Jordon

How I'd fix the Moleman. Figure out what role its trying to fill and make sure it has the tools appropriate to its cost. I think it's interesting now that we have the eagle, who really gave Marcus an option of a cheap scheme runner that he definitely needed. Largely filling the gap left by the Moleman, who really wasn't fulfilling that duty. What I dislike about the Moleman (other than they are paper thin), is how they need other models to drop scheme markers in order for their mechanic to work. Not only is it inefficient, but it's also really messy gameplay. I really dislike abilities like this that promote spamming markers with little use outside of this one ability. It makes the board needlessly messy. If the whole crew used them, then I'd be okay with that, but they don't. Since we have a fast schemer with the eagle, I'd love to see the Moleman go more into a disruption role. More annoying to deal with, rather than trying to compete with the eagle as another fast scheme runner. So in light of that direction, here are some changes I'd love to see. First change would be to give it Adaptive Evolution. Since this model is not a shared keyword, there is no excuse why it doesn't have this ability. Locking upgrades can be very detrimental to Marcus and even with AE, its not something that's going to be overly efficient on a model with such a lacklustre melee. Second change would be to replace Burrow with Fade Away (built in). You could be a little more clever and give it a unique ability called "Whack a Mole" which reduces a melee attack to 0 and buries it. The difference being that it only works on a melee attack whereas Fade Away works on all attacks but you will at least take 1 damage regardless. Third change would be to change Network of Tunnels to target any marker, not just scheme markers. Also unburying would discard said marker (so some marker removal). Forth change would be to replace Tunnelling with Dig the Trenches. This would not have the built in suit, so you'd either need the tome, or burn an upgrade via adaptive evolution. These changes would make the Moleman more of a annoyance, wasting melee attacker actions, removing enemy markers, providing some crew support. They'd still be fragile, especially to shooting and suck in melee. Seems like a decent option at 4ss and provides a unique role within the Chimera keyword. I'd still probably suggest giving them +1Wd as well

My main issue with the showgirl is their lack of internal synergy. Lure is their big draw, but what is the end goal? Once they activate they give up their only defense (manipulative). They don't have a good melee attack, so drawing them closer doesn't usually make a lot of sense. Rotten Belle's at least gain fast and they are more capable fighters (also more durable) than showgirls. They also work amazing in pairs. So unless there is a very specific scheme in which I'm trying to drag my opponent to a specific spot, why do I care about Lure? Maybe in Hoffman or Ironsides, but were playing with Colette who has no problems teleporting her and the opponent models where she needs them to be. The other thing is that they don't really play into either version of Collette or the performers at all. Maybe if they had some special way of interacting with distracted. Like the ability to burn distracted to put the opponent on negatives to Wp duels, similar to how the Belles work. Also a bit of a minor gripe, but I hate how the "expensive" gift" trigger doesn't allow you to draw a card. My opponent will NEVER use a soulstone unless he has no cards available. It doesn't even make sense thematically. My opponent is giving ME a card/soulstone as a gift. All of that, plus their utter lack of defense makes them a hard pass for me.

If I could toss in a recommendation for the Malifaux child. I know it's a 3ss significant model so it's difficult to say much. However I am continually disappointed with his "just like you" having nothing good to copy. Seems like everything has either a unreasonably high TN, lists a model by name, or is a free action. I would rather have an ability that does something consistently than something that is restricted to the point of irrelevancy.

IMO: Things that need help December: Raspy1 needs love. I think she's the weakest master in Arcanists. Raspy2 completely invalidates her. Her mechanic doesn't work and she's penalized/resource starved for anything she wants to do. Ice Dancer has no play with Colette and outside of a summon, doesn't really mesh well with Raspy Ice Gamin are horribly overshadowed by Kaltgeist. They need to lean into a different role (maybe 3ss?) Acolytes suffer badly from ice pillars and crumple in combat. They don't really have much synergy with December Hoarcat is decent summon, poor hire for Raspy and even worst for Marcus SnowStorm can she please get ice mirror? She wants to be close to her crew but her ranged attack is short and melee is wasted Others Oxfordian Mage - Doesn't know what it wants to be doing. The keyword doesn't need another ranged blaster. Needs more "element" triggers similar to M2E. Moleman - Would have been #1 if it wasn't for the new Eagles that gave Marcus cheap schemers. Still, moleman are just awful. Needs other models to work, dies in a single hit, no adaptive evolution, should have fade away. Showgirl - They don't really work with Colettes schtick. Lure is cool but they just die as a result. So fragile and slow. Vidiya Guard - Too expensive. The keyword doesn't need more beaters. Firebranded They need pyres in order to work but they take damage from burning. Things that might be too good Silent One - Way too efficient, invalidating most other in-theme healers. Kaeris2 - Probably needs a cap on the scorching radiance Hoffman2 - Pylons should be destructible (but would probably need to be easier to generate) Kang - We should remove as many of these mass spam focus abilities as possible. Things that need clarification Colette2. Decoys make my brain hurt. See the massive thread for all the reasons why. Sandeep2. Student of all is also equally confusing

