I'm sure Wyrd will give us more clarity in the future. Obviously when Wyrd updates the official errata/FAQ, their ruling takes precedence in the case of any contradictions with our tournament FAQ document. 

On 2/4/2021 at 9:49 AM, Domin said:

1. Does the "not already chosen for this Ability this Activation" in We Are Legion Ability works on a "once per model per activation" basis, as all the "once by" effects?

For example, if the enemy model with a parasite token is within 4" of 4 Cadmus models an all 4 these models are hit by a blast - can they all use their We Are Legion Abilities to transfer 4x1 points of damage to a model with parasite token - 1 damage by 1 model each?

Cause if not, and We Are Legion is some kind of a general ability - then it could lead to some strange situations when two Cadmus lists face each other.

Here's the ruling for the World Series:

Quote

Does We Are Legion work as a Once per Activation effect, allowing multiple points of healing or damage to be passed to a single model according to the “once per activation per model” clause of the “Once Per” Effects rules (see Page 33 of the Digital Rules)?

• No. A model using We Are Legion must “choose another friendly model within 4”, not already chosen for this Ability this Activation…” The language used is different from typical “Once Per” effects, indicating different intent.
• Once a model has been chosen to be healed or take damage from We Are Legion, it may not be chosen for We Are Legion until the next activation.

2 hours ago, Domin said:

Can you please expand this?

I will after I have had a chance to communicate with the World Series team and we've made an official event decision about this situation.

The World Series FAQ has been updated with most of these questions. Let me know if something isn't clear or if I missed something. 

@Domin we'll get those added as soon as we can. I think for #1 the wording of the ability makes the intent clear that any given model can only receive We Are Legion once per activation. #2 I'm less sure about so we'll discuss and get back to you.

24 minutes ago, Adran said:

Do you say during the action if you are engaging or not, in which case can you outright deny disengage and charge actions, and prevent walk actions leaving, or do you decide before the opponent says what action it is taking?

The intent is the Gunfighter must choose before the opponent declares any actions. Gunfighters shouldn't be able able negate actions just by existing. Ty for mentioning it, we'll clarify the language before the next event.

2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Could also do with some explorer's related FAQ's.

How healing at max health with We Are Legion works is definitely a big one.

We've got some lined up, and I'll add We Are Legion to the list. Feel free to drop anything else here if you think it need to go in the faq.

We'll get some answers added to the tournement faq within a couple days.

December's Feast is over! Congratulations to the podiums of both the Blessed of December and The Damned!

Blessed of December Podium is:
1st Place @Domin
2nd PLace @wookiejunior
3rd Place @ShinChan
See the full results here.

The Damned Podium is:
1st Place @Pergli
2nd Place @TheForce
3rd Place @santaclaws01
See the full results here.

Since we had "dummy ringers" in these games, the ringers are showing up approximately mid-pack but they are dropped for overall series rank. So if you're showing up underneath the ringer, you are actually one higher than your listed rank. Your best three events of the series will place you in the overall standings.

Check out the overall World Series rankings at https://vassal.malifaux-rankings.com/#/rankings

Wyrd has generously donated gift codes as raffle prizes for the series (Thank you!). Raffle tickets are accumulating for each event, and we'll do a raffle every three events. The first drawing will be held after New Year's Retribution next month. Players are earning 1 ticket for playing, 1 for each game scoring 4+ VP, 1 ticket for taking a podium spot, and 1 ticket for best in faction. 

Once again, thank you and congrats to all who played.

@Higgybeans In my experience, anyone with Malifaux experience takes less than a full game to get up to speed on Vassal.

6 hours ago, SEV said:

Also, I already registered, but I could still probably change my master selection.

If you need to, you can change your registration choices from your confirmation email.
 

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Titania seems like a good fit for leylines. You can slow down lodestone carriers with underbrush markers (not to mention just proactively guard the strategy markers). She has tons of non-place movement hyjinks in the crew. The main downside is you can't 'into thorns' the models carrying the lodestone token.

She's very good in the strat. T and another piece or two play disruption while Waldgeists and Rougaru run the stone. Emissary is a must have (usually scores me points 3 and 4) and Rider is often good. Even the lack of Throns isn't too bad because T has Knock Aside on her melee and the Roug can roar things off points.

R2 terrain definitions had a typo; steam cloud should be hazardous, not severe. 

I re-uploaded the PDF with the correct information.

17 minutes ago, Whut said:

Ah, forgot that bit

It's a good bit. As @Maniacal_cackle stated, the ability is very well designed. I could go on and on about how well-designed Savage is 😄

2 minutes ago, solkan said:

Try it the other way around:  There isn't any way to get multiple cards into the conflict.

1.  If you would add multiple cards due to fate modifiers, the rules specifically call out that you only add one of them.

2.  If you cheat fate, you replace the card in the conflict with the new one.  The rules for cheating fate call out that this is discards the card when it happens:  "To do this, they choose the card in their hand that they wish to Cheat Fate with and place it into the Conflict, discarding their previous card."

As a result, there's going to be one card in the conflict per player, and that's it.

 

I'm on board with that. I'm more thinking about the question of how long the initial flip sticks around if the action creates new duels.

I think the common sense answer is until the next duel, but I don't know if that's explicitly stated.

To be clear, I'm not looking to cheese this at all, but if it's not explicit in the rules, I think it should be.

3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

If you cheat fate, I infer/assume that you discard the old card immediately.

This is called out specifically on Pg. 9 Cheating Fate.

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

You can only have one card in the conflict.

