Dark Reaper

Two different discussions here, regarding upgrades in a Lucius crew and upgrades generally. 😊

To answer the opening post, the best guns in faction to copy with mimic are IMO the ones with decent range and/or moderates, i.e. Lone Marshal, Santiago, Pale Rider (more for the whole package than the gun), Pathfinder and there is an opening for riflemen due to ranged execute, 14" range and ignoring cover. Therefore, I don't consider a plethora of expensive 2/3/4 weapons worth it, as I would rather play another master or a different flavour of Lucius.

Have you ever played with this, or is it something you are simply making up as you go along? There is of course a possibility that I am completely wrong here, but I have played Lucius more times than I can count in M3E and have never felt like I needed Nino at all. We have guns that ignore concealment if that is really what you need. You can also use AW a fair few times in a Lucius crow, if you really need it to go through. What if your 7 health, 5df, no def-tech enforcer dies to one of those beaters? What do you do then? Nino is also really slow and it will take time to reposition him.

Lucius can remove distracted while commanding, so I really don't see the value of bringing in an 8SS model to get a 2/3/4 gun, even with the suit. This smells way too much of all eggs in one basket approach for me. For a single soulstone more (Nino+EM), I could get the PR. Also remember that Agent's AW is irresistible and will almost always work. I am fully aware that Mimic cannot copy master abilities, nor summon abilities for that matter.

Yes, the Jury is the most interesting one. Nino is 8SS OOK for a built in mask and a + on a 2/3/4 gun, which is so wonky and corner case that it will almost never be a good choice with the agent. If I really wanted a 0" attack, I would probably copy a garrote as well. The thralls I agree could be pretty scary. Sonnia as a second to Lucius is actually very good due to this, with her summoning and Lucius' issue command as well as the Agent's Mimic.

There honestly aren't all that many suits or +s to copy in Guild anyway.

Impressive work! What a great overview of the family models! Certainly a few things in here that I hadn't thought about.

And then Agent 46 can execute them when they have no cards left. That seems pretty competitive to me tbh. 😉

I made a short write-up of the Norwegian Open games I played: https://malifauxtattler.blogspot.com/2019/12/norwegian-open.html

Short write-up of the Norwegian Open: https://malifauxtattler.blogspot.com/2019/12/norwegian-open.html

Seeing as most other factions have a thread like this, I figured we needed one as well? What do you think needs to change? What needs a nerf? The Pale Rider is way above the curve, changing his damage to ignoring armour and incorporeal instead of irreducible would be a start (so you could still use soulstones), maybe something as drastic as just making it straight dmg might even be the solution. Right now he just does so much with his free action. I am not sure he needs a nerf, but the Guild Steward seems to make it into most of my lists. What needs a buff? The Frontier Keyword would like a few buffs here and there. Especially the Frontiersmen, as they just seem to lack a role at all. Austringers also strike me as way too expensive at 7SS. Orderlies could really do with a melee range that isn't 0", just so that they could be a decent alternative as a scheme runner, or something to use for hold up their forces Dashel could probably do with a little buff. His summoning is very convoluted right now, and very difficult to get off compared to other summoners. Family as a keyword is a little behind the curve, I find. Their models die to a stiff breeze and they can't really go wide as they are so dependant on staying at mid-range and within each others' auras. I think Quellers could get a little buff as well. They just seem to do nothing way too often. I should probably add that this is just from off my head, and I have probably missed a lot in both categories.

What did you play against?

First turn, they often use "Just Like You!" to get Lucius to move up the board and trigger entourage. Later, they can run schemes, act as targets for hidden sniper and do all kinds of shenanigans. They are a bargain for 4SS.

I'll try to write some reports of the games on my (rarely updated) blog when work becomes bearable this week. I posted the lists in the lists thread.

Lists I ran for Norwegian Nationals, single master only: Against Pandora in Corrupted Idols, 7-0 Lucius list that I shamelessly stole from @Flippin' Wyrd Matt: Lucius Scribe Agent 46, LLC Grimwell Alan Reid Investigator Lawyer False Witness Cache - 4 Against Ophelia in Plant Explosives, 3-8 Against @Scoffer. Facing a player I knew to be highly proficient and playing a master (or indeed faction, except for Ulix once) I hadn't faced before, I panicked a bit and chose a weird list. I don't vouch for this one. Nellie Printing Press Pale Rider, LLC Agent 46, LLC Pathfinder Steward False Witness Cache - 7 Third game against Nekima, Reckoning. Same Lucius list as first game. Won 5-4 Fourth game was against Ressers. Turf War with Wedge deployment. He dropped Kirai, I dropped this Lady J list. Won 2-1 as we barely got to play 2 rounds(!), but at that point he had 4 models left. Lady Justice, LLC Scales Pale Rider, LLC Lone Marshal Domador Steward Exorcist Cache - 7 Last game was Plant Explosives against Bayou Zoraida and @Barmution, won 6-5 Lucius Scribe Agent 46, LLC Pale Rider, LLC Doppleganger Lawyer Changeling Changeling Cache - 4

The pass token gives you +1 to initiative if you don't spend it, but I agree with you that that is marginal.

You need a low ram on someone with crit strike, but I have to admit, the statement was more tongue-in-cheek. You could probably find some use for him, for example by blocking a charge lane. That being said, he is a pretty weak model.

If you really don't like him, you can push with him early, then kill him for a card.

I like to take the Lone Marshal for summons. I find him all over more useful than the Exorcist, especially with the stat 7 on his gun and run and gun, and that added firepower as well as the mobility he brings, makes his a more reliable summon hunter, I find. Jury is good against Tara. I played her once against Dreamer, but Stitched don't care too much about her. She is also good if you need a high stat obey with built-in suit or if you need to take away the opponent's suits. Agent 46 is my pick against armour due to Analyze Weakness that can't be cheated against.

I have to admit I haven't tried anything like this, or even really thought too much about a list like this, but it looks potentially massive! Lucius has so many options here, with Hidden Sniper from the Lawyer, entourage, command into obey and commanding summoned minions. Even with little keyword support, Lucius should still have some decent card draw with arcane reservoir and pass token manipulation. The one thing I am wondering about: why no LLC on the PR? Are you keeping him out of harm's way for most of the game?

Couldn't agree more. I have to admit I have played Lucius mostly in keyword and Dashel not really at all, but my Nellie and Sonnia lists have almost no models in keyword. You take what you need to deal with what is put on the other side of the table, as well as the strategy and schemes of course. Noone should be concerned about paying 1SS extra for a Pathfinder who can push people around, summon traps and ignore terrain regardless of keyword. At least in Guild, the synergies between models OOK might be greater than the ones actually present within a given keyword.

Tbh, at this point they should just remove the clause about counting as a friendly model. It doesn't seems to help us in any way according to some , and is instead actually detrimental to our own crew.

The discussion is purely academical either way, as he isn't a minion and the DMR's ability won't work on him.

Yeah, then you don't do it. As I said, it depends on whether you have the cards in hand or not.

It depends on whether you have the cards in hand or not, and if you are able to use them to draw new ones. A 7 or a 9 honestly isn't that valuable anyway and cycling them out for better (or getting worse cards out of your deck) isn't that bad.