I'm looking through the various healers per keyword to try and understand why Silent One is so often taken over them. Chimera: Myranda Her healing is restricted to beasts, otherwise I think you'd be seeing her way more often OOK. While I do think Myranda is a good healer, she also has many other roles so I could see why someone would look OOK for additional healing. There is also the very minor synergy with the hoarcats, who can make use of the ice pillars. Performer: Mannequin A good cheap spammable model but the healing itself is quite limited. Requiring to be within 2" and living. So Colette has some non-living options like the Coryphee/Duet who is always taken but cannot benefit from the mannequins heal. Given how fast the crew is I could see why the Mannequins, even taken in multiples, might not be able to keep up. Personally I don't use the Mannequins as dedicated healers anyway but I could see how someone would look OOK for a dedicated healer. Academic/Elemental: Ox Mage I do like their mantra and see it as their only redeemable ability. However it doesn't work on academics and the rest of their card is pretty bad. I've stopped hiring them all together and thus I'm without any sort of healing. If I did want dedicated healing I would definitely look OOK and the Silent One does look like the only viable option. M&SU: Mouse Mouse can be a decently competent healer but he suffers many of the same problems as the Mannequin, but is even more fragile. The Steamfitters can also heal technically but constructs only. For me, M&SU is such a synergistic crew that hiring OOK is tough. I'd probably just rely on Mouse since most things are bunching up anyway. I also feel like the Medical Automoton might be a better fit than a Silent One here. Foundry: Sparks? Yeah not really many options here. There are lots of constructs so Sparks is an option but honestly it's probably not the reason you're taking him. Given the crews ability to spread out, I can totally see why a Silent One could be beneficial with her long range healing. Augmented: Steamfitter/Medical Automoton I don't have as much experience with this crew but I feel like the in keyword options are good enough. Steamfitters have the holy union of minion and living, which makes them magical training worthy. Also the crew bubbles up so I don't think range is as necessary here. Maybe competitive folks may differ but I don't really see myself needing to hire Silent Ones here. Wildfire: Firebranded Personally I don't mind firebranded as healers. They can heal as a free action, which is good action economy. However it also means they can only do it once. It also requires additional resources which is an added complication. The range is pretty short, which also adds to the awkwardness. I do see their healing as a secondary role but when comparing it to the silent one, I can see how it has additional hoops to jump through. The Silent One is basically a safer more reliable version of the Firebranded who can apply her heal multiple times, whenever and wherever they need it. So when looking it seems like every keyword has some kind of option available, but in nearly all cases, has some additional restrictions that leave them unfavourably comparable to the Silent One, or locked to their specific keyword. The Silent One is the only model who can heal whatever they want and at a superior range to any other healer. So in my opinion they seem like the odd woman out. Everything else has keyword/resource/range restrictions and as long as the Silent One doesn't, she's going to be just vastly better. However I do think think there are certain in-keyword healers that simply aren't doing enough. Firebranded and Ox Mages having similar battlefield roles, but being far less reliable as two of the standout examples.

For me, it's less about OOK hate. I will admit I'm big on theme so there are certain things I just won't bring regardless of viability. To me, the issue is more with OOK dominance. Silent One's are seen everywhere. As is Mad Dog in Outcasts, as are Archivist in Explorers. Seems like every faction has their own version and I don't believe it's the intention to have single models taken so universally. I totally get why, but I feel like the game is much more interesting when there aren't as obvious of options. It's likely a subtle combination of toning down and buffing up as pointed to above.

