Yore Huckleberry

So basically I'm proxy'ing my False Witnesses until they get true-released as a model? And I'm honestly about to put a Guild Investigator on top of a 40mm base to count as The Jury until it gets released ...

Also, this thread has got me thinking more about the Journalist crew, and their lack of engagement makes a ton more sense now: they essentially have a 2" super-engagement power vs interacts, but lose the movement and ranged-control capacities of even a 0" or 1" engagement to prevent. I think that's actually a really fun micro-tuning of the crew into its theme.

I think it winds up working out. Remember that the "Chasing a Story" trigger across the keyword is simply "an enemy resolves an interact" rather than "an enemy drops a scheme marker." So even if they decline to drop one of their own markers (or are unable to), they can still decline to pick up their own bomb. If you're using Nellie, you may as well simply "Don't Mind Me" in there to pick it up yourself, though, right? The place where it might be helpful to soft-force a marker drop is the inter-faction synergy with Barker's crew (whose abilities force dropping ENEMY scheme markers that Barker can summon off of or the Executioner can "Trail of Gore" off of. It might have been nice to give the option of hiring Nellie in to help with those interactions ... though Trail of Gore can still benefit from all her mechanisms for dropping a friendly marker, and an opponent may miss their opportunity and still drop an enemy marker down when you need them to.

I mean, as a rules matter isn’t “technically” the relevant case unless/until we see an errata or FAQ? I tend to agree that model friendliness and table half are the significant terms here, but I think Solkan’s correct above that defining “enemy table half” from the perspective of a model would be novel ... but that failing to do so leaves all the obey shenanigans intact. Maybe I’ll just have Nellie slow their models and make them charge their own backfield instead ...

That or you’re attempting it once per zero activations, and dividing by zero let’s you do it infinitely!

So essentially your theory is that Nellie causes the model to become friendly, but that the model whose interaction she is now controlling still views her table half as enemy? And therefore Nellie’s strategic value lies in something like stopping them from getting the strategy marker dropped far from your own crew, or having a 2” anti-drop aura, rather than a mere 1” engagement range that can be disrupted by Don’t Mind Me?

I think the most prevalent effect of the model counting as friendly is that it doesn't proc the crew's auto-focus ability. So you get the (fairly significant) benefit of placing a scheme marker, but you don't also get all of the focus and the card draw off of Nellie. The interaction with the current strat pool is its own thing. And I suspect the errata we eventually get on Nellie is actually something that fixes Deliver a Message, because as-is you can't take the reveal action against her, which is a pretty strong effect that I'm not sure they intended. (The second half is scoreable against her but requires hijinks like pulling her where you have a marker already, or shoving one into place with like Angelica Durant or a Guild Sergeant or something).

That’s exactly what I was hoping for, and matches my expectations. Thanks again, @solkan

So, the new GG-0 stops obey models from forcing a model to drop a marker ... but the Guild channel has been chatting about whether Nellie can still hijink it? If Nellie gets across the centerline, applies her 2” Exclusive Interview aura, and forces an interact while treating the model as friendly ... it seems like she IS still able to force a bomb drop by the opposing player? This is based on the wording that a model friendly to Nellie would be dropping a bomb on the table side opposite Nellie. Seems legit? Or some note: this takes considerably more setup, AP, and risk of your master than something like a Zoraida obey, so it makes some sense that it would have been “corrected” in a way that still allows Nellie a trick or two.

@Dark Reaper has a good catch there though - the DMR only recruits minions, alas! Thanks for pointing that out before I tried to back up Jury, Steward, and alone Marshal for Rrckoning point denial in a tournament! 🤣

(I tried to figure out the answer to this from the Into Thorns thread and wound up spinning a bit ...) Phiona’s “bring it” pulls a model move+2” towards her and then has it take an attack without triggers and a -flip to damage. Phiona’s trigger on the attack reads: “Target gains Distracted +1. If the target is within 2” of a scheme marker, it suffers +1 damage.” I'm a bit confused by the timing because my understanding is that without a modifier like “when resolving” or “immediately” on this, the effects should go in the order on the card. BUT the trigger adds “+1 damage” to the attack ... so does that happen before the model moves, and if so, does the reference check for a scheme marker take place before or after the model moves? So three questions, all of which depend on the order of events. 1) is the trigger’s check for a scheme marker made before or after the target is pulled by the ability? That is: is it strengthened by targeting a model near a marker, or by having a marker near Phiona (which also helps her Hero We Deserve ability). 2) does the target model suffer damage before or after it moves and attacks Phiona? (Eg, could she pop a single health model at range, or hit a Nephilim and not deal with black blood, etc). 3) does the model gain distracted +1 before or after it moves and attacks Phiona (this seems clearest: after, because you resolve in the order on the card). Thanks in advance!

