Rail Golem vs Howard Langston

[rythos42]

*queue arena fight music*

Looking at these two models, and I'm curious about their differences. What would you use each for that makes them different? Why would you take one over the other? They both look like super mobile, somewhat armoured beatsticks.

I'm playing Arcanist Mei Feng, with a bunch of Metal Gamin as my crew core. Primarily against Ressers...always with the Ressers...

[CRC]

They are very similar.

I would say the big differences are:

1. The Golem has Armor +2. That's significantly more defense.

2. Howard has Ml 7, which is great for hitting hard targets.

3. Howard has Nimble+Flurry, which always gives 3-4 AP, vs the Rail Golem's Locomotion, which can very between 2-many AP.

4. Howard has Steam Cloud.

So, if you need to kill high Df targets, prefer Howard.

If you need to hold an area and weather attacks, the Golem is probably better, unless you think the Cloud will be key (say Turf War over a coverless center).

If single turn movement is important, Howard caps out at 15", but it's not too hard to get the Golem up to 20" (though without card support he only gets 12"...)

Finally, if you desperately need tomes for your other models (Ramos, Rasputina...), know that you're going to have to make hard choices for who gets them.

[rythos42]

Thanks CRC!

I've found that Howard tends to die pretty quick - he's scary and expensive. I thought maybe the Golem would be hardier, with A+2, but it has 1 fewer wound and only Df4! Then I think about the Gamin Protection of Metal...Df6?

I tend to preferr tanky models over killy models. The Metal Gamin have a constant place in my crews since I got them.

Mei wants the Tomes for Tiger's Claw trigger, but she doesn't need them. Golem needs Tomes for Locomotion?

Maybe I'll build it and see what happens.

[Drool_bucket]

use both?

Overall I feel that Howard is so good on offense you will find that people will target him over everything else and he's just not quite good enough to stand up to it. Malifaux favors the attacker in most instances so its an uphill battle to keep Howard up and running.

The Rail Golem needs less help but can't do what Howard can against high SS targets, instead the RG can usually pound the heck out of lots of minions instead of downing an Master or Enforcer.

Both are awesome and perform different functions so a lot of it comes down to playstyles and supporting crew selection.

[mythicFOX]

The key difference between Miss Step (Howard) and the Golem for me is reliability vs potential.

Miss Step doesn't need to flip cards to nimble, steam cloud or flurