MEGAHORSE

Battle report between friends on 1/24. His comments are in red. We both wanted to practice some new/old masters and just get some games in as we had done one game in two months together. We flipped, Close Deploy. We've both never done this before. I'm thinking Molly. We flip for schemes and strats Squatters Rights Breakthrough Protect Territory Plant Explosives Entourage Line in the Sand I decide against Molly last second. Despite that she would have an easier time here, I feared only bringing a couple models to squatters rights, and I was also expecting Marcus/Mei Feng, and they frighten Molly. So I went McMourning with Breakthrough revealed and Plant Explosives. He had Entourage and Breakthrough revealed. McM - 7ss cache -Plastic Surgery -Moonlighting -Decaying Aura Zombie dog Sebastian -Those are not Ours! Testing this one out. It's at least nice for pitching mid crows to get a free dog out of it, or worst case, eat a near dead model for a SS and a card -Transfusion Rafkin -Transfusion Guild Autopsy Guild Autospy (I would have gone 2x Flesh Construct, but with close deploy, their 12" range is just gravy) Flesh Construct Belle Nurse I wanted to use a high cache to save MCM/Sebby, and if I needed a better hand to pull off Transfusions/Expunges. I have alot of issues running McM except against newbies, so I figured it would work out. This was my 3rd time playing Kaeris, and I’m still learning the ins and outs of building a crew with her. If I remember right, my final crew list was: 5SS Cache Kaeris +Arcane Reservoir +Grab & Drop +Blinding Flame (The triggers for this one actually never came up: I was a bit disappointed in it) Malifaux Child The Firestarter +Warding Runes (My opponent is quite well known for taking belles in each of his lists, so this was a tech choice) Mech Rider +Imbued Energies Gunsmith Fire Gamin Rail Worker x2 My thinking was to use the rail workers to tie up his front line while my fast moving models & fliers took squat markers, while also providing ranged support. I really should have taken some condition removal in this list, as I know Rezzers fond of slow, paralyze, poison, and all that jazz. The terrain had about equal cover on both sides, but the river cutting through most of the middle was hazardous terrain and severe terrain for moving through. There was a house on one side that you could see in and out of with a second story, but that side had less actual cover than the other. It was also easier to get at some of the markers, so I decided the house would be ideal for Sebby to hide in and the easy markers would be ideal for an early rush and then just try to tarpit to keep the points. I lost the flip to deploy, so he made me choose. I made him take the River with a little less cover. I took the side with the house per above. I deployed like this: *!* is a marker bridge bridge RHINO HEAD OPEN SPACE OUT HERE River criss crossing with markers around it Rhino head 3" blocking b*!*dge *!* !*!bridge !*! HEADDDDDDDDD !*! 1" hardcover Houseeeee r H Sebby H ve Houseeeee 2"Co McM Totem Fleshie Belle Rafkin 2" sniper nest 2" Guild Autopsy 2" Nurse 2" Guild Autopsy 2" This isnt a great outline but it works. He deployed to counter mine. On my left was a Gunsmith, the Mech Rider, and a Rail Worker. Down the center, through that path he had Kaeris, the fire gamin, firestarter, and the malifaux child making sure i couldnt just walk up and claim the MiddleLeft and Middle markers, despite them being a tad bit easier to get at. A final rail worker was off to the right behind the head as well. I thought that by threatening my Right flank with the Mech Rider & Gunsmith, that I would scare Sebastian & MCM off that flank and down the middle. The rest of my crew was more centrally positioned, since Kaeris & Firestarter could quickly respond to any shenanigans. Turn 1: I played conservatively not knowing what to expect from Kaeris. Sebastian soulstones for the crow for his anti-shooty aura, since kaeris has so much shooting and he can catch the belle, fleshie, totem, nurse, and mcm with it. He walks down to the bottom of the house so he can see out both sides (but not too far out both sides) and tranfuses poison from the flesh construct to McM. The rail worker double walks up to the left marker. Guild autopsy walks up behind the 