thewrathchilde

6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Once you start considering going out-of-keyword, there's so many options it's quite easy to get lost!  I thought it'd be helpful if we compiled a list of models we think might be useful out-of-keyword for other crews.
 

Philip and the Nanny: I'm not sure how good a model they are in general, but they offer potent disruption without being overly reliant on synergies. Also a tough model, can be good for helping defend and disrupt points on the field. Can remove scheme markers from elsewhere on the field as a trigger! They do lose their fading benefit by not being around other Forgotten models, but that may be okay for some tasks.

I agree with @Fetid Strumpet on this one....P&N just isn't useful to me either in or out of keyword.  If you listened to Craig's Third Floor War's podcast episode on Molly (https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/uwxm8-87b4d/TABLETOP-TALK---A-Third-Floor-War's-Podcast) I laid out my thoughts on P&N there. 

6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Molly: As FetidStrumpet notes below, Molly is a good option for card draw, marker elimination, and her triggers! Lethe's caress is also a potent mechanic that can punish your opponent.

Lethe's only works when Molly is the leader so isn't really applicable out of keyword. 

37 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Awesome, how do you suggest using him? Just as a beater?

Manos is a utility piece for me.  He helps me preposition strategy/schemes early. He is extremely maneuverable and can feint or serve in a deception role to pull opposing models out of position. He is a good second string beater and awesome at mid-range or scheme runner hunting. And he is a great tech pick for shutting down demise abilities and blunting the point of alpha strikes with extended reach. 

Manos is awesome in and out of keyword..... I even occasionally/often if not running a second master take him in a Forgotten crew. 

Do you listen to Podcasts?

My understanding is the same guy that was the guest on Third Floor Wars a few weeks ago for the Molly deep dive was recently on again to talk Marcus. 

I believe I heard the Marcus episode is going to be released maybe next week.

 https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/uwxm8-87b4d/TABLETOP-TALK---A-Third-Floor-War's-Podcast

https://thirdfloorwars.com/page/2/

20 minutes ago, Franchute said:

If I see outflank in the pool, two miners are autoinclude for me.

except against Tara crews....

Yan Lo is one where you have to choose schemes carefully as you (at least I) don't tend to have a lot of extra models or actions to devote to scheming. I like using the Gokudo or Komainu to scheme. I also frequently use Manos to scheme first turn or late turns as well and occasionally will even use Yan Lo on turn 1 to set  up schemes for later. 

It is definitely a crew where efficiency counts. Things that can minimize the amount of models and actions you have to spend on scheming can make all the difference. 

I like Yan Lo for Recokoning also....he can field a pretty resilient crew that is pretty hard to take down.

2 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said:

This thread backs up what I had already thought. The "pick 3" for the Arcanist faction seems the be Sandeep, Hoffman and Colette. As in, if you wanna play in competitive tournaments, you can bring those 3 and have all your bases covered. This is a pretty small sample size (9 people have voted at the time of posting), but still relevant. 

Definitely a small sample size.

I am not sure where I stand on the assessment of top 3 but I do think the gap between our tiers is a lot smaller than in M2E. 

I also stand by some of the other masters (Marcus, Mei) can be fairly competitive in a wide range of pools as well. Almost all of our masters can do well in multiple strategies as opposed to having a clear choice that covers all and only rare occasions for the others. 

No he has a lot of original content on there that isn’t on his other platform. A few weeks ago Craig also mentioned he recorded a Kaeris episode with one of the UK guys that is coming out soon.

i think he said he might release the Marcus episode back-to-back with it. 

17 hours ago, Franchute said:

@thewrathchilde @Stumpyfjord what are your Marcus lists and tricks?

Do you listen to Podcasts? Have you checked out Third Floor Wars?

They (Craig) had a dude on a few weeks ago that did a Molly “deep dive”.  Did you like that episode and format?

Rumor has it that in a few weeks Craig will be releasing a Marcus episode in the same format. 😀

53 minutes ago, dannydb said:

I'm beinging to like mei in plant and turf war

 

the only thing i'm putting marcus in to is the for sale box 

don't  discount Marcus. I have had some great success with him. Especially in things like Plant and Turf War- the crew is just so fast you can hit the strategies really quick and the put the opponent under some serious pressure. I like Mei in both of these as well and go back and forth on the two of them depending on what I think I am likely to face- generally I can pound more damage in with Marcus's crew but Mei's is better for me when I need a larger crew and just a few tanky pieces to hold some key places. 

52 minutes ago, retnab said:

I like Mei in everything, but I may be biased  

So do I. There are a number of masters and crews in Arcanists that can do almost every strategy pretty well. 

I am really surprised by the lack of love for Marcus or Mei Feng in Plant Explosives (especially) and Turf War.

The amount of mobility both crews bring just give you some amazing options for these strategies. 

Marcus can't push back with Primal Road; it's a pulse so he isn't affected like he would be from an aura that generates from him. Auras specifically state they can affect the model generating them (P.30) Pulses do not (P.310.

@Gaston who was the McM player?

@Cleezy, @crimzzen, @Fortune be sure to go on and give 3rd Floor Wars feedback and comments. This one was a little different from a lot of his other Podcasts/YouTube episodes. If you want him to continue to do these types of episodes let him know. Post up feedback on that specific episode on there and on here. His guest from that episode doesn't see the likes/feedback he gets on his site but does see what people post on here. 

Maybe I should have shared this a few weeks ago... I just thought about it because I shared the link in another thread. 

In case you aren't on the FB page, the Third Floor Wars Podcast had a M3E Molly episode a couple of weeks ago. A pretty in depth look that was a little over an hour long. 

https://thirdfloorwars.com/molly-malifaux-3rd-ed-master-deep-dive/

YMMV.