Many may disagree but I think these ladies might need some adjusting. I see them taken OOK all the time, usually in place of other in-keyword healing options. It hurts my brain to see them constantly taken with Kaeris over Firebranded. It used to be the soul stone miner that was the the "always" pick but now I feel Silent Ones are taking over. So for me it comes down to whether they're too good all around or whether they are fine in keyword and maybe just need some restrictions to keep them a little more keyword focused. While I don't claim to be a competitive gamer, I can understand why they seem so attractive. Unlike Raspy who relies on her triggers, the Silent Ones don't really see the same restrictive grip with Ice Mirror. They can sit back, plop down pillars and support the entire crew from relative safety. Healing is universally valuable and the pillars themselves can be handy in slowing down the opposing crew. While I do think they are the MVP for Raspy, they don't seem over the top in December crew. That might be because the December keyword struggles so much, however. Raspy2 can summon them which is obviously great and doesn't help when trying to factor in balance. It's probably too early to really know their place in Raspy2 crews. So until Raspy1 gets some kind of help I'd be hesitant to call for any kind of nerf to the Silent One. What might help, however, would be to tie their healing to December models. That way Raspy crews are more or less in tact, but maybe other crews might have to think harder about their inclusion OOK. I imagine others will have strong opinions on a change like this but I'm interested in hearing other peoples thoughts. Are Silent Ones too good? Are you seeing them taken OOK often?

I’ve played the list several times now and I love it. It looks and feels very different from most other lists. The cost of running such a list was really the main complaint back in m2e. Now that we have the puppet box, it’s actually one of the cheapest lists to run. In terms of power, I think it’s totally fine. You are very restricted in your hiring pool so counter play can be tough. The riders themselves have exportable weaknesses and experienced players will know how to handle it. The list really exists as a thematic piece. I can see how Levi being the “chosen one” could eventually lead to his inclusion into the DMH club one day. I do hope that this list will live on though. Fate will always need a champion after all.

Oh nice! Well that certainly is a nice boost for a model that needs it. It's still very troubling that Raspy1 gets none of these benefits and they still remain subpar for her. However basically everything is subpar with her compared to Raspy2. Poor ice gamin. They are just horribly outdone by the Kaltgeist in just about all regards. I really hope they get some love in the next errata. I love the nightmare versions and would love to run them again.

I don't believe you can "create" markers in base contact with models. Even though you count the Kaltgeist as a corpse marker, I still don't think it stops being a model for the purposes of marker creation.

One thing that I've really come to understand about Toni is that she is 100% expendable. Injured workers act is amazing but luckily it also comes with Amina. This lets Toni shrug her responsibilities as a support piece and go full disruption. Let Amina take over as the boss and let Toni punch things. With just a little bit of adrenaline, you can turn her into a missile. With 4Ap she can likely charge into the heart of the crew turn 1. From there, if you positioned her well, she can coast by on her adrenaline and really gum up a bulk of the opponents crew. She'll almost certainly die, but usually that delay has already put the opponent so far behind that it's going to be difficult to come back from. Now obviously this is very dependant on the opponents crew. There are certain crews that would chew her up immediately, or would be able to control her to a point of irrelevance. Knowing when and where to committing her is VITAL to her success. Luckily in those situations, you can fall back on her as more of an opportunistic support fighter. Pulling out key models into the bubble of death, zipping across the board to complete a clutch scheme. She's quite flexible in what she can be doing in a given turn. With Toni2 now out, she's extremely difficult to counter, which makes both versions work even better.

I feel like one of the reasons why Raspy1 suffers in comparison is that she needs to spend resources setting up with little to no gain. For example, both Raspy2 and Sandeep2 drop ice pillars as a secondary effect on a different ability. Doing a shockwave ability AND getting a free pillar. Compared to Raspy1 who has to do each of those as separate actions. It also doesn't help that Raspy1 free action uses an ice pillar for a mediocre effect, while Raspy2 gains an ice pillar with hers. It makes Raspy2 feel like she just outright has more actions. Again that's just one issue. There are more.