1" hard cover since she would be at a negative flip to walk and see the rail worker. Kaeris has a few things in the back line activate and pass out burning, then activates her and draw some cards, walks over and shoots my autopsy dead. Rafkin double walks next to the marker near the rhino head. Belle walks and drags the Rail worker into the water, causing it some hurt due to severe terrain. Nurse charges the flesh construct and throws 8 poison on it. Fleshie walks up near the middle marker. Fire gamin shoots and puts some hurt on it. Mech rider walks up, as does the gunsmith, and tries to shoot the flesh construct and belle to no avail. To end the turn, McM got a free push, threw some poison on the rail worker, then expunged it, granting me a flesh construct in return. The construct walked up next to the middleleft marker. The Autopsy on my left was quite a nice target. Once it dropped, I saw that the left flank was quite weak, so I started moving stuff up there. I also figured that the center was a bit of a death trap, since he could converge on the central bridge just as easily as I could. In hindsight, I committed too much stuff to the left flank, and should have either spread out more, or pulled my right flank back. You’ll see the consequences of that on Turn 2. Belles yanking stuff around is a pain, even more so when hazardous terrain is involved. End of turn 1, a Railworker died, Flesh Construct was summoned, and a Guild Autopsy was killed overall. Turn 2: Flesh Constructs claim markers and plant scheme markers on the centerline (within 6" of his deploy). Mech Rider runs up, claims the left marker, summons a fire gamin, shoots and hits McM, I spend a SS to prevent 2/4 damage, trigger to plant a scheem behind him. Gunsmith shoots my belle and hits it for 6 damage. Rafkin walks over and plants a marker just outside of the Rail workers range, and throws poison on Kaeris. Firestarter and malifaux child put some wounds on it, as does the rail worker. With the belle, I just remember I was gonna lure Rafkin out, but I didnt want my opponent to just remove the Explosives marker. I think she tried to lure the gunsmith twice and got it into the water on the second lure, dealing a few points of damage off a red joker! The nurse gives the zombie chihuahua +2 walk off a mask trigger and walks toward the marker. Kaeris deals 3 damage to the autopsy with no poison on it, and gives it Burning 2, so it's as good as dead. Sebastian walks up within 6" of the Mech Rider and transfuses poison from McM onto the rider. McM charges the gamin and two shots it, healing a few points. He then throws some poison on the Mech Rider, and Expunges it, reducing it to 2 wounds. Zombie dog ends the turn by walking up to the gunsmith, who is now near MiddleLeft marker, and gives it poison 2. I had a bit of a brain fart, and completely forgot that Plant Explosives was a thing, and that it doesn’t benefit from being revealed. When he declared that 1 scheme was unrevealed, I should have figured that’s what was coming up. I didn’t react to it at all, and gave him an easy 3 points. I also got too greedy with the Mech Rider, and should have held it back further. I wanted to lay a claim & scheme marker early to force a response, but it dropped insanely quickly, to nobody’s surprise but my own. It’s a setback, but at this point, I’m still fairly confident that I can get full points, and I just need to try denying points right now. Reactivate happens due to my opponent having no cards in hand. Hell, neither did I! autopsy does nothing of note, flesh construct from the rail worker engages the gunsmith, the other moves to the right flank to tie things up there. End of turn, Autopsy and Mech Rider fall. My right flank is weak, with just a belle and Rafkin, and his left flank has completely fallen save for an engaged Gunsmith. I flip Plant Explosives, as Firestarter, RailWorker, and Kaeris were all within 3" of Rafkin's Marker. 