InvokeChaos

You can drop hannah for a direct swap. Yasunori is conveniently 12 and Hannah + grenades is as well. You lose a bit of that fun synergy, but going down to 6 cards again is pretty much nullified by Scales of Heaven and his Great Sage ability. This is actually my current choice to try out, because I've been finding I don't have a solid answer to beaters. Hannah is great, but she is also a support piece that can be a midfield model. Without a dedicated ranged attack, she relies on copying Anna, Chiaki or Obsidian Oni for effects. While i'm generally ok with this, I just really feel I need a model that makes my opponent stop and go... crap, I can't just get too close to that. And a Charge 10", flying beatstick that does 4 attacks with on attack and reach 2"... well that just fits the bill. Especially when I can move him 6" into position near Asami and then still get that beautiful 1AP charge off. We are talking 18" of threat! My only concern is that he has Stubborn, Armor 1 and average Df for his please don't kill me. Good amount of wounds, but I have to say I really want Equality on this guy. So I'd jump that off Asami on to him, and just be a little more careful on how often you're pinging Asa for that charge. Obsidian Oni are great with him, because they can just pitch a dead card to heal 2 on him if he has Equality. But the real make you cry situation is Terracotta Warrior. Remember that Ancient Protection is a may ( ) so you can pop it on early, and just wait for that inevitable severe or red joker damage flip to just go... "nope." They don't have any real synergy otherwise with my list, but one positive is that they can pitch hidden agenda or peaceful waters if need be to give you some better upgrades. (UPDATE THANKS TO @Eclipse). Or if your monk gets focused down because your opponent realizes that two ranged healing flips that drop scheme markers is pretty damn good (this is still something to take note of in general, despite not having the previously thought of synergy with terracotta). I would also consider dropping out equality mid-game for a recalled training to make sure that last charge of Yasunori does the deed. And best part is you can just swap out a yokai for one and laugh maniacally... or something.

I personally am not a big fan of Black Betty with Asami, as they both are hungry for cards. Especially with "only" 7 models in your crew. I would probably remove her for a yokai and maybe throw in a wastrel or monk of low river for healing and utility. Betty + grenades and going down to cache 5 = 9pts to work with. So there's options. Chiaki is a consideration, as her ranged condition removal and heal is really valuable for Asami's summons and to keep yasunori pumped. Snipers can zone out whole areas, but with a good terrain board, they don't have those lanes of control that just can keep the opponent out. Like the list though, may have to give it a shot myself! I have yet to run snipers with Asami.

TL;DR Tengu are solid but just outclassed by Yokai, even accounting for being 1pt cheaper. So tengu work best in pairs (or with a models that drop rampant scheme markers) offering their biggest mobility with marker jumping each other. This isn't the only time they are useful, but it does two things: 1) Encourages them to be grouped up for maximum potential or for you to be using AP to drop scheme markers in your backfield to give them extra movement. 2) Allows them to cover a tremendous amount of board while littering scheme markers in the process. Now Asami likes her scheme markers, mostly to chomp on them, so there is some synergy here. But in general, they aren't really "giving" her anything but a cheap scheme runner. They have flight. They have a decent walk. Their 0 action is amazing, just absolutely awesome (at least in the right scheme pools). And their ability to pop regen 1/2 on something is actually pretty damn useful, especially with all the hard to kill models we sport. But where I lose them in favor of yokai are in their non-scheme utility and their dependence. Yokai are completely autonomous. They don't need a second model to facilitate anything. They can put out a surprising amount of damage. In a direct comparison: 1) Yokai walk, Tengu fly the same distance. 2) Yokai have a reliable place within 3" (potentially multiple times a turn), Tengu have a place that requires an AP or ability to have triggered. 3) Tengu have lower Df/Wp and just aren't nearly as combat effective. 4) Tengu can remove scheme markers for a 0, where Yokai can interact on a 0. If I knew I was facing a colette or Titania, I probably would reach for the Tengu. Or if it was stake your claim, because they can leapfrog and ignore terrain, allowing one to enable the other for dropping that claim marker. But even in stake your claim, a yokai can move 18" turn 1 (double walk for 10", 2x place within 3"). Then just use his place at the end of each subsequent turn to warp to a new claim position. I guess long story short, Tengu are really good, but just out classed by the Yokai. A Yokai on the charge takes out a silurid. A tengu on the charge ties one up and gets gobbled up the following turn. Neither are stalwart, so if your opponent is scheme runner hunting, Yokai are faster and just a tiny bit tougher to take down.

