So, The Dreamer, What do we think?

[SilverBullet]

So what are people's thoughts on the current rendition of Dreamer? What do we think is going to work well in his crew? Which of the limited upgrades are people taking? What is the thought on what will be in his new plastic box? Dreamer, Chompy, 3 Daydreams, 3 Stitched?

I'm a big fan of the current rendition of the dreamer. I think he is really flexible and has a lot of potential. He is my crew for ToMB (Tale of Malifaux Bloggers for those who don't know) and I cannot wait to get him on the table.

[Drix]

Given the sheer size of some of the newer boxes, I wouldn't be surprised if his kit was

 

Dreamer, Chompy, Coppelius, 2 Stiched, 3 Daydreams, and 3 Alps. That's 11 models, but if you look at Ramos' box or the Leveticus art, that's not too far out o the realm of possibility. 

[Tuttleboy]

I'm pretty much in love with the finished Dreamer and think that you don't need to pick a limited upgrade until you see what the Strategy and Scheme pool is. The crew is so flexible and the 2 limited upgrades add even more flexibility to the crew. I think you've got the crew box for the most part, maybe Coppelius will be there as well, but I kinda doubt it.

Make sure to post links to your ToMB posts.

[NeverEnding]

I just coached a game with a Dreamer crew because for a new player that's a lot to wrap your head around and ohhh my gosh the new dreamer is scary and really interesting to see get rolling! It was pretty awesome watching Teddy drag Lynch into 3 daydreams and LCB with his trigger and absolutely demolish him from there. I'm kind of scared now XD 

[SilverBullet]

What are people's opinions of running vasilisa with summoner dreamer, weaver widow, stitched, wicked dolls and teddy? That's quite a bit of healing

[Tuttleboy]

I've used Widow in his crew a lot and feel she is a great choice for any Dreamer build, especially once you've got a few web markets out against crews that aren't immune to Horror Duels. I haven't tried adding more puppets and Vasalisa to the crew as I generally add as many nightmares as possible because they automatically have synergy with the base crew. If you try it post somewhere on the boards how it works out for you.

[Tiaden]

Jep. I'm also very excited about the new Dreamer and hope I'm more capable of playing him than last edition. I'm still a bit surprised he kept his Unhinge trigger. Sure it only paralyses Wp4 models, but with the Daydreams Disturbing Whispers Aura it should be easy to get that Wp down to 4. (Or with the Widow Weavers Web Marker) If the enemy has only Wp 5 then 1 Daydream that accompanies the Dreamer is even enough. And you can risk your Daydreams because they are so easy to summon back and summoning is one of the things you need to do to get Chompy out. Even if you don't stone for the suit and your target has to cheat first its not enough for him to cheat in a region so that the damage flip will remain on a negative twists. He really wants you to miss because he can't be sure that you don't have that 10+crow on your hand. Well and if he doesn't cheat at all, then a moderate crow might already be enough. Although you need to be aware of soulstone users and their damage prevention flips.

[ehren37]

Given the sheer size of some of the newer boxes, I wouldn't be surprised if his kit was

 

Dreamer, Chompy, Coppelius, 2 Stiched, 3 Daydreams, and 3 Alps. That's 11 models, but if you look at Ramos' box or the Leveticus art, that's not too far out o the realm of possibility. 

I think it will more likely mirror Raspy. Chompy, Dreamer, 3 Daydreams and Coppelius. 2 mediums, 3 smalls and a large. Possibly an extra alp or two (and a separate box for them). Either way, I dont see stitched in there (or at least, only in there) given they fit in multiple themes (puppets, darkened, nightmare). 

 

Good news is the art more closely resembles the nightmare version, and plastic allows for bigger sculpts (see the ice golem for example). I was never a fan of the original daydreams. looking forward to picking this one up.

[ehren37]

Jep. I'm also very excited about the new Dreamer and hope I'm more capable of playing him than last edition. I'm still a bit surprised he kept his Unhinge trigger. Sure it only paralyses Wp4 models, but with the Daydreams Disturbing Whispers Aura it should be easy to get that Wp down to 4. (Or with the Widow Weavers Web Marker) If the enemy has only Wp 5 then 1 Daydream that accompanies the Dreamer is even enough. And you can risk your Daydreams because they are so easy to summon back and summoning is one of the things you need to do to get Chompy out. Even if you don't stone for the suit and your target has to cheat first its not enough for him to cheat in a region so that the damage flip will remain on a negative twists. He really wants you to miss because he can't be sure that you don't have that 10+crow on your hand. Well and if he doesn't cheat at all, then a moderate crow might already be enough. Although you need to be aware of soulstone users and their damage prevention flips.