My guess is you’re right - it’s an either/or and you’d have to pick which is best. That said, it’s nice to be at option on them.

It sounds similar to how the “after resolving” triggers are still considered step six of an attack to me. I’d view it, most simply, that “after the activation” is the last step of concluding an activation, and therefore limitations of once per would apply until a new activation has begun.

If the Guild Steward is killed within range of the Death Marshal Recruiter, does his demise ability go off if you discard to replace him into a Death Marshal?

As I understand it, the relative strengths of journalists are a bit niche in that mission. One is serene countenance makes them harder to remove: if your larger strategy is to scheme and not bother much with attacking, that's decent innate tech, rather than various offensive abilities. The other is that they block models with "Don't Mind Me" like a Collette crew, which could drop a marker through an engagement range, but can be redirected into scheme markers (or the removal action at least) if they're dealing with an Exclusive Interview bubble. And then there are models like Undercover Reporter that can force a minion interact at range: I'm still not clear if a controlled-interact can force an opponent to drop a marker for you on their side of the table, but if you can, then Field Reporters or Nellie or Allison can run up and force the interact through Nellie or the Undercover Reporter. And the Undercover Reporter is great if you're playing Plant in Corner or something and you can send a figure back to start over. I dunno ... Nellie's strength has dropped for sure, but it isn't totally gone!

That makes perfect sense as a general rule! I think the timing should be fine with Idol markers, as no deck-stacking turn effects will have taken place at that point apart from the initiative flip itself ... but it does still provide info that at least the reveal card is not in the opponent's hand, and while each player does it, the particular cards that flip could be more relevant for one than the other, so a fresh deck IS even cleaner.

I think @Morgan Vening’s diagram could also be a great cautionary tale for TO’s that if they’re including idols in their events, they might want to spot check maps and clear the idol spawn points of terrain. It’s an extra step but pretty quick. And I’d really hope players can simply abide by the sportsmanship rule and not disagree just to prevent a point. I think if I were a TO, I’d probably take two reasonable choices and make them flip for the position at that point and then reshuffle their flip cards or something.

So much for standing a Peacekeeper on top of the marker and backing him up with Hoffman, though! So ... stick Lady J next to one and dare someone to try to interact with her 2" engagement reach? Put Basse's crew near the drop spots since the impassable terrain gives them cover?

Aha! Yes, impassable idols tokens will stop the trick of standing on top of it with a large base model, and they can be used to stop charges now, I suppose. What are you thinking will be arguments around the way that the dropping rules are worded?

As a non-Zoraida player: Hooray! As an empathetic human being (who therefore probably has little proper place in Malifaux): Sorry, Zoraida players.

I'm linking this to the rules forum; others will want to see it. Well spotted!

Many thanks to @Maniacal_cackle for spotting GG-0 and posting it. TLDR: Corrupted Idols now requires a controlling model to take the idol damage during an obey, rather than the model it's controlling, during an interact. I believe idol drops are also more centralized, rather than near the flank, especially in diagonal centerlines. Plant Explosives the bombs must now be discarded on the enemy half of the table, so no obeying a target to just drop them. Search the Ruins now requires two pieces of non-token terrain that is wholly on the opponent's half. Vendetta now allows you to target an equal-cost model as well as higher cost.

Looks like other changes include: - Scheme 4: Search the Ruins. Terrain pieces must now be non-marker and must be entirely on the opponent's half. - Scheme 13: Vendetta. Allows you to take an equal cost model as your target, as well as a higher cost model/ Reckoning and Turf War left as is, along with the remaining schemes.

So, the big change to Idols was that the controlling model of an obey-interact takes the damage rather than the target, right? That's helpful, for sure. I'm not super clear what the update to Plant Explosives was, at a glance. Is it that a model can only drop markers onto the enemy table half? Does that rule out Zoraida dropping them for you and burning your AP as well?

@Kaiser Senpai, I'm assuming you've seen this: Will we be using the updates at Paddlefaux?