edonil Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Alright, so, what's the best way to run a Kirai crew? With so many abilities that she has to change cheap spirits into better ones, it almost seems like it'd be best to take 5 Seishin, Datsue-Ba and maybe one or two other models, and build your Crew during the game as necessary, rather than show up with Onryo, Gaki and Shikome in your list...or is this a really risky plan that's really a horrible idea in disguise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 No, Build your starting crew for utility and then bring in normal damage models into play as the game goes on. 5 Seishin + Lost Love is my core, and then I will slot in things like Hanged, Insidious Madnesses, Jack Daw and Datsu-ba depending on the strategy. Then pull in Onryo and Gaki as the game goes on. Shikome isn't an awful starting model if you need to kill something very early on, it's more effective to swirl it in than to summon a lot of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 As a related question, how useful is Bete Noire with her? I'm planning on picking her up just because I like the model, but does she have any synergy with Kirai at all, or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Personaly i like to load up on lots of low ss cost models. Lots of the little things work well for kirai. That being said for all malifaux games it depends on the goals you have for the game. The best thing i can recomend for any player is try out lots of models and find what wotks well for you given the mission at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightjar Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't have as much experience as others, but I agree with tadaka and Ratty. I generally start with Kirai, Lost Love, 4 - 5 Seishin, and then fill out the rest of my points with Datsue-Ba, Hanged, Jack Daw, or Onryo. I know a lot of people don't like taking Onryo, preferring to summon them, but against some opponents, like Guild, I've found that having some Onryo around to start with and then summoning Shikome or Ikiryo directly onto enemy models in game (using Don't Blink for the extra range if necessary) works pretty well too. Especially if you don't get the cards you need to heal Kirai effectively (which happened to me a couple games ago...) I like the Onryo against Guild or other ranged enemies because of their ability to hand out Immediate Revenge 1 and also their spell that prevents enemies from targeting spirits with spells, charges, or ranged attacks. I haven't used Bete Noire with Kirai yet, so I can't say from experience whether she has any synergy or not. Based on stats, I don't think she has much at all. She's not a spirit, so a lot of the movement and healing advantages of Kirai's crew are wasted on Bete, and since Kirai's minions aren't living or undead, their deaths won't activate Drawn to Death, which will make her harder to keep in play. It's really too bad, since thematically she'd be a great fit for Kirai... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 and since Kirai's minions aren't living or undead, their deaths won't activate Drawn to Death, which will make her harder to keep in play. This is the main reason I wouldn't use her. She relies to much on being drawn to your own models deaths, as this means the opponent doesn't get a chance to kill her before you get to activate with her.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightjar Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Having considered it, though, Lost Love can turn Bete into a spirit, which might be interesting. I'm sure someone who's tried it can say more about that. I imagine that being able to swirl Bete around the battlefield could be pretty effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrulz55 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 i find bringing a friekorps librarian is essential when i play as it heals kirai, nets you an extra card, and better your chances to get your spells off without cheating with her +flip on cast buff. also you could have fun and bring big scarry models like the dead rider or a rogue necromancy and turn em into a spirit but its unlikely as you need a high crow to do it and cant use ss to do it. but you could bring bettie and a dog, chop up the dog with datsue ba's spell to turn it into a gaki or onryo (be sure to focus cast to better get her trigger and cheat dmg as the dog is hard to wound) summon bettie an have the LL turn her into a spirit and let the shenanigans begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 i find bringing a friekorps librarian is essential when i play as it heals kirai, nets you an extra card, and better your chances to get your spells off without cheating with her +flip on cast buff. also you could have fun and bring big scarry models like the dead rider or a rogue necromancy and turn em into a spirit but its unlikely as you need a high crow to do it and cant use ss to do it. but you could bring bettie and a dog, chop up the dog with datsue ba's spell to turn it into a gaki or onryo (be sure to focus cast to better get her trigger and cheat dmg as the dog is hard to wound) summon bettie an have the LL turn her into a spirit and let the shenanigans begin. Oh, I like that plan...that seems like a great idea, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh, I like that plan...that seems like a great idea, actually. It's not bad at all. You have the issue of the Librarian keeping up. Howfully you can get a high crow turn 1 so you can make her a spirit. The other issue is you can't take Jack with her .. saying that I think it would be a great swap if you know you are going against a swarm army. Where increased healing is going to allow you to summon models to out swarm them, and Jacks ability to help you assassinate is less important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightjar Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 saying that I think it would be a great swap if you know you are going against a swarm army. Where increased healing is going to allow you to summon models to out swarm them, and Jacks ability to help you assassinate is less important. Ratty makes a good