Iggy's pitch a fit is -2 on unactivated models.  So paralyze WP 6, which should get most models in the game. Insidious Madness also tags models it hits with its attack with an additional -1. 

[SilverBullet]

The problem I have with that is almost every other box has 3 bog standard significant models. 3 death marshals, 3 witchlings, 3 Ronin, 3 ice gamin. With your suggestion the dreamer would not have that (in fact he would only have 2 significant models on the board at a time). The only 4-6 stone significant nightmares are stitched and insidious madness. And he had stitched in his box before.

[ehren37]

True, but the boxes aren't really balanced by points, number significant models, etc. The preview art for Kira has a whopping 4 points worth of models in it lol. I wouldnt really complain about more in his box. 

Really, the breakdown of the gremlin boxes will be our best clue, since they are also small units.

[SilverBullet]

Really I have the Levi art in mind when I think of the dreamer box as he is another master with multiple totems.

[SilverBullet]

Anyways why guess what we don't know, what do people run with dreamer?

[Wiedzmin]

I try to play new Dreamer and it´s awesome! In first turn you can summon Lelu and Lilitu and they have at the end of turn full wounds (regeneration and dreamer´s aura).

And Stitched are very useful. But I think, that maybe they will get in new errata Rare 3. They are very strong in big groups.

[Tiaden]

... And Stitched are very useful. But I think, that maybe they will get in new errata Rare 3. They are very strong in big groups.

 

Oh thats interesting. Why do you think they are strong in groups? I would tend to use their attack skill only when I have a high card to cheat which makes them quite ressource intensive. I just hate wounding myself with my own AP. But being ressource intensive prohibits large groups. So I really would like to know your tactic, since I have a couple of them lying around here.

[Wiedzmin]

Beacuse you maybe killed your own stitched, but it has hard to kill so it stay with 1 Wd and reactivate, If they reactivate within 6" of dreamer, it heals.

So stitched has 2 activation with possibility to heal.

 

Everyone of my opponents told me that it´s very powerful model. And if you can have about 4 or 6 of them on the table in 2nd turn (2 hired and others because summoning) .. it look so powerful! 

 

 

But maybe its theory is caused by my oponent´s "fear of stitched and crying" 

[zFiend]

Beacuse you maybe killed your own stitched, but it has hard to kill so it stay with 1 Wd and reactivate, If they reactivate within 6" of dreamer, it heals.

So stitched has 2 activation with possibility to heal.

 

That is a good catch. Of course it leaves them a bit vulnerable with only 1 wd before they can re-activate as the enemy gets an activation but I see how works, it doesn't have to be that resource intensive as you can leave it more to the deck. 

[Drix]

What are some good trial lists for the Dreamer so I can play him on Vassal?

 

Dreamer/ Chompy

1 (?) Daydream

Coppelius

2 Stiched

Teddy

Iggy

Insidious Madness

and that leaves 7 stones for cache and toys. 

 

Obviously any Nightmare-based creature will work well, but what are the general builds to be seen for both Limited Upgrades? I'm sure Summoner Dreamer works different than Chompy-centric Dreamer. 

[Tuttleboy]

TBH I'd dump Iggy for Widow Weaver. That leaves you 4 SS for upgrades. The list you've got looks like you're building it to play as a Restless Dreams list so 1 for RD, and 2 more for Tantrum. Possibly drop the Daydream for 2 stones to take On Dreaming Wings for Widow Weaver.

When I play Dreams of Pain Dreamer I take 1 twin, 3 Daydreams, and at least 2 Alps for first turn healing. I like to take a couple Insidious Madness and fill the crew according to strategy and schemes. First turn summoning really will depend on cards. I do pretty much everything I can to get the other twin out with the It's My Dream Trigger if possible and then summon Daydreams or Alps. The Alps heal or reposition as needed. If I can I like to get Coppelieus if I can, but the second twin is key to the way I play summoning Dreamer.