4-1 Turn 3: This turn I was able to get swipes in at the gunsmith, and move the flesh construct over to the right flank. Firestarter jumps over the rhino head and shoots the belle dead and flips a marker. Rafkin gets murdered by an early kaeris activation, so my right flank is suddenly exposed, save for the single construct. left flank: sebastian flips a marker, moves poison from the construct to the gunsmith, and plants a scheme marker. gunsmith murders the dog and hits the construct lightly. Nurse walks over and paralyzes the firestarter with a 13 of crows. my opponent isnt impressed, but thinks it was a hilarious play. Mcmourning runs through the severe terrain taking 2 damage (prevents two of a soulstone) and murders the gunsmith off a charge, healing back to full I believe. I pushed the flesh construct south a bit to plant a marker (mistake, forgot I needed to be at least on the line for breakthrough), and threw some poison on it to heal it when it triggers EOT. Good play all around on this turn, I think. I was personally very confident in sending the Firestarter up to deal with the belle, but the cheated 13 for the Nurse’s paralyze really set me back. Take condition removal, kids! 5-2 Turn 4: This turn my opponent came back from his losses last turn. Despite firestarter being paralyzed, my entire right flank was gone save for the flesh construct. Kaeris disengaged from it with Drag and Drop and hopped up to where I deployed my guild autopsies, planted his third breakthrough marker (so i couldnt remove the one on my left flank and prevent him from scoring), and she was in range for Entourage. So he had those points secured! Rail worker and the fleshie on the right flank slapped each other a bit but neither fell. Sebastian summons a canine remains, walks. It walks a bit. I think I had both my breakthrough markers at this point so the Flesh Construct on the left flank just walks to the right flank and flips his marker that firestarter flipped earlier. McMourning charges firestarter. Due to some cheating and damage prevention, he lives. I 0 to make the second flesh construct in the center move next to the Firestarter. After ending the turn here, I notice that my remaining Rail Worker isn’t covering the left-of-center squat marker. I knew, at this point, my priority was to either cover both of my markers, or to flip another marker so he couldn’t deny me points. I’m not sure if I could have won it, but damn it, I was going to do my best to tie. 6-3 Turn 5: I had a nuts hand from last turn I didnt expend as I didnt need to expunge anything. You actually went first this turn: on initiative flips, you flipped a 6, while I flipped lower. I used my last stone to re-flip, and got a 1. Firestarter attempts to disengage. He tries the first time, I cheated in some 13's for McMourning. After 2 AP wasted trying to do so, my opponent conceded, as I had flipped 4/5 markers for the strat at this point, and he only had a rail worker, the child, the fire gamin (too far away at this point), and Kaeris left and Kaeris couldnt move too far away from the Entourage point. 10-9 was the final total. I scored all 3 for Breakthrough and Plant, plus I had 2 markers during turns 2-5. He scored 3 from Breakthrough, 3 from Entourage, and 3 from the Strat for turns 2-4. In hindsight, I think surrounding Rafkin's marker with my unrevealed scheme wasnt the best play, as I love taking Plant Explosives, especially with McM with his 0 to walk a thing into combat and drop markers. I hoped to at least bait some points with it, like 1-2, but it ended up netting me more. I think he was also a bit too aggressive with the rider on the left flank. While he should have let it fall, running the rider up so far wasnt the best move. Same with the rail worker. Given I was playing McM, you should make me come to you, but not expose yourself unless you can counterattack and hurt me more than I hurt you. Also in hindsight, I should read cover rules better so my autospies would have deployed better for turn 1 shots without overexposing them. My opponent and I both corrected each other often on plays and rules, which is always a bonus for friendly games. I also had a takeback or two on flesh construct plays and took a while to decide on actions. McMourning is one of those masters I play slowly due to how squishy his list is, and having to be sure of every move I make. I appreciate my opponent's patience with my decisions. But overall it was a very close game the whole time. I ended the game with just MCM, Sebby, Flesh Construct x2, and Nurse on the table. He ended with just Kaeris, one last railworker, the child, a lone fire gamin in the back, and firestarter.