@crimzzen check out the Third Floor Wars Podcast- they have a whole episode (over an hour) on Molly: https://thirdfloorwars.com/molly-malifaux-3rd-ed-master-deep-dive/ 

Alternately @Saduhem and @Flippin' Wyrd Jamie both played Molly quite a bit in the closed beta (we were in the same beta group) and probably in the open. They are probably great sources for info also and might have a completely different take to the Podcast.

So does this mean we can now stop quibbling over changes and get on to discussion of lists, tactics, and matches?

14 minutes ago, retnab said:

It was bonkers value for 7ss, something had to change on it

But balanced with the rest of the crew and the rare limit of 1 (since Enforcer).... if you could have had multiples maybe..... but with only one of them just a good value to balance out the other choices in the list which weren’t good for their cost (Order, Cojo, Hoarcats).

I am just glad there were no significant changes..... I am a little disappointed with the cost increase to the Blessed..... they fit well in the 7 SS range.... would have liked to have seen Order Initiate come down a stone.

I remember this topic coming up near the end of the closed Beta in Blue and at the time the Dev response was a resounding “they are already costed where we want them”. 

Master costs aren’t all the same across all the factions and the master cost is also balanced by the strength of their totem which you get for free when you hire them as your leader. 

Masters are also balanced by their keyword and I don’t think costing or adjustments are as simple as looking at the master at face value and adjusting cost even as a second master.

4 hours ago, hemgath said:

If he had a boost... or at +1ss he only became like majority of the chimera... too expensive ^^

I am so with you! People need to quit asking for a kick in the stones.....

if we have a couple of models that need help (Order Initiate & Mauler) that ask for them to get help- test them and discuss how/why they don't measure up. Don't give away the goodness we do have because you want something else to change.... give the Mauler Armor +1 and he is good to go and then drop the Order Initiate by 1 SS and he is probably good then too....the Hoarcat needs even more help though. 

18 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

I was just doing a joke, I'm confident you know matures' rare limit. I parade consistently for Nephilim so the example called out was funny to me. I was in Red, IIRC. 
Nekima or not though, that rule in combination with Philip's "hurt to gain focus" aura was straight up bonkers. Mei Feng could jackhammer trigger herself to almost death in a single activation, 2 irreducible with no LoS was waaay too much. I'm all with the agree to disagree sentiment, but I felt strongly enough on that one to have played Molly for the rest of the beta if that hadn't been changed. 

In Beta Blue the bigger argument was back when Lethe’s was a blanket prohibition on duplicate actions- period. 

We had  people that it shut down movement, etc when my position was simply walk once, charge once..... people argued that their single attack models (Matures)  got shut down- my position was you know the master before you build your crew, hire models with multiple attacks. 

Diffetent rule- same argument; I am always in favor of leaving things alone that can be mitigated through other means- list design, play, etc. 

53 minutes ago, Flippin' Wyrd Jamie said:

I would love him to get serene countenance tbh. Everything on his card makes him an early activation in the crew so manipulative probably wont be much help past screwing with your activation order 

That is why I would advocate for Manipulative instead... it makes you choose what is more important to you. I like trade offs and their impact in decisions.

4 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

Hey, what did I do!
Don't be ridiculous!....
there's 50 stones and Matures have rare limit 2 😢
 

Yeah, obviously an exaggeration on my part meant to illustrate a point. My bad if that was you in Beta Group Blue......however, while I don’t remember the exact crew composition, I do remember the outcry from the Nekima players about how Lethe’s was OTT because it “shut” down Nekima and their 2 x Matures......completely different rule same situation- I was in the mitigate it through list selection and play camp as opposed to change the rule. 

8 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

 I'm not the greatest player, but I am swift enough to notice that 'learn to play' is an empty expression here.

No offense intended if you took it that way. It wasn’t an indictment on your ability to play but people’s resistance, in general, to new or change. 

I don’t count myself as part of the group that would simply say “learn to play” or “get good” and call it a day. With any of these (global type of abilities which I think are awesome new space) I have always tried to discuss how different crews could counter their impact or play against them.

Even back in the closed during the late Lethe’s unpleasantness I would walk through the master, crew, faction and discuss how a crew could mitigate the impact.  However there were always people that were going to play Nekima and all Mature Nephilim and refused to play anything else and we’re just determined that the problem was Lethe’s not their own rigidity of though and list design. 

I concede we have different views on this and neither one of us our going to change the other ones mind. At the end of the day I am going to play regardless of where the individual ability settles and I am not a designer so my opinion probably isn’t relevant anyway. I just don’t want us to ad a community to crush any attempts to make new rules or ideas or abilities when they haven’t sufficiently IMO shown to be detrimental. 

11 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Not only is a global ability unacceptable on its own

That is the root of the problem.... many of you are unwilling to accept that the designers are looking at new space. 

It isn’t our role to determine what is acceptable design space. The point of the beta is to show where there are mistakes or issues of balance.

Had there been global abilities in M1 or M1.5 or M2E we wouldn’t get the nashing of teeth that we currently are....in none of the cases of global abilities has anyone been able to demonstrate how they are too powerful, out of balance, break any mechanical aspect of the game. In fact ones like this (require LoS) are the easiest of the global abilities to counter but instead of looking at actual impact and then assessing the ability so many people attack them because they don’t like global abilities. 

Don’t box in the designers. We have already hamstrung a number of awesome things they have tried during the beta with design by the unjustified outcry over a new rule or concept existing even if it did nothing to hurt the balance of the game. Let the game grow and develop into new areas. Unless something actually demonstrates that it had a breaking affect just learn to play against it.