[Drix]

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm noticing how versatile the Dreamer crew is and how radically divergent you can make his crews depending on scenarios and enemy faction. 

[Tiaden]

Well a general list for the Dreamer is quite difficult to build I think because he adapts so strongly to the shemes / strats. But I think I would always hire 3 Daydreams. If you do your summoning (even withouth "Dreams of Pain") then you want to sacrifice 1 / turn. So I'd like to have some spare ones. If you don't do your summoning. Well up to 30" movement for your crew, split amongst at least 2 models, is awesome never waste AP on that with your heavy hitter like Teddy anymore. Charge or Flurry does make a difference with him. And its also a good "counter Lure" if your enemy is Belle heavy. You want that -1Wp Aura for the Dreamers Paralyze chance. Dang out activating anyone? 3 Activations for 6 soulstones? Daydreams are just cheap and awesome.

[SevenSins]

Total noob here (and waiting for the rule book to become available again....) I have got my eye set on the dreamer, and considering running some summoning fun with the dreams of pain upgrade, I take it 3 daydreams become an auto include here to get the mask bonus on casting. A couple of questions though:

Is mr tannen worth including in this kind of list, I figured his +2 to masks could be handy?

What nightmares are summonable by dreams of pain? Insidious madness, widow weaver and stitched together and.... What else? (Like i mentioned no book yet...)

Any example summoning lists to share (and if possible with some thoughts behind the list)

[Tiaden]

Well basically Tannen for that +2 on Masks is a nice idea, but I wouldn't build on that. Currently if I didn't overlooked anything then you can summon the following:

 

Manifest Nightmares

• 9 ->Insidious Madness
• 10 -> Stitched Together
• 11 -> Lelu
• 11 -> Lilitu
• 12 -> Coppelius
• 15 -> Teddy

(The Widow Weaver is not summonable, as it is a Henchman and only Minions and Enforcer can get summoned.)

 

Usually I would expect to get the mask requirement from the sacrificed Daydream so the suit of the card you cheat (and I would always assume you have to cheat that duel) doesn't matter. Of course if you have the 13 Mask in your hand and you have Mr. Tannen then you could summon a Teddy which is awesome, but maybe thats the case in 1 of 5 games or so. Still it might me interesting to summon Stitched already with an 8 Mask or Coppelius with a 10 Mask if you get the Tannen support. It depends on how much you trust your luck to draw one of those cards.

 

The other benefit of that would be, that because you already intend to cheat a card with a mask you don't need to sacrifice a Daydream for the mask. The Daydream is easy to summon, but it would free up an AP from your master and that might mean a paralyzed enemy beatstick/master more which is huge.

 

I wouldn't recommend summoning 3 models a turn with the exception of you really wanting to get Lord Chompy Bits out because cheating 3 times a 9 or higher might mean that you are already out of all your high cards and that makes you terribly vulnerable to enemy actions. Besides that healing aura of the Dreamer is very valuable to your fresh summons. Therefore just summoning 1 model with a lower than usual card and avoiding to sacrifice a Daydream is really great.

 

So after all I would say. If you have a plan for Mr. Tannen to do something then it might be occasionally really great to have him together with the "Dreams of Pain"-Dreamer. But for depending on getting a benefit from that +2 card value would be too unreliable for me. But thats personal preference. (After all Chatty is a really anoying aura for your enemy in e.g. Squatters Right's or to protect your master from a Spring The Trap, and when you Alp-Spam or Horror Duel-Spam the enemy then Cooler is also very awesome)

[SevenSins]

Thanks for the answer, yeah i was planning on using Tannens annoying aura too of course. And summoning 1-2 a turn then reducing waking with the (0) action was my initial thought so that healing can begin

Should dreamer be all nightmares or are other options worthwhile (tannen & graves, have a certain estethic appeal) ?

I find the challenge in Malifaux is making a list, as the game is very streamlined with its low model count, pretty different from the games i currently play

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

I love the new Dreamer! That being said, I think his summoning build will be very hit or miss in a tournament setting (you're like, one of those competive jerks -like myself-) since you need a few high cards every hand to make anything happen. Where as a LCB-centric build should be more consistently awesome.