@jonahmaul did a hilarious topic last year on McMourning's recycling campaign on McM turning leaders into Flesh Constructs off of the trigger to Expunge, granted by the Moonlighting upgrade. How about one for Kirai and her CrowCrow trigger on her Sundering attack to summon a Gaki? How many masters can we recycle into these bloodthirsty minions this year? I dont attend tournaments (yet), so for me I'm just listing this for friendly games, with or without Assassinate in the pool. Mei Feng is my first this year!

1) To do this, activate mortimer first, dig up a corpse with his 2, then with Corpse Bloat (please get that upgrade from the generalist box!) use the 0 on that for him to suffer 3 damage to plant another corpse. You'll be able to make 2 corpses a turn with this. If your opponent kills him once he gets low on wounds, that's ok too. Then activate Nicodem. Use his 0 on Muahaha to raise mindless zombies up. Summon off of these. Each time you summon off a mindless zombie, due to Undertaker, you draw a card. So even if you burn a high card and a soulstone at times, you're refilling your hand. If you still need more cards or soulstones, take Sebastian and Those are not Ours! To eat excess mindless zombies for a soulstone and a card, Phillip and the Nanny to eat scheme markers to draw cards, but also, you should be always taking a 6-7 cache with nicodem. Summoning is what he does best, and you wont always have crows. So expect to burn stones for them. This strategy I've outlined wasnt clear to me at first as I was getting destroyed as well. But the upgrades are basically required to make Nicodem's machine really work! 2) See above. You can also use canine remains to Dig up a bone on a 2, but it needs a 9 of crows. I find it's a newbie trap. Mortimer should suffice and if he doesnt, use Crooligans from Molly's box to deploy upfield to distract your opponent. They'll eventually get killed and you'll have forward corpses. 3) I wouldnt hire punk zombies. Hire what you cant summon. The emissary is great. Toshiro too! Yin makes your Hanged summons much more powerful, Sebastian can put up an anti shooty aura if you need it and eat your mindless zombies, etc. Nicodem only really needs Mortimer, and from there you can go wherever you want to accomplish your schemes. I always try to keep my beaters and support in his bubble as protection, and for the + flip they need to connect. Punk zombies are already pretty accurate, but two positive flips on a flurry is downright insane. They'll drop 10 point models in a hurry. Use belles or doxies to move Nicodem around. His aura is so amazing. I wouldnt ever ever ever use Punks as objective runners unless you have no other choice. You can summon/hire crooligans/necropunks/canine remains to scheme run instead. 4) I keep him in the backfield until the late game, when he moves up. Basically, you want to use the Vulture to ferry corpse tokens up field. In addition, Mortimer's gun can be shot at your own troops (relenting) to get them to walk further up the board. Nicodem is all about saving AP and maximizing it, and there are alot of ways to do it, like Mortimer's gun, his ability to hand out AP, the fact that his summons never suffer from slow, etc. The reason to move mortimer upfield is to get the corpses he makes upfield faster. But he doesnt have to. Late game if he is still alive, i typically run him near the opponent's scheme runners for his chatty aura. He also isnt shabby in a fight with scheme runners either hope this helps!

I will pass on the useful information to my playgroup

Yeah i think the idea is you're stone cycling your low to highish crows into a card and a stone, while also eating ALOT of AP in the backfield. Once you get two corpses you're friggin set. Otherwise I think you keep Phillip back close enough to eat more scheme markers until he needs to move forward. I'm definitely gonna try it. I think i finally understand it

I think unless Phillip is in danger (like turn 1, when he's safe), you Datsue to plant a scheme, make a seishin, Spirit aura. Night terror moves up Other people activate. Kirai activates and kills the night terror via her summoning like he said, Onyro to do 3 wounds, then Hanged to kill it. It drops a scheme marker. Phillip goes, eats both markers. And from there you should get the crows you need. Again, like I stated, I dont doubt joe's ability, but I wonder if because he runs few stones, summons mostly hanged and mostly summons early game, he stones for his crows to hit the Hanged/Summons, and keeps high/mid crows for Sebastian to summon dogs and for the dogs to dig? I'd have to guess. Whenever I run a Sebastian-free list, Ive been taking seven stones and rarely need them all with phillip. he does amazing card cycling. This includes stones for damage prevention, Kirai's mask trigger, as a free "focus" with kirai's gun, etc.

Alot of Seamus is about setting up to take advantage of his auras and use the belles to pull your models into/out of danger and theirs into danger or off markers, while also applying slow if needed. Alot of the issue can come down to how you deployed and used the models. I tend to keep Yin back a bit when I field her, as she is a high priority target. An opposing shooty crew will attempt to take her out early, as the longer she is on the field, the more they have to fear her really mucking with their crew. Ideally you'll lure models you dont want to shoot with Seamus up next to her so they cant leave her grasp. Makes Unnerving Aura/Necrotic Preperation really fun with her. Seamus also isnt amazing at Turf War, since his gun randomizes into engagements. He's best in things like Retconnier and Headhunter. Not that he cant do it, but it means your belles and support need to be in the thick of it, and he needs to pick off their support from the sides/back. He's easy to learn, hard to master. It seems your opponent might have known you were bringing Seamus and tech'd hard against you. I cant really say, I've only played Guild once. Dont get discouraged! Most importantly

So long as he is safe from attacks from the opponent, it's not a horrible move. I prefer to summon off Seishin/Mindless Zombies/Flesh Constructs/Necropunks(Joe Wood uses a single hire of a Night Terror for turn 1 summons), who either are expendable, or heal themselves and are durable enough.

I was the same way man, 8ss+1ss for the upgrade too feels really not worthwhile, but she synergizes so well with Datsue ba, procs Malevolence, and provides an insane amount of card draw. I'm not too afriad to lose her mid to late game either, as usually by then she's made her points up in what she provides your list. I'm a huge fanboy for the model nowdays.

Yup, I think to succeed with Mcmourning you need to accept losses, even if it's your entire table. I think the GG2016 help him out immensely as he can accomplish schemes early and often, all while harassing the opponent, and eventually just being ran as a speedling bullet murdering everything in his wake until he eventually dies. Just get your points!

