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Awesome So if I assume 3ss, I can do: Mama Z Juju, Eternal Fiend, Hexed Among You Spawn Mother Silurid Iggy 2 Waldgeists 2 Wisps If that all works, it's a helluva cool list, and actually has game! Animal Shape/Tarot Reading would be good options based on schemes.

Okay, so they are cheaper than I thought, but can't multi-voodoo. That's good. If they were both cheap AND could multi-voodoo, the activation control would get way out of hand. I actually think this is how I'd rather have it. Avoids the annoying "outactivate and burn you to death" list that would be very, very strong otherwise!

Seems like you could do something like: Zoraida, Animal or Tarot, based on schemes Juju, Eternal Fiend, Hexed Among You Spawn Mother Iggy 2 of Silurids/Waldgeists 2 Wisps This gives you 8 models to start, +doll and a gupps per turn. Ultimately, you probably drop Juju for McTavish and something for a Doppel

Ah, that makes sense. So they're not particularly cheap. Still, I can imagine 2 being quite worthwhile. Starts to get hard to fit the Spawn Mother and Juju, however. 1 for doll, 1 for eggs. Also gives you more chances for Fickle Winds.

Good question! And how many SS are these little bundles of joy? (P.S. I LOVE the artwork!)

Still, this is amazingly good. What Rarity are they? Say they're Rare 3, that's 6 activations with 3-6 chances at sewn fate that also frees up Zoraida! And the Spawn Mother is suddenly good, since she can lay an egg and the wisp can hatch it on that same turn! How much are these magical Zoraida boosters?

Suh-weeet! Any restrictions? Range? For example, could they Animal Shape + Summon Voodoo? That would be bonkers! Thanks for the info, all! Super duper excited?

My understanding is that the Will o' Wisp buffs Zoraida, and I'm dying to know how! Anyone have the book and want to spill the beans? I would love to play Zoraida as my main again, especially since I bought a bunch of Gremlins to go with my Neverborn

Super-sad It went out of stock while I was checking out and I had to redo my order

Sorrows for scheme running? My mind is blown! Please explain!

@Joel You mentioned that Sorrows are good in GG2016. I'm super curious about this. I can't ever imagine taking them.

NBorn have one particularly awesome Henchwoman: Nekima. Bad Juju works fine with Lilith, but isn't "tier 1". Meanwhile, we have quite a few less than exciting Henchmen: Angel Eyes, Spawn Mother, Candy, Barbaros

If McTavish dies, the list folds extremely fast to Perdita. He's the threat that keeps her in check, so you're very correct on that point (I know this from losing to a different killy master, and it's clear when you consider how little Zoraida can do to enemy masters). It's pretty tricky for Austringers to safely be somewhere to attack McTavish, since the list focuses on bringing things to him rather than him moving up toward other things. It can definitely happen, but it hasn't happened yet vs. Perdita. Yes, "crushes" is a big statement We currently have two matchups that seem impossibly one-sided: McMourning vs. Pandora and Perdita vs. this flavor of Zoraida. I could definitely be overstating it, but we did try a couple games with a huge handicap (+10SS for Perdita) and they still went Zoraida's way. I would love to play you sometime! Sounds like you face legitimately strong Neverborn often (Greg's list with Lilitu for Johan is a very good list vs. Guild). As far as skill, my brother has more than his share of gamer-credentials, having been arguably the best WFB player in the Western US/Canada for a good chunk of time, along with a pile of other successes, but as we get to be old fogies, we don't put nearly as much of our brains into gaming as we used to It wouldn't be a shocker if we're missing something!

I think Joel is hinting pretty hard that this is a moot discussion until we have a bunch more time with RoF

I was being silly, so I wasn't sure if maybe you weren't sure if I was being serious I think roosters are insanely good. I'd put them up there with December Acolytes.

Frank-in-a-box (Emissary) has been a staple of my regular opponent's for a long time. It works very, very well.