So here's post two... and what I feel are some solid drops into outcasts that also work well against Levi. First off, let's address the big issue we have here... Levi is a beast in and of himself and with 3ap, and his silly Ca attack... none of our typical defensive tricks matter. If he's in range and wants your model dead, it is going to be dead. Fortunately, his attack has a , so we have some help. But he has channel... so Fortunately, it's been softened so that he can't just blister you each time. But still... respect the Channel and respect the Unmaking. Obviously, this limits how you can engage Leveticus, because you have to be careful that he's either already activated, or that you are ok with him potentially erasing that model. Especially considering the other beef he brings... So let's address the Master's I think play well into outcasts and then the models that play well into them. I'll put notes specific to Leveticus with each. Masters Shen Long - Shen is a solid drop against a lot of factions and masters. His deathball and 9 card shuffle are fantastic. Snipers with him do so much work, and he himself can be a tanky stalwart of doom. Just make sure you bring something in your crew that can dish REAL damage. Nothing's worse then staring down a model with Armor 2 and having no real way to deal with it... I'm looking at you Lazarus. Versus Levi - You can steal reactivate if Alyce isn't careful where she uses it, and you can slow and push models into bad positions. The ranged element that his list (and outcasts in general) can be heavily mitigated by the sheer amount of healing Shen can put out, as well as the fact that you can run High River Style to force in some duels successes. I'll gladly take a point of damage rather than a severe. McCabe - Fast, flexible and has austringers. This guy can bring some crazy models that have some great utility. Special shout out to Dawn Serpent and Jorogumo, both of which are very hard to shift and can put out some damage. Not to mention get reactivated. Emissary is really solid here as well, because that focus 2 with a max damage of 6 can be really important. Plus his push and fast synergizes amazingly with reactivating nimble minions. Promises helps a lot too. Dog spam can do some serious damage, as well as some serious scheming. Of course with their new upgrade that increases damage against models with upgrades... you have to be careful here. Versus Levi - Nimble sworded dogs can absolutely hunt down waifs. Just make sure McCabe can pick it back up when they die! Saber ignores armor... bye bye Lazarus. Run a Jorogumo and you can just throw a badge of speed on him. Let him nimble into charge with a glowing saber, and he can potentially one round Lazarus. As long as you hit, of course. His bite ignores armor, so with the glowing saber (i believe it's crit strike is baked in) you can kill Lazarus with two min damage attacks and one severe bite. But that is NOT easy to pull off. Just be aware that it can happen. Between that, the austringers and the threat of McCabe and whatever else he brings... you have some serious things the opponent has to respect. Asami - She has unmatched mobility, but more importantly can summon disposable minions that hit way above their weight and can get into weird places do to their mechanics. Yokai can place when flicker is reduced, get on the charge to attacks, have a plethora of triggers and just by and large are ridiculous. They can complete some schemes on their own thanks to their 0 action corrupted essence. She summons Joro, can do movement shenanigans, eats scheme markers... just all in all a really solid master, despite being card hungry. Versus Levi - The only real specific counter here is that she can easily gum up lazarus and waif's cannot hide from her if she wants to get to them. Period. She has such crazy movement, and being able to just drop a Yokai by a waif means dead waif typically. Asami has a high def, but she's a liability at WP5. Careful play and proper crew selection are going to be key here, but her ability to summon and dance around the field make up for a lot of her drawbacks. Mei Fang - Vent Steam. There's some great ranged options in Outcasts, and Vent Steam gives them all the finger. The queen of the deathball, bunch up your beaters, snap on Vent Steam and roll into the center so you can engage and destroy. Railwalk can trigger off any scrap, and there are some solid constructs that will drop scrap markers when you kill them, increasing her mobility. Just remember that she is not a heavy hitter. She's a minion hunter. Versus Levi - Vent Steam still affects Unmaking. Yes please. Levi wants scrap markers for some of his builds. Please and thank you! Mei Fang can hunt down waif's on her own once you get stuck in, and her crew with Kang can go to town on some constructs. Kang's upgrade lets him ignore armor too. Just a lot of solid options against the crew. Just remember that blasts suck when you are bunched up, so bring some extra movement help so that you can Vent twice and still keep moving up the board at a decent clip. Other Models I won't go into too much detail here, just a brief list of things I think work, and have some capability to survive in general while getting work done: Lone Swordsmen - Bulletproof 3. Remember this doesn't affect blasts. But with Recalled training, this model is a potential nightmare and is absolutely the a Rusty Alyce hunter. Black Betty - Ohagura ignores triggers. Charges without LoS. And can cheat in any damage flip except Impossible to Wound thanks to a built in flay. Move her up in heavy cover out of LoS, then have her dive in against Alyce or Ashes and Dust. Two severes later, boom goes the dynamite. She is made of paper though, so be careful. Samurai - Armor 2 and triple positives means a lot of walking fire. Alternatively, give it the health upgrade and use it as a misdirection bot. Levi ignores armor, but he's the only one I believe. Izamu - Armor 2 with a self heal and some monstrous damage potential. Same warning as above. Illuminated - Regen, Armor and a self-heal. Why thank you! Oh look, another Levi warning. Yin, the Pengalan - Built in negatives are great. Throw smoke grenades on her and laugh at their flimsy attempts to focus. (just be wary, levi can absolutely focus twice... that is a thing, yes it is) Low River Monk - new upgrade lets them heal. Lots. Basically an auto-include in my lists now. Kang - stalwart and hits like a truck. great vs constructs in general. pop him by your snipers Katanka Sniper - great support killers and harrier units. Forces your opponent to play a different game, or let them get their shots. Oiran - WP buff, a decent lure that you will probably use on your own models more than anything else and with their upgrade, they are really fast. If you can get that no showgirl trigger out, they can lock down a pretty large model. Plus they can't be charged. A lot better than you might think. Very cute with a glowing saber thanks to their obscene charge range and the potential for focused and fast. I will add any others as they come to me, but these are the ones that popped in my head to start.