I'm not a huge fan of Rafkin myself, he's just a very expendable, squishy, Transfusion holder. If you were to replace him, I would run another enforcer/henchmen with Transfusion. I like running him on a flank with Autopsies as he can turn one, take some poison from an autopsy onto himself so he has a source of healing. Turn 2, I try to get an autopsy upfield as a tarpit and take its poison and throw it on an opposing model, then take my 1AP charge on it. I dont plan on trying to keep him alive, same with the autopsies. I think one of my early mistakes with McM was overvaluing these models, and keeping them a bit safe. You need them safe enough to be able to get some mileage out of the poison I think, or at least tie up your opponent's models long enough for McM and Sebby to take out some actual important opposing models. I then run McM and Sebby on the other flank with the same trick, Nurse charges McM for poison so he can get his free pushes and Sebby moves it around as needed onto Expunge targets while keeping his anti-shooty aura up. The autopsies are really hit or miss. Sh5 is average and usually you'll miss or your opponent will cheat the duel higher than youd like it to be for you to cheat it back for a paltry 1 damage and 1 poison. Then you have games like yesterday where I nailed Kaeris with 4 damage and 3 poison off two shots. I personally really despise them, but they really add some great activation control and tax the opponent's hand heavily. Then once they run out of cards, the autopsies and flesh constructs get reactivate, allowing you free reign to just put some hurt down or run schemes. I picked up cheap Bones models as proxies. The autopsies are these cowboys with pistols, Rafkin is some generic adventurer. They all look unique enough to what they need to be that my opponents dont mind. Just find it so odd they've taken so long to print these in plastic.

I would drop a Gaki. You dont need to hire them, depsite how great they can be. They cannot trigger Malevolence Plus, I think making room for Spirit Beacon is incredibly important. I also dont leave home without Phillip and the Nanny with Take Back the Night anymore. It helps relieve the strain off summoning Ikyro repeatedly and summoning Seishin. I friggin love the rules for the model, just wish the sculpt was cooler not a fan

Yeah, most of his list seemed like the usual stuff: Izamu, Datsue ba. Lost Love doesnt get alot of love on these forums, but on the Facebook Groups people seem to love him. I'm less than impressed so far. For four points his heal should be a 1/turn, no TN. Guarantee it at least for me. It makes him too swingy. Although in my last game it baited Mei Feng into my claws and I nearly assassinated her turn 1/2! I can definitely see where it is strong though. Those TN's needing crows is the big worry, although I know Joe doesnt summon too often (except Hanged, and oh man I get why). I'll play it out a few times to see how it works. It wasnt mentioned either in the cast, but Sebastian's anti-shooty aura he can put up. It's another TN that needs Crows, but he didnt mention using it. I chalk that up to common sense on our end, he's probably moving Sebby with the crew or planting schemes for Phillip to eat mostly. If it comes up to use it, maybe? I'm super happy he uses Phillip like I have been though, as a base to host Take Back the Night on. I typically get to turn 5 with Kirai with 2-4 SS left, and I summon pretty often. Love Phillip. I think it also helps that our playgroup has moved away from "enforcer/henchmen beater spam" and to actually bringing things to help accomplish schemes without just tabling the opponent, so Phillip gains his proper value.

So happy to see this. I'm also glad the "reading the cards" bit was so short, as that's my least favorite parts of podcasts (besides the talks about how good x or y is). I find it interesting Joe likes Sebastian with Kirai, given Those are not Ours! only targets undead. I dont know, I've not tried it. I shouldnt knock it. I'm just not a huge fan. So say like he says, you hire a Canine Remains. You need a 9+ of Crows to get a corpse. So you need to flip it or cheat it. Then, you need a 6 of crows or higher for the Canine Remains. Then the canine needs comes into play with Slow. The new canine cannot dig up a corpse the first turn, but if you're making the original canine remains to do so, that also needs a high crow, at least a 9, and I'd rather get an Onyro for a 9 of crows. Again, havent tried it. I could try the engine, but i cant get around the whole spending 12 soulstones (7 for Sebby, 1 for Those Are Not Ours!, and 4 for the Remains) to reclaim 3-5 soulstones over the course of a game, using mid to high crows, despite the activation advantage and the 3-5 cards it can grant you. It's one of those things I think I need to see in action to see how elegant it may be. I'm not sold on it. If I were to run that strategy, I would rather use Muhahaha on Kirai for raising zombies from corpses to be eaten by Sebastian. I practiced this much with a Mortimer in my crew, trying to use him to generate corpses for Gaki/Muahaha so I could summon off of them and use them as activation control. I ran into the issue, like I see above, where if i cant flip well, if I'm pitching a 9+ for a corpse there, then 7+ for muahaha, then 8 for datsue ba, and that's before I even summon anything. It was too card hungry. I even took Mortimer's upgrade to give him an extra cast action. So 13 points tied in that on Morty alone, so I could fresh meat up the field, which ended up not being useful since I rarely had enough undead nearby that wanted to move up since he came to me (Interference). While I dont doubt it can work, it wasnt a safe, consistent play, and had me all over the place scrambling to try to get some use out of him. I find it interesting he keeps Spirit Beacon on Datsue ba given her lack of wounds, but Kirai can heal her I guess. Despite it eating a slot, I like it on kirai due to her health pool and keeps people from targeting her too often, given she is constantly surrounded by 1-2 seishin as protection. But I think I may have to change that up! I do like the Night Terror trick for summoning. I've been using Necropunks for their built in heal for turn 1 Onyro/Drowned. Then have it leap around and plant markers for Phillip and the schemes. I will have to give that a shot... Flesh Construct too, I like, since he lasts for more summons, plants markers for me, and heals himself slowly.

