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About chris_havoc

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  • Birthday 10/25/1988

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  1. Hard Cover, Movement Triggers, Timing, Damage Flip

    I was so excited that you found the answer I forgot the wording of the Trigger. Seems only in a case of wording like this would this take place? After failing before damaging seems kinda contradictory reading the sequence but Triggers specifically override other rules, right?
  2. Hard Cover, Movement Triggers, Timing, Damage Flip

    Sorry I can't read. Anyway, there is genuinely a dispute in my meta so thought bringing it up here might help. I think the issue raises a lot of weird interactions that are proof enough that one should go with RAI in this situation. That is the gist of what I am getting here.
  3. Hard Cover, Movement Triggers, Timing, Damage Flip

    The wording makes it clear that cover is passive or automatic considerations like determining LoS for an Aura. In other words, an Aura is triggered whenever LoS in relation to a target is an issue not only at the point of declaration. Thus LoS is passive and automatic. P.35: "It is during this step that the model declares a target. Unless specified by the Action, the target must be in range, and the model must have Line of Sight to the target." "Any Action that has a target will also require that the acting model is able to see the target. A model’s Line of Sight (LoS) represents what it can see on the table. A model either has LoS, or it does not (No LoS)" Targeting requires Line of Sight not the other way around. It's a condition for targeting and so a passive/general state between models. So, because cover is tied to LoS in its definition and not only when targeting it would seem that you don't check it once, it must be considered at every step in the sequence of the attack. Thus it's not so much an issue of cover but LoS and declaring targets. So the Stalker could "Butterfly Jump itself" in the RAW. My point is: 1. Because Triggers like Butterfly jump say this explicitly, it does not mean that this is not the case implicitly. Though it does highlight intention and so does the passage you point to on P.40 but it remains inexplicit. 2. Declaring a target does not make it explicit that the LoS to the target at this stage is the LoS that should be taken into consideration for the remainder of the Action. 3. LoS is not the cause of the issue, it should remain a passive/automatic thing otherwise Auras and Pulses cease to function among other things. 4. Declaration of a target SHOULD but DOESN'T say explicitly that the range and LoS drawn at this point in time are the only ones considered for the Attack Action sequence unless stated otherwise (a la Butterfly Jump). EDIT: Please prove me wrong. I am playing devil's advocate in this situation because I am worried it may be exploited and it's quite unintuitive.
  4. Hard Cover, Movement Triggers, Timing, Damage Flip

    I think the language is pretty clear (or unclear if this wasn't the intention). "when any LoS line between the Attacking model and the target model can be drawn" There is no specified timing, so it seems that cover is not triggered upon targeting but throughout the action. So, at every stage of an Attack Action, if cover could be applied, it should be. So it seems like the Stalker would get cover after being shot.
  5. Hi all, Tried to find a thread addressing this directly but couldn't. The Scenario: A Witchling Stalker is targeted by a Attack, Triggers Drawn to Pain, and is pushed into Hard Cover. Timing wise, is the damage flip affected by the new LoS drawn? Rules: Cover: "A model will gain the benefits of cover from a () Attack when any LoS line between the Attacking model and the target model can be drawn through any terrain with the soft or hard cover traits that is within 1” of the target model. Terrain with the soft cover trait will grant soft cover which imposes a to the Attack flip of any () Attack Actions Terrain with the hard cover trait will grant hard cover which imposes a to the Attack and damage flip of any () Attack Actions." Drawn to Pain: "After failing an opposed Df duel but before suffering damage, push this model 4” towards the Attacker." Interpretation: RAW: It seems relatively clear that the Push into cover will result in the Witchling Stalker benefiting from Hard Cover for the damage flip. At least as far as the rules listed above suggest. Is this correct? RAI: It seems strange that this would be the case as the Attack has already hit the model and cover seems like it should apply at the point of targeting. Now I am aware that RAW vs. RAI, the first should always be given precedence but I wonder if this is an oversight given how unintuitive it feels.
  6. Help with the Viks

    Can you not take out the Student with range to prevent the df boost? Vik of Ashes has a lower defense too maybe try the shooting against them? Not just to kill them but if you get cards down Vik of Blood doesn't have the positives. The problem isn't always the obvious threat either (as I'm sure you know) so I would suggest taking your master and shoving down the Viks' face. Mei Feng and Shenlong are both crazy quick and can accomplish this. Also, Misdirection really works if you go all in against hard hitters like the viks. Especially of you charge first because cards usually get used up. Go for the Vik of Ashes because if she gets moved out the way the Student has to be there and she's no longer in 2" of things for the Df/Ml boost even if the student isn't there. I must say Low River Shenlog is especially good with Misdirection with all that defensive. He can also potentially steal her fast but that is corner case at best. But a good old Recalled Training and you have fair odds odds of surviving (it improves your prevention flips too which I always forget), can heal the next turn, you're a single target so no whirlwind, and any additional hitting help runs the risk of Misdirection. Misaki is obviously first prize for this tactic with her auto-Decapitate if you burn your last stone for a Crow and she gains double positives that turn too (on basically all things) with Recalled Training. Shenlong is a close second for the models you have though. P.S. Being this aggressive is not always a tactic that works for everyone and is rather high risk so if things fluff there's trouble but with all the positives fluffing is minimized. Also you'd obviously build for the crew. I like taking Killjoy with Misaki so after she's finally put down out pops Killjoy. Not sure he'd necessarily work for Shenlong but the tactic is effective against a lot of crews. Not sure about Levi (I don't face him often) but Jack Daw does not like multiple positives on Attack and Damage in his face.
  7. Ohaguro Bettari - Free Charge Out-of-Activation