That seems rather rude, sorry to hear that. I can't recall advice I've read from you I would ever label bad. TL;DR Try snipers with Shen and McCabe: katankas with Shen and Austringers with McCabe More on topic, what Ludvig said above is absolutely true, though as my meta outcast player likes to say, hard to scheme when you're dead. So this is one post of two, to address two things that I feel we have in our pocket vs outcasts. For this first post I want to dive into a sniper pro and con here, as they are kind of a go-to for a lot of 10T lists in general, and I think they are a solid bring versus Levi. But you have to understand what you are bringing them for. Math-faux is important here because in order to properly identify your target, you need to know what you can expect on average. This is a game where you have to plan for the average, and engineer the above average. You can't throw triple positives and assume you get better results; samurai are prime examples of this. And of course that damnable black joker is always waiting to laugh at your best laid plans... but you can't plan for that either, just prepare for it's possibility. We have access to not just one, but two great sniper units. We have katanka sniper in faction. We also have access to Austringers with McCabe (who I would pick as a strong drop vs. Levi, personally). But first let's look at Katanaka Snipers. Snipers Part One - Shen Long Katanaka Katanaka's put the fear in people, especially in a Shen list where you can deathball and take two, for two focused shots each. Now Levi is going to hide those waifs, so you have to go after other targets with the katanakas. He won't let you take shots easy and you don't want to overextend outside of your Shenlong bubble anyways. Also, Levi has some BEEF in his models. So let's start there. Lazarus Df 4 vs Sh 6 with Armor 2 vs 2/3/5 that's typically a straight flip from the focus. So you have to assume on average, you aren't going to do more than 1 pt of damage. If you have the severes in hand, it might not be a bad idea to throw out some hard damage. But they are probably useful elsewhere. But they absolutely can ping him down with accuracy if nothing else if he is already wounded. Rusty Alyce Df 5 vs Sh 6 with Bulletproof 1 vs 2/3/5 that's typically a straight flip from the focus. But she has a trigger to deal damage back (not baked in). Slightly better target... slightly lower wounds. But she has soulstone prevention too... This might be the place to consider using those severes, as if you get the ram trigger, you're putting 5 damage in. Ashes and Dust Df 6 vs Sh 6 2/3/5 that's typically a straight flip from the focus. Ding ding ding, target acquired. This is the guy. You have to wait until they have advanced, so putting down some covering fire with the snipers until he gets closer is probably ideal. But you can absolutely devastate Ashes and Dust with two focused sniper rounds. So obviously go for what you can kill first. On average, you are doing 4 damage, and that's barely under half wounds. So two snipers on poor damage can potentially kill A&D as long as one of them gets a critical strike trigger. Just also be aware that with some good flips, you can two-shot ashes and dust with a sniper. That's important to know. You have two severes in hand and A&D isn't by a tables edge? I would strongly consider trying to snipe him into parts. Snipers Part Two - McCabe Let's get right to it here: Austringers do not need LoS. If you want to put some concern into Levi, remove his ability to hide waifs. Librarian's are also a prime target, and much like waifs, will be hidden away. Austringers also can cause discards, which is pretty awesome. But you still have the beaters to deal with and that's where austringers fall a little short. Math-faux time... if you look at the above numbers for katanakas, you have pretty similar concerns with austringers... you are effectively pinging alyce and lazarus. But their higher Sh stat at least helps for the actual hits. The only difference is that Austringers don't have a baked in (but a higher Sh) and a slightly lower damage track, with critical strike still. So you are in ping city, which won't get anything done against the likes of Lazarus or Alyce. Thanks to McCabe, you can push them around and give them reactivate. This is pretty nice, and it's comparable to the sniper two shot from Shenlong... just different utility. I like the Shenlong two shot a bit better because it doesn't require master AP. But not needing LoS... well, that just speaks for itself. Also, something to take note of is that the Austringers have their amazing 2AP utility push and interact... so you can help disengage models or move them into position if you don't have any juicy targets. That's a huge buff over katanaka's, who if they don't have a target, simply have to move into position to find one. Closing Snipers provide some great pushback, but they don't answer the question of Lazarus or Alyce (or other stalwart heavy hitters). I think Shen and McCabe are solid drops against Levi, and I think at least one sniper is an auto-include for each. Just be aware of your targets, and don't do trash damage. Pinging into Lazarus is meaningless if they just pop him back up with self-repair and a librarian. Prioritize your targets, try to remove his support, and don't waste your cards or time on the models you can't reliably bring down. Go for that two-shot A&D if you have the cards, but make sure that it's WORTH the card investment and that it's in a favorable position for you to put that ridiculous beast down for good.