Well, unless you're spamming Belles via Leveticus, or playing Seamus, you typically only take 1-2 belles or nurses, so you're not exactly fielding an army of undead prositutes Their proportions were toned down in the plastic editions of the models as well. Not sure why it's such a huge drag to you, as while I may not find a sculpt crazy amazing to paint/put together/field, but I enjoy the game and the rules of the game, and I'll use them anyway. In either case, you have many options. Alternatively, find cheap proxy models that could pass as Belles/Nurses.

So I find McMourning to be my weak spot, in that he is the one Resser master I cant make work (except against new players, which isnt fair to them). I find despite being able to out activate an opponent, or utilizing cover, most sniper models having + flips built in makes quick work of most of my models, particularly those with poison, before I can even get up the field. I also have issues with deployment (as I do with most masters). I feel I have a good grip on mechanics and what each model prefers to be doing, but I really fail to put any of that to practice. Usually I suffer turns 2-3 as a result, and begin to fight an uphill battle. So I guess my question for the group is, given any type of deployment, how do you usually run your units? Who is next to whom? If I was to define a standard list for McM that I take, it looks like this McM Chiuahua Rafkin Sebby Flesh Construct Flesh Construct Guild Autopsy Belle Nurse While sometimes I play with subbing out the second construct for another autopsy/belle. I just dont love the autospies. They never seem to land a shot on anything, and arent really worth cheating up higher. While that's good for stripping the opponent's cards and they deploy with poison so you can grab that and move it around, I'm less than impressed. I like the flesh constructs as forward distractions. It may be me just playing the list wrong. Or the master wrong. One thing I find really lacking coming from WM/H are battle reports with detailed pictures of deployment/movement, so I cant find anything substantial on my biggest weakness! Maybe it's just some giant minature gaming secret. I just really suffer from it. If anyone could give me some tips, I'd appreciate it greatly! edit: played a game the other day and redeemed myself a bit with McM, taking 2 autopsies and 1 flesh construct, per the list above. I think it's alot of activation priorities, and making sure Sebastian is well hidden and can put his anti-shooty aura up. Then just hugging terrain until you can get upfield and start murdering things. Rafkin and the Autopsies pretend to care about doing things, but are just there to eat activations and cause mayhem. Same with the Flesh constructs. Belles lure expunge targets into position.

One thing I really messed up, coming from Nicodem, is spamming summons. He spoils you to other summoners, or even masters, due to his Anti-slow bubble. It makes summoning by and large much more powerful than most of his other actions. In addition to handing out AP like candy. Kirai and Molly cant do this as efficiently. They want to be shooting to apply adversary/- on duels. Or bouncing around playing support/sniper. My next few games with Kirai I'm gonna give that a shot!

This is a mistake I made in my first game, and it comes up alot in this faction. You "assume" everything is undead, or a Spirit, etc. For example, I kept assuming Yin was a spirit, due to her model, 10T cross faction, and how she's so good with Spirit masters. Just assumed! Oops. It really forces the Kirai player to hire a specific set of models, but summon another set. It's on your opponent to catch which models can/cant summon Ikyro once you KNOW which ones can/cannot, and you can play mind games!