    Ah, see I searched "Once" not "One"
  8. Hey, So, there was a weird interaction in a game I had with Asami the other day against Lucius and The Tooth. The Tooth did her Challenge of Summer against Ohaguro and so at the end of the push she got to hit The Tooth. Fortunately, I had an 11 of 's in hand and hit Ohaguro's Ploughed Over Trigger so I pushed The Tooth away and charged The Claw, killing him dead with a Red Joker on several 's. The thing is, is it legal to Trigger Ploughed Over out of Ohaguro's Activation if the Trigger is only allowed to occur once per Activation? In other words, does the once per Activation restriction mean that Ohaguro can only perform the Trigger in her Activation (though it doesn't specify that it must be her Activation)? Or, does this mean that she can declare it during another model's Activation if an Ml Action is caused for whatever reason? So I was able to declare Ploughed Over against The Tooth but would not have been able to declare it against The Claw as it was still, technically, during The Tooth's Activation? Obviously, we played it the first way but only after rolling a dice to decide which way. Still, we'd like it resolved finally! Given this issue occurring with Yasunori and Bloodwretches to a degree, should this be FAQ'd for clarity? Thanks in advance! Chris.
  9. Schemes & Stones Master Spotlight Asami

    You re correct. Still auto-heal is pretty cool.
  10. Schemes & Stones Master Spotlight Asami

    Not been able to play her yet but it seems like Bettari and Ama will work well together as the first can give the other all her needed suits.
  11. Dead of Winter and multiple sources of damage

    Thanks, thought so.
  12. Hey guys, Quick question. I played against Pandora and her Death-By-A-Thousand-Cuts Misery ability with Sorrows. What was curious is that, if a model fails a duel in range of more than model with Misery, "it would suffer 1 damage from each model with the Misery Ability separately" (Bullet 105, Jan 2017 FAQ). Now, does this mean that Tara's new Upgrade Ability, The World is Empty, be able to discard a card to reduce damage by 1 for each instance of Misery damage? If the ability reads: "When a friendly Void model within 6 of this model suffers damage, this model may discard a card to reduce that damage by exactly 1 (to a minimum of 0)" I know the effectiveness or merit of this is debatable, I just want to know if it IS possible. Thanks in advance.
  13. Anyone had much success with Hayreddin?

    What @Fetid Strumpet and @Greebo have said is largely how I feel about him. I don't have Reva but I can certainly see the appeal to use him in her lists. You could even keep him relatively close by to use her push and Trigger to use him as a Corpse Marker. It seems like a reliably good combo to me, though he can die quite easily if your opponent flips well that's why I also really like Necrotic Preparation on him, make the opponent pay for taking him out if you do get unlucky with his Df 7. I use him with Tara and the Nothing Beast (and/or Scion), it makes the latter's damage potential a real threat and the 3" engagement range usually keeps it out of Hayreddin's Aura. I'd imagine the same is true for other low minimum damage monsters out there as has been mentioned, thinking Hanged might like him around too. He also works well with Tara discarding cards along with the Wretches and Nothing Beast's high Df it makes for a pretty resilient crew. I've found him very useful as a gambit, he is a high threat and so is good at drawing fire at a high cost with Necrotic Preparation and if he doesn't draw fire, there's a high cost with his Aura. The real trick to him is positioning, as has been said, but once he's got some Vitality going that's not too hard. That he's only 7/8ss makes it not a huge loss if the gambit fails and he dies but high risk if you place him poorly.
  14. A competitive Mister Lynch

    Lynch works pretty great with whatever you feel like playing so you can go for a crew with very few having to delve into the faction as a whole or go really deep, both to great effect. I originally ran him very thematic with: If you don't have access to a lot of the faction Lynch: Woke Up With a Hand, Expert Cheater, and Endless Hunger (Expert Cheater is just fun and Squeal is good) Darkness: Broken Promises, Addict (Broken Promises makes enemies get 's to everything targeting him including Horror, so he is basically untouchable for a whole Turn) 2 x Illuminated (They hit so hard with Brilliance and live even harder generally) 2 x Beckoners (Wk once and Lure and Illuminated forward without losing any movement is pretty great, also they give out Brilliance) 2 x Depleted (tar pit and speedy with other Brilliance models) OR 2 x Tengu (for running Schemes) OR Graves (for murderising) I ran him as a hand cycling master recently too and it was very effective: Only if you have access to a lot of the faction Lynch: Woke Up With a Hand, Wanna See A Trick, and Endless Hunger (Lynch is very good at giving a single model Brilliance, so if you get aces in hand 52 Pickup is very worthwhile) Darkness: Broken Promises, and Death Contract (same but cheaper and with consequences for killing him) Ototo: Call the Thunder, and Recalled Training (He has Flurry to discard a Ace which is great and he can fish for Aces with his heal) Samurai: Favour of Jigoku, and False Target ( is pretty great for getting those Aces in hand, and hitting those makes that happen often) 2 x Rail Workers (They have a discard so work with Aces, and can target friendlies with their (0) that does no damage to fish for Aces) 2 x 10T Brothers (These guys work really well because their (0) needs Aces, they are especially great at Ace fishing if you have an Ace of because you can draw two cards and discard an Ace, they are also great targets for the Rail Workers' as they can potentially hit and go Defensive
  15. Misaki & Wokou Raiders

    Forums still as insightful as ever.