I agree with this, but it isn't actually called out in the rules (as far as I can tell), except in the specific instance of fate modifiers.

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

For the card that is 'in use' (aka, in the conflict), it sticks around as long as you need it.

• So I would discard it at step F of the duel.

Also agree, but also I don't see where it's called out.

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

So an interesting consequence of this interpretation:

• If you're in an opposed duel and they have to cheat first...
• You can use Deep Discovery to cheat using the card they just discarded when they cheated (possibly to gain suits or even just a better duel result for yourself).

Don't cheat down for suits vs EVS... 

2 minutes ago, Whut said:

I think Old Ways can provide us with a little Rules as Intended here. If the above is how it worked, then every Savage model would be able to Attack, cheat a 13, then at the end of the action discard the 13. Attack & Old ways - pull the 13 back in for another round. Attack & Old ways - pull the 13 back in for another round. Attack & Old ways - pull the 13 back in for another round. Basically until the opponent gets to take an action.

Old Ways specifically says to put the card on the bottom of the discard pile once the duel is resolved.

3 minutes ago, Whut said:

As a side note, I don't like what this means for EVS against crews with lots of positive flips (Like M&SU, for instance). Deep discovery is almost worthless when the card you can cheat is the lower of two cards that your opponent flipped (plus minus some variability in stats)

As an alternate way to look at that, it opens up the possibility of punishing your opponent even more when they flip double severe. Often, flipping double severe onis already deck pressure on the opponent, but Deep Discovery lets you convert that into board pressure as well. It's also really good with Harata's Distraction and Ngeri Haka.

3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Effects can be pretty small ("buries and heals 4" are two separate effects from memory).

So I would lean towards discarding the conflict cards pretty quickly.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. The exact quote is "Once the effect that caused a card to be flipped is resolved, the card is discarded." Which is different than saying "After resolving..."

I think it makes sense that each individual simple duel required from a shockwave is discarded one-by-one. But what about the card from the simple duel that created the shockwave? Does it hang around until the whole action/effect is resolved?

Now exceptionally curious because this hugely affects how Old Ways plays out

10 minutes ago, Whut said:

Rereading it now, I can definitely see it working this way, but it's a bit ambiguous.

It's a bit less ambiguous when you look at other abilities that do get pushed to After Resolving. For example, look at Bloated Stench on Stitched Together:

"After this model suffers damage from a  Action, the Attacking model gains Poison +1 after resolving the current Action."

6 minutes ago, Whut said:

Is there a line in the rulebook backing this? I thought this is the way it worked initially, but it seemed weird that both the Duel Card and the Damage Flip Card remain in "the conflict" until the action is resolved and then are discarded together. There isn't any rule preventing multiple cards being in the conflict explicitly, but the way that Positive/Negative flips work where one card is put in the conflict and the others are immediately discarded makes it seem like Wyrd were trying to avoid multiple cards being in the Conflict for a player at one time. And being able to place the card used for the Duel at the top of your discard pile (above even the card used for damage) seems strange to me as well.

I see what your saying; I can't find any other citation for where to discard cards from the conflict. Ambiguous though the definition is, actions are definitely "effects." I would say all those simple duels do stay in the conflict until the action is resolved, unless someone can find something that says otherwise.

"A model’s Health cannot exceed its maximum Health; if a Heal effect would cause it to exceed this limit, any additional Healing is ignored (as though it did not occur)."

If a model at full health is healed for 1 hp, that 1 point of healing is ignored and treated as though it did not occur.

45 minutes ago, Whut said:

Therefore I believe We Are Legion allows Cadmus to transfer 1 Healing to another model even when at full health, and Chronicle applies even when a model at full health receives Healing.

No, I'm pretty sure this is wrong. A model healed at full health is treated as if the healing did not occur. Therefore, it doesn't generate effects that are turned on by healing. 

This is also in line with how damage is treated (see Season 1 FAQ Sec 1.7 regarding taking damage from effects). Essentially, the amount of damage suffered is the amount of damage taken for the purposed of costs and other effects. 

52 minutes ago, Whut said:

What does "the effect" in the above passage refer to?

"Effect" is poorly defined, but should be referring the the ability/action/trigger that caused the duel.

So let's say someone is making an attack action with a positive flip: First, both attacker and defender would flip their cards. The attacker gets to choose one to go in the conflict and discards the other. The attack action is resolved (including triggers on either side, etc). Then, after resolving the action, the cards that were used in the conflict are discarded.

Emphasis on what "Once the effect that caused a card to be flipped is resolved, the card is discarded" is referring to.

56 minutes ago, Whut said:

After Resolving

1. At this point, Tannenbaum's Chronicle is resolved (assume Model A healed) - meaning the card at the top of your discard pile is ALWAYS the card last placed into the Conflict (in this case, the card you cheated for the damage flip)

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Chronicle waits until after resolving, I believe it happens when you apply result, right after any healing takes place. If I'm right, then it would be the "cast off" card(s) and not the card used in the conflict that Tannenbaum can reset. Please let me know if I'm misreading that though.

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

To me, the key issue with GG1 strats is you can't "preload" them (dropping lots of bombs, claiming lots of turf, etc).

Since you have to do the mechanic once every turn, you can't just use superior mobility to get an advantage early. Instead, the strong board presence of summoners really favours the "do the strategy every turn of the game" twist of current strategies.

So I hope that we see a swing back to preloaded strats, personally.

I haven't thought about preloading strats as something that favors non-summoners, but I like it. I'd definitely be interested in seeing a GG with an even split between 1/turn and reloaded strats.