No they cannot be affected. It's as worded. It also doesn't count against upgrade slot. It's one of those weird "this doesn't count as anything until this model dies" situations. So you can have death contract on your recalled training lone swordsman. But yeah, doesn't count for terracotta, show of force, emissary, nothing... just one of those unique things.

I pinned mine to my bases, from the thorax. For now at least. And actually I travel with mine in a standard battlefoam tray (their large one). I have to put one in tilted and I think I cut out a bit of foam off a divider for a polearm, but they fit just fine. I am going to go the magnet route eventually though. Lot of people in my meta do that and it seems like a good, compact method.

Awesome, great to hear

I literally had no idea there was an issue until a couple of weeks ago, can I still contact customer service? One of my opponents pointed it out to me, haha!

updated. *MODERATORS* Is it alright to "bump" your selling threads like this? Or should i close this and repost?

I used Mr. Tannen in my Hannah/Anna core with Asami, but I don't think he's an auto-include. He can be amazing, or pretty not good. But his cooler and chatty abilities are pretty fantastic. I just find I want his points used elsewhere.

Really sorry for necro, but just a note on this Yokai thing, depending on summoning (able to interact) or not: If able to interact, you can do this: You drop a scheme marker for 1AP, 0 action to flicker and place, then drop a second marker. You still have 1AP left, which I usually use to walk into position. If I have used a yokai at flicker 2 to do this trick, then I walk to within 10 of Asami w/ HD to drop a third marker at end of turn when they flicker out. If unable to interact (summoned in at flicker 2), you can do this: Charge (if within 4" of Asami) or walk, then use 0 action to lower flicker and place, then choose to not interact (it's a may, not mandatory). Then when they flicker out at EoT, if within aura 10 of Asami w/ HD, they can drop a scheme when they flicker out. Also, remember that Corrupted Essence is an interact, so you can use it for a variety of things. I use it to claim two squatter's rights markers and is often why I hire a couple of yokai into my crew.