Another fun way to get around your opponent summoning Ikyro is to fit yourself near some models/terrain where Ikyro cant pop out. ie surround your model with other figures and terrain so when you attack your opponent's model, ikyro is unable to be summoned b2b due to the size of the 50mm base.

Haha, I was just listening to all the older schemes and stones podcasts, and you mentioned this exact bit on the Seamus cast. Crooligans work much better with Nico as forward corpse markers/scheme runners (anti-shooty aint bad either), Molly to increase black blood damage or threaten Killjoy/bete unburying/scheme running. Outside of those two, I dont care for them too much. As Fetid said, Necropunks are just too good. They're slightly easier to hit via Defensive duels, but between hard to wound, hard to kill, and the ability to regenerate 2 hp on activation makes them incredibly survivable on their own. Heck, One game with Kirai I summoned an Onyro off of one, had it activate, leap, and go off for power ritual. Having the free heal makes them incredibly versitile. With Molly/Seamus, Belles also can double as scheme runners with Sybelle around upping their walk by 1 with her aura, making them Walk 6, for only 1 point more than Canine Remains (who arent nearly as durable) Fetid also has great suggestions, OP, for core lists for Seamus/Nicodem. What I like alot about Nicodem is his ability to hire really anything he needs. He only really NEEDs Mortimer, but a totem is great too. Vulture/Graveyard Spirit make good totems, although Vulture is by and large the most universally useful one for his lists. When people say he is the most expensive resser master, they arent kidding. You can be taking things like Yin, Izamu, Carrion Emissary, rotten belles, etc just as hires, not even counting his expansive summon list! And the more of those models you have, the more options you have for accomplishing your schemes and strats.

I'm just wondering why you're going all in on killing your own models regardless of the schemes and strategies, especially in a tournament? A casting list would tear those anti-shooty auras apart.

Adran is right, and Phillip is both a horror, spirit, and undead. Superb for the crew in scheme heavy pools, as chatty, his removal of enemy sheme markers, carrying Take Back the Night, the large base for hiding Kirai/Lost Love, pretty ok melee attack that opponents typically dont see coming, as well as being undead for Ikyro make him one of my new favorite pieces with Kirai. Heck, I like him more than Datsue ba! But Datsue does more movement/model generation and is a solid beatstick against Armor heavy crews like the Arcanists tend to bring.

Oh apologies! You just had some good thoughts on her in other topics, I figured you were a good resource I also agree on Take Back the Night. I like it on Phillip since Phillip wants to be sort of near the action, removing markers and being chatty. It's an amazing upgrade, and along with his ability to eat your markers for cards, makes fulfilling the TN's of Kirai's abilities much less taxing.