I totally understand the complexity of multi keywords and duel faction models. However I also feel like it's becoming a standard for many miniature games and a valid strategy for companies to keep people investing in their products. It also cuts back on product skews which helps out retailer from what I hear. I will say that in this case, you can at least take the starter as its own self contained crew for a henchman hardcore. So while you might only need a single model, there's nothing preventing you from being able to use the rest of the box. Crossroad 7 have the same issue. If I played Guild Lucius, I would still grab that Neverborn Grim set even if I could only use Klaus. If the box is done well enough, I'll find a way to use those other models

I am really impressed with the latest Neverborn starter. All versatile, some specific keyword synergy, plus a new keyword that binds everything together with it's own unique synergy/theme. To me that is exactly how a starter should be done. So applying that same structure, I was wondering how it could be applied within Arcanists. Something that has universal appeal but also a bit of specific synergy for particular keywords. So it got me thinking of what I'd like to see. When I think about a sub theme that could work in multiple keywords (and something that we lack currently) I think of poison. Marcus has a tiny bit of poison theme but nothing that really ties it together as a viable package. Likewise Sandeep has obvious ties with the poison gamin but noticeably lacking the poison golem. Colette also used to have a bit but has seemingly moved away from it in M3E. Henchmen: Chimera, Versatile - Maybe some kind of venomoligst/botanist/antropologist. Manipulates poison and has some mutation synergy. Enforcer: Elemental, Versatile - Poison Golem. Hopefully has some marker generation of sorts to tie in better with Sandeep. Minion (2): Versatile - Alchemist. Basic condition manipulation with a bias towards poison. What would you like to see from a new Arcanist starter?

Now that we have new Sandeep in the app. I've been trying to build some lists to see what I can come up with and I keep running into the same issue. Both versions of Sandeep encourage you to run a mix of Academic and Elemental. Some argue that it skews more in favour of elemental but some of his abilities definitely warrant the inclusion of some academics. Here are my primary issues 1) Academics are too expensive. Regardless of how good or bad they are, they all seem to be at a premium cost. I want to run more academics but I just can't seem to squeeze them in. Vidiya guard are 8ss models and you can run 3 of them?! When are you ever going to run 3 of these models? Even the Ox Mages are 6ss, which when factored in with Kudra, Kandara and Vidiya guard, I just can't afford them. 2) The role of the academics. For the most part the academics are overshadowed by the elementals. Seems like they are all primarily damage focused which is something that is simply done better by the elementals. Kudra has some really decent abilities but what does she bring that I can't already get from a Golem? Vidiya Guard is again not a terrible model but is still just primarily a melee beater. Oxfordian mages are just a mess of abilities and try to do a bit of everything, while ultimately end up doing nothing. Kandara is an auto include for me. Not because she's got great abilities (which she does) but because she has both keywords and thus has a ton of utility with Sandeep. Why would I ever hire Kudra when I had Kandara at a stone cheaper, with way more synergy and utility. She actually brings something OTHER than just another beater (but she can still provide offensive support as well). Thankfully we get Banasuva for free because he is an absolute bargain for all the same reasons as Kandara. I just wish the academics could carve out more of unique role for themselves while hanging out more on that midline cost. The Elementals are either cheap or expensive and I wish that the academics were right in the middle. I would much rather see a 5ss Ox Mage, a 6ss Vidiya Guard and a 7ss Kudra. Obviously they would need to be tweaked in order for that to happen, but at least then I could fit a few of them into my lists. And I really hope Ox Mages get some kind of focus. I honestly have no idea what they are supposed to do. Has anyone been able to find a happy medium of elemental and academics?

I would agree with Ironsides. With her title she covers an absolute ton of scenarios and is difficult to counter. The list would largely depend on the opponent being faced but Amina and Fitz are almost always going to get taken. I also really enjoy gunsmiths but I know that others tend to have mixed feelings on them

I'm wondering about Mech Rider with Raspy2 since she essentially drops ice pillars now (corpses that are treated as ice pillars). It also seems like there are many instances of mutilate within the crew that Mech can give out using her Innovation trigger. Not to mention that ice mirror is still very much a thing and so card draw is always a very welcomed trait to have. With Raspy2 ability to summon, it also opens up a bit more hiring options so the 11ss cost doesn't necessarily take away from the crew as much as it would for Raspy1

Personally, I'd never hire a single cerberous. Not because they are a bad option, but mostly because hiring Myranda is almost always going to be a better idea. Raspy is the only other master who gains access to beasts. Myranda makes those beasts so much better. She can move/charge Hoarcats, which allows them to keep their manipulative. More importantly, she can give herself a mutation and on the following turn, shape change into a better version of a Cerberous. Defense is definitely a big problem for the Cerberous and the mutations help address that. You also gain the versatility of changing into another Blessed if your hired one died (again a better version of it). So not only do you get your big cat, but you actually can benefit from some synergy with Myranda that you wouldn't otherwise have by just hiring a cerberous.