TL;DR - Take what you like! Definitely at least try Anna out, you might like her, but give that emissary and warrior/weasel a try too! There's a lot of great options with Asami! Just don't forget the yokai I was away for work the last couple of weeks, so I haven't been around the forums much. As @qoob pointed out, she is part of my core, so I figured I would just chime in on my two cents (I played Asami just recently in a local tourney and have been playing her exclusively this fall). Please note, I am NOT saying Mythic has it wrong. Everyone plays different and these points are very valid. Just throwing out thoughts on why I still take her in my core. This is opinion, but it's been working for me so far 1) Her CA damage is kind of a bonus. What I like is that she has a decent range mid dam 3 attack that doesn't randomize. Yes it suffers from cover, and emissaries doesn't. But her min is better, and her triggers are better (well one of them). I use this Ca to mop up damaged models that are engaged and to pop horror duels. I cannot tell you how often that swings a melee for me. Especially if I have a yokai there that I don't care about because he's going to flicker out anyways. Her 0 action is surprisingly useful and I've used it to bumper car beaters out of charge range. 2) Nefarious pact draws after Asami goes, and I want the card cycle before then. I like the Warrior and Kamataichi combo, but I find Amanjaku is really really good. The min damage of 3 after opponent scores a couple of VP throws everyone, and their walk of 6 is amazing for gumming up the works with anti charge, an anti-shooting buff and manipulative 13. Though if you don't like the amanjaku, this combo is great! Warrior's damage prevention is fantastic. And swapping around your upgrades as needed with wonder weasel is great. So yeah, definitely give this combo a go! 3) I literally never use this aspect of her. Ok, maybe once. It's cute when it goes off, but I'm in it for those horror duels. She has a 21" bubble of being able to target models and pop a 4-5" horror duel pulse (accounting for model bases). She's a henchman, and I have absolutely stoned for this trigger when my opponent was cardless. I think it might be a little unfair to say that she doesn't do it's job better than the alternative. If you want to be better than her in one category, sure. But to have her utility in all categories, you need to hire like 20ss of models. This gives its own bonuses and activation stuff... so I think the most direct comparison is really the Emissary. Do you emissary or not? I think that depends on your crew and playstyle. I play Asami as an elite crew with a few cheap minions (totem, yokai, low river monk) that summons in what she needs. For that I need more consistency and the hannah, anna combo fits the the bill. My core list is typically Hannah, Anna, Amanjaku, Chiaki, Low River Monk, two yokai and upgrades. I've been toying with pulling out the yokai for kill-y schemes or Hannah. I have found that's my biggest weakness, is that if I don't get that almighty joro on the table, I am relying on trash damage. Yokai hit way above their class, but they just aren't a heavy beater. Hannah and Anna can both pump out some really good damage too, but again, they are not beaters. Joro is. But despite how good my hands tend to be, getting those 5 cards in the deck in hand to summon a joro is just NOT reliable. I use my Hannah Anna combo to streamline summoning in general and guaranteeing I keep getting my Yokai out. So I need to adjust when there is beaters coming. Like a nekima or something. Hope that helps someone! Great job Mythic!!

PM Sent :-)

I went ghetto for transport. I have a battlefoam case I use but only three trays. So for my emissary/joro I took an old CD spindle and cut the post out, then just lined some bubble wrap inside. Works like a charm, just isn't pretty, lol.

Yokai summon in at flicker 2.

It's all part of our master plan, all the abilities from the other factions, but ten thunders infiltrated and snagged them all!

Jorogumo.

Think this was already answered, but I was a tad confused still so just looking for a clear yes or no: I played and reported for week1&2 but do to work and my own lack of ability to count, didnt play week3&4. So am I basically out of luck for my store participation prize?

Yeah this is a total bummer. I cannot wait to try out Terracotta with him...

I like bettari (aka Black Betty ) with Shen. She loves that push into place and fast. I actually am usually ok with running yu with emissary, but I tend to play shen more aggressively there with fermented river style. I also am starting to toss in a yokai or two for the mid range beats.