Activation control is indeed very important vs. that Zoraida list, but it isn't like "out-activate it and win". It's more like "out-activate it and have a prayer". If you don't out-activate that list, you get crushed very hard (if you can't dive it). One thing to consider about dogs vs. that list is that it kills them very fast. Sonnia does indeed have game vs. this list. Sonnia has game vs. most everything. But she does run into scheme pools that are very hard for her to do, compared to other masters. Also, do you have a monster Pandora player in your meta? I'm not talking about the Box Opens cuteness, I'm talking about the truly beastly Neverborn Allstars + Voices list (Nekima and lures). That is the list that gives Sonnia the most fits, as it can actually alpha her, and if she doesn't have El Mayor, she likely gets paralyzed + incited at the start of the turn. It is still a winnable matchup for Sonia, for sure, provided the scheme pool doesn't mess Sonnia up.

Core of Zoraida is: -Zoraida, Typically Wings of Darkness and 7 SS, but not necessarily -Iggy -Doppel, Retribution's Eye optional -McTavish, Hexed Among You, Mimic's Blessing optional -Lilitu, Mimic's Blessing optional Rest of crew is a mix of Waldgeists/Gupps/Silurid based on S&S and the board. Very strong vs. other ranged crews. Sh attacks suffer tremendously vs. all the perfect camo, while voodoo doll/Iggy + ~3-6 McTavish shots can easily kill 2 models per turn. With up to 5 Ca7 Lures as well, it's really hard to stay safe vs. this crew. It often comes down to "Perdita can't kill everything nearly fast enough". The Perdita crew has a mix of all the good stuff. He usually takes Frank in a Box (that's Francisco + Emissary, which is really strong for both protecting Frank and for the Enfrente followed by 4 attacks from Frank's sword), and otherwise will be building based on the S&S. Bear in mind that he has to consider two different styles of Dreamer, 2 different styles of Lilith, and a Pandora crew that is very, very hard to beat if he doesn't build specifically for it. That's 6 crews he has to plan for (unless it is table quarters, which becomes Sonnia vs. Dreamer in a headache of a game ).

IME, Guild have a few tier 1 crews, but only a few. In the US, where I think the competitive scene is newer, even top players won't really have a lot of experience vs Sonnia/Perdita, so they can do very well. However, as someone who has played against those two more than any another masters (and my regular opponent is a top-level player), I have found that as I get better, his lack of options really hurts him. In other words, I can now predict his crews/schemes far more easily than he can predict mine. Meanwhile, my Neverborn have a huge number of extremely effective crews. I even have a tier 1 Zoraida crew that absolutely crushes Perdita. tl;dr - The Guild player's opponent only really has to consider a few strong configurations, while other factions have many many awesome builds.

Not sure if not sure if serious

My issue with roosters is that after my three get me 3 VP and deny my opponent ~2, they die 18 SS for a 5-VP swing is barely on track for a double-digit margin of victory.

Totally agree. Pick your moment to go full blast and spend the SS to make it happen.

Just got through another 2-day tournament in which Pandora proved to be off-the-chain. Played Pandora in 4 games and didn't lose a single model while only giving up 6 total VP. (The one game I went to Lilith, I dropped it 10-9 to the tournament winner in a nail-biter, but I wanted to see if I could hang without Pandora or Nekima. Apparently, almost ). Beyond just sharing that once again, Voices 'Dora with Nekima and the Neverborn Allstars seems like a NPE the more I play it, I thought I'd share a new trick I came up with in the tournament that was really, really nasty (added the tip to PMF): Incite + Mimic's Blessing/Perfect Camo is insane. I played a very good Guild player in a Reckoning / Show of Force game and brought this stuff: Nekima, Mimic's Blessing, Fears Given Form Lilitu, Mimic's Blessing Doppelganger, Retribution's Eye Incite Peacekeeper, force him to activate, and he has no viable targets what-so-ever. Didn't even need the crows/paralyze stuff. It worked so horribly well that I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't the right call for every game. Doppel has Manipulative while any other enforcers/henchmen bring Mimic's Blessing. The crew is so mobile that it can usually ensure enemies have to charge or shoot. Was just nuts how much work a single incite could do.

I'm very new to Grimlambs, coming from Notborns and Arcanists (Colette, mostly), but Ophelia and Mah happen to be the two I have the most experience with. My general take is that it is all about the terrain, as mentioned earlier. Put another way: -If Mah isn't leveraging diving charge and "Let Mah Handle This", she's not going to be as good as Ophelia.

Just a note: it's a tomes, not a mask.