1) Shears, I've yet to take these via the earlier discussion in the thread. Accomplice is pretty huge, especially once you get into the thick of things, which allows you to get immediate value out of a Swirled spirit or a summon. The beauty of both of her limited upgrades is that they're both pretty darn good. This one gives her a way to charge, melee, and stop models from disengaging with her. It's not really accurate or deadly, but it allows her, like Seamus's Slap, to have her get out of range of the model that attacked her. If this upgrade wasnt limited, I would take it in 80% of games I reckon. It's just damn good for 1ss. I should also mention I havent tried it yet due to the earlier discussion and being carless/busy with other plans has made me fall behind with Malifaux 2) Unforgiven. This one's primary effect being summoning a model up to 3" away off of the summoning battery (which given that they come in with slow, is like a psuedo Walk action. It's usefulness is hit or miss, especially on a turn with the fact that they cant charge or interact, save for great scenarios where you can position a Shikome for a 1 AP charge). On the offchance you have the crow in hand, you can spend a soulstone to remove the Slow from the summoned model. I really dont care for this trigger, much like Molly's reactivate trigger to push, it's largely a waste of a soulstone, but unlike Molly's ability, I can easily see the benefit here of stoning for the mask in a do or die scenario. I would also like to mention it doesnt bump her gun's damage per the discussion on page 1 I had with a fellow forum member, it's merely a trigger to do so. In most cases I see giving Adversary or using the Crow trigger to summon the Gaki as more important, but there will be a few scenarios where it's relevant. Not baking it in makes this upgrade much less lucrative to me, but makes Bloody Shears more tempting. I think that's solid game design, however. I'd rather have choices than a cookie cutter "Unforgiven is by and large the best all of the time". 3) Spirit Whispers. Cant take this with Kirai, had to edit my post. I was going to say, it's terrible on Kirai!! For Datsueba, it makes her worth taking. She can then make bodies off the upgrade, or punish your opponent for killing your models with Finish the Job allowing you to effortlessly to gain markers. Datsue ba also can or move your spirits around, which is particularly strong with Yin (Who I dont see people run enough with Kirai), Izamu, or Phillip, who gets to move 8" off of it! (but that's also on her card, much like Kirai, it gives her options). I commonly see people recommend Swiling spirits rather than having Datsueba move them since you can swirl further than Datsue can move them, and her summoning a Seishin, despite being much harder to pull off than Kirai, is a better use of AP. Kirai can teleport up to a spirit making walking largely bad for Kirai. Back to the upgrade, Finish the Job usually means the opponent is gonna block your LOS, or not kill them this turn if it means Breakthrough/Plant/Spring points. Phillip also likes it, as worst case he can turn those 2ap spent on the ability and his own into 2 new cards (dropping one as well, before anyone jumps on me ) 4) As BigHammer said, I prefer Spirit Beacon on Kirai for the combo wombo it provides. Biggest boons he has pointed out. Kirai has so many useful upgrades that this can be a tough slot to justify, but I find it superb. She is action starved and having more auras is never bad, especially if it means free bodies, and keeping bodies around for a very low cost. I dont want to call this an auto include, but if Assassinate is in the pool, you betcha. 5) Swirling Aether - An expensive upgrade with some very worthwhile abilities. Kirai's biggest strengths I think come from not only being a summoner, but her movement shenanigans. This gives her another onem just requiring a 5 of masks to place her b2b with a friendly Spirit within 8". Using this means you lose summoning a seishin or Absorbing a spirit this turn, but really, this is a more powerful ability much of the time if you have the cards to pull it off. ie, a seishin is a 6, this is a 5+ of masks. However, it's pretty darn easy to pull off and gets her out of bad situations. It's often taken just for that reason, similar to Sybelle to pull Molly out of bad situations or throw her upfield. Throwing Kirai upfield off of this is also more lucrative than spending a 1AP walk since you can move up to 8", and allowing her to keep up with her beaters so she can shoot, apply adversary, then have them charge in and ruin someone's day. Also allows her to discard some med-high cards to heal models up off a 1 action. I dont see the point in healing something for 1wound (outside of HTK), although there might be a situation. I've used this to heal a near dead Yin up to full health. She's an amazing Tarpit and works great with The Hanged. Did I mention I love Yin? 6) Absorb Spirit: I've yet to really utilize this as I said above: Kirai is action starved. She eventually hits a critical mass of things she can do... but more importantly, a critical mass of WHAT she wants to do. If the ability to absorb the spirits around you was a (1) instead, I would consider this more. Or if this was a 0ss upgrade. It just seems overtuned. Currently it competes with some of the best 0 actions in our faction! Phillip can also provides good card draw (especially with One with the Night), and with all of his utility, I'd rather spend 9ss on him and TBtN than this, and that's sad. The + to the damage flip is really meh. Nicodem has a similar upgrade at 2ss, and I never take either. If I have an 8+ with Kirai, that card goes a long way. edit: THIS NEEDS A TOME? REALLY? Using it for + damage flips seems so meh to me. I'd rather sac some seishin for a Drowned off of it, or summon a Seishin. Or use it to swirl. Or... etc. Not that it's not solid, but Kirai's units put out some pretty solid damage, or have + damage flips built in or off triggers to begin with. I think this may be best in a Make Them Suffer/Headhunter/Vendetta/Assassinate pool. I've seen some people take it and like it, so I'd like to hear their stories. It's just, IMO, her weakest upgrade, and it's still pretty neat. 7) Dont forget about Maniacal Laugh! I've seen some people try it as the zombies, mid to late game, become a better 0 summon than seishin for summoning bodies, activation control. In addition, when the mindless die, you can discard a card to summon your seishin off Beacon The zombies also make good targets for your opponent to shoot/smack and forget they're undead... until Ikyro pops out in their face. I hope Fetid can add some good advice here (or correct me!) as well he's the expert here on Kirai I believe! edit #2: Yin isnt a spirit. I need to read my cards, I just assumed she was! What to take away: Read the top of the card better

Definitely agree on Whispers being the better attack and shikome/Hanged being better summons. Again, I'm just spoiled by spamming punk zombies. I guess we both just misunderstood each other My issue is getting that Adversary to stick and to get mileage out of it with Molly, but it was just my first game. Like I said, not having Kirai's gun to help me apply it hurts!