point. The main times I've had trouble with Kirai is when the cards have worked against me in terms of keeping her healed up for summoning. I've never tried the Librarian, but more healing for Kirai could really help her maintain her numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrulz55 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 wk 5 and spell rg of 8/10 i cant remember wich she manages to keep up but then again i dont move to far with kirai as i summon alot and tend to only venture out when you wanna drop a frothing mad shikome or an ikiryo on somebody and then swirling spirtis back to a sheshin (usually get off into the spirit world on datsue ba or a hanged, but if i dont then i onryo spam by summoning ikiryo and turning it into an onryo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ya I never have an issue with keeping pace with the librarian as my kirai rarely moves. But when she does its not far, maybe just far enough to slap an ikiryo or shikome in someones face but that's about it. Like dakrulz said, the librarian is a must IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 OK different play styles.. I'm off all over the board... It's not unknown for me to circle the board two or three times in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFriday13 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I agree that the Librarian is a great choice with LL. Also the Dead Rider or another powerful minion. I really like the Rider b/c he can heal himself, which is just awesome. @Ratty: can you not legally take both her and Jack? B/c Kirai doesn't add Jack as a merc, but I'm not sure on the ruling there vs. the Special Forces. It is a lot of points, but I didn't think it was illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Just thinking of terms of bringing in Bete and making her useful (I love the model, intend to pick her up, so I'll find some use for the lady) what if I grabbed a Desperate Mercenary, and killed it turn one, then used the Lost Love ability to turn Bete into a Spirit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaff Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 According to Ratty's Crew builder, you can legally have both Jack Daw and the Librarian. Jack Daw gets hired as a spirit, not a merc, so, he's under minion selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) According to Ratty's Crew builder, you can legally have both Jack Daw and the Librarian. Jack Daw gets hired as a spirit, not a merc, so, he's under minion selection. Not any more I believe. They changed this in the new Rules Manual. Models with the Mercenary Trait that are hired out of faction by other means now count towards the Mercenary Limit, though you might not have to pay the extra Soulstones. Edited July 14, 2011 by Ratty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaff Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Not any more I believe. They changed this in the new Rules Manual. Models with the Mercenary Trait that are hired out of faction by other means now count towards the Mercenary Limit, though you might not have to pay the extra Soulstones. Lame. Guess I have an old version! Thanks for the clarification though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFriday13 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 The only question I would have about turning Bete into a spirit is whether or not that ability would persist through her burying herself. I would think it does, but I would also want a badge decision on the matter before trying it in a tourney. As for the merc thing... outcasts in general have a lot of sticky situations; it's because everyone knows that they are the best faction and without all of those rules no one could beat them! :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 The problem with Bete in a Kirai crew isn't that she isn't a spirit. It is that in the game currently you cannot count on playing against living or undead models, or at least, models enough to possibly get multiple situations to bring Bete out. Generally, nothing in a Kirai crew can create the situation for Bete's popping out, and if the opponent doesn't bring a sizable number of living or undead you've basically wasted 9 SS on her. With the crews that are very popular right now you see a large number or constructs, nightmares, spirits, and other non-qualifying models. So even if you brought her out via the death of your desperate merc, and then made her a spirit, she's still a 4 wound model that will not be coming back into play as soon as she dies. I love the idea just like you, and I toyed with the idea of using her as well. However, until more actual living or undead models get used for other factions I tend to leave Bete at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystacks Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 It is a shame. I quite like playing with a punk zombie. i agree about bette, she is awesome but its too hard to get her in for long enough, and keep her coming. I would say the spirit stays as its till end of encounter and I cant see why buried would change that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 What do you guys think of snowstorm with kirai. I see some synergy but I wonder if anybody tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 What do you guys think of snowstorm with kirai. I see some synergy but I wonder if anybody tried it. Now it's got 8 wounds I think it's very viable.. before I was a bit apprehensive as quite a few of it's abilities are linked to models you can't take.. but with 8Wds and the ability to create Ice Wall I think it might be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 On strategy notes about Kirai, I agree that snowstorm looks much more viable now that they have 8 wounds. I'm not completely sold on the idea, but I'd give it a try. As a side note on Kirai, I'm facing a Dreamer player soon for a league match vs. Kirai and the fates were not kind in handing out strategies. Dreamer got Deliver a message and Kirai got Line in the sand. Any thoughts on what to bring to such a pairing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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