TL;DR misaki and mccabe are better in 10T the rest are pretty even. I agree on the general opinion of masters in 10T aren't stronger or weaker so much as different. You have to take it all in context. Each of the dual faction masters, even ones like Lucius or Tara, have pros and cons to running in each faction that tend to distill down to two specific concepts: Custom crew and upgrades. What I mean by custom crew is those "unique" models in each faction that don't really have an equivalent in other factions. You can narrow a lot of models down to simple things like utility, scheme runner, beater, etc. When you do that you have easier times matching capabilities. For instance, Lynch (just happen to know him well). Scheme running he has silurids, terror tots and insidious madness in neverborn. For 10T he has yokai, 10T bros and wandering river monks. Some of these are better than others at various things but they all fit the role of being scheme runners, solid to great. But when you look at the mysterious emissary vs the shadow emissary, you have unique effects to consider. Mysty drops hazardous and can remove conditions or summon cheap minions. Shadow grants aura effects, a push and fast and access to crew wide focus bombs. Lynch doesn't really care about mysty, he's good but none of his tricks are too dastardly, just cool. But shadow pushing huggy and giving him fast is monstrous. So 10T edges there. You can perform these kind of comparitive exercises with all our dual faction masters and at the end of the day it comes down to how you play them. Wyrd did a really good job of balancing, and as of right now I would happily play any of my 10T masters as 10T. My two exceptions to this longwinded post are McCabe and Misaki. McCabe gets access to the best stuff he wants from guild in 10T: austringers and hounds. 10T gives him just better targets for his black flash and saber, hedging him into better as a 10T. Misaki gets Yu, Shadow and misdirection in 10T... There just really isn't much contest comparitively.

I have actually. But I find that they provide so much being able to be out with flicker 5. Combining ephemeral warriors eith their 0 action to lower flick to interact they match the scheme running potential of a 10T bro. They have a more consistent 3" place, and can double move and interact. For a total of like 14" of movement (place is not completely within). 10T bros can only interact with about 9" movement. They also are far more killy than a bro, but much less stalwart. If it was a guard the stash, I probably would take the bros instead because I need staying power. Ultimately if you need utility and staying power, stick with bros. You want mobile death dealing schemers, go with Yokai. Their placement shenanigans are just so good and I find that my scheme runners tend to be gone by turn 3 or so anyways depending on my opponent, so their drawback of flickering out isn't a big deal for me.

Another list for feedback! So I have run this list a few times actually, unlike a couple of my other ones where I was looking for feedback before using it. And I must say it's a lot of fun. The core is Asa, Anna and Hannah. I rotate out the rest of the list as needed by try to always include one source of healing/condition removal, which normally ends up being a low river monk, Chiaki if I can fit her in. I was running with Tannen and he was fun and cool to have in, but I didn't feel he was "necessary" and I'd rather Chiaki over him for her utility. The upgrades on Anna and Hannah are more for Obsidian Oni heals than anything else. Drawing 9 cards every round, even pitching two of them, feels GREAT. I totally understand the Lilith, Primordial, Wings of Darkness thing now. I mean, I got it before, but doing it yourself... totally changes how amazing it is. With all the TNs on Asami and her summoning... it's SO good. Anywho. What I really like about this list so far is that it's got consistent options. Hannah can copy off Monk, Anna and Chiaki for heals, condition removal or consistent damage as needed. Swirling Damned is AMAZING on Anna, and that horror duel pulse can be devastating end of turn when cards are low in the control hand. Yokai are superstars, and yes even while hired. I often complete Convict Labor in one turn thanks to them. My summons are almost never slow now, thanks to Chiaki, Hannah and LRM. And because of the hand fixing, I am summoning much more consistently now. I have considered dropping Smoke Grenades for another SS in the cache. But I really really love smoke grenades. And Anna and Hannah tend to be fairly near to each other. That is definitely what I would call the weakness of this list... lack of a heavy melee beater/tank and it's kind of a bubble. But with the Yokai, I have some really strong offense, Anna and Hanna are doing min dam 3, and my hand fixing let's me summon in what I need to throw in my opponent's face. So far, it seems to be working alright. Still puzzling it out. If I look to replace anyone it's definitely Hannah, Anna is too useful in this list, and has proven that time and time again. She's the closest to an auto-include I have so far next to Chiaki. But that's all I got right now, lemme know what you guys think and what directions maybe I should try going in

Another thing to consider, would be the list you faced, @tox77 I have a dreamer player in my meta that will typically out activate and then drop all his summons at the end of the turn. He doesn't run the emissary, but still was dropping 2-3 models a round. Assuming he didn't have to burn his control hand earlier. There's a pro and con to dreamer going last in that type of list. So if you happen to have whatever else he was running, that would help identify specific strategies to consider.