Who would have predicted that we'd have not one, but two different puppet versions of hooded rider? While I do love this box. I was sort of hoping for the next Nightmare box to be an all motorcycle (see nightmare McCabe) version as a way to introduce all four riders in a single box.

Angelica also has a nifty trigger on her shockwave to drop a scheme marker up to 10" away. The other thing to do with her is camp her next to a distracted model, allow them to waist an attack on her, then use her Df trigger to shoot them across the board. It's not the most reliable but it can really make the opponent think twice. You can take soul stone cache to make both of these easier to use. The Duet is probably the most complex non-master model in the game so don't worry if it takes a few games to really understand how it works. Basically you're exploiting the replace rules to get a ton of AP, activation control, and hopefully focus. When used properly, they are really efficient models. Cassandra is very versatile. She can be a real challenge to deal with if you stack her finesse with distracted. Breath of Fire is a really good attack, and especially so on Cassandra who can nimble, focus and then use it to cheat in those moderate/severe cards. Upstage has way too many possible uses to list here but can be a total clutch ability. She's very reasonably priced for the amount of utility you get and likely one of the best henchmen in the whole faction.

I find SnowStorm to be pretty meh with Raspy1. They're mostly there as a Golem/Raspi taxi. I still find it inexplicable that they cannot use ice mirror given the Snow part of Snowstorm. I will say that they at least look a lot better with Raspy2. Easily able to hand out shielded to the whole team since all they do is push friendly models around. I still haven't used Kaltgeist yet but I honestly don't see how they aren't an auto include for either version of Raspy. Even Raspy1 gets a significant boost with these guys IMO.

Bingo! And it’s more of a crew issue than specifically a Acolyte one. Additionally, I find them to lack a real purpose in the list. Silent Ones can do ranged damage better, for cheaper, and bring a ton of additional utility. Acolytes don’t scheme, can’t take a hit, and lack any meaningful synergy within the crew.

Even if it does rule to be per tome discard, it's not all that likely to heal in any extreme amount. Just to see, I loaded up Vassal and I tried this ability 20 times just to see. I did it in groupings of 5 where I changed my starting hand with each new grouping. What I found was about 50% of time I pulled 2 tomes. A few times I drew three and a few times I drew one. I only drew 4 once and zero also once. So if your not cheating in a tome, you're likely healing two damage. If you were really concerned about getting a rare spike, then simply capping it 4 would solve the issue. It's highly unlikely you'd ever get any more than that anyway.

Cool, sounds like I had it totally wrong then 😅 Thanks for the clarification!

I totally did not pickup on the Breachburnt wording to heal per suit discarded. I read it as a single discard (from the fate deck) and also if you cheated with your reconfigure suit. So at most it was 2 healing from Calculate. However I now see how others may interpret it being pre reconfigure suit discarded. I have no idea where the intent would be in this instance. She does only have 9wds, which is extremely low. This would give some credence to having a potential super heal. However she also has a get out of jail free card with her Demise, so I'm not sure if that justifies her 9wds (plus smaller heals). Also a bit unrelated to the current discussion, but I find Harness the Ley Line a bit confusing. I'd like some confirmation. Only works on non actions, so she cannot use it defensively and can only use it offensively via Split Across the Worlds. It still only prompts her reconfigure only if she cheats. However any suit would get treated as a +2 tome. So for a simple duel benefitting from this, she would naturally get +2 to any stat. So her Converging Ley Line free action would need a 3 and Calculate would need a 4. However she would auto pass if she cheats with any card (minus BJ). Cheated cards benefitting from Harness become essentially 11 (9 +2) although the +2 is mostly irrelevant since your hitting your TN with that 9 anyway. Split Across Worlds being the only potential action to actually benefit from the reconfigure 9+2. Deep Discovery would still get the +2 if she's on the centre line, essentially making any card on the opponents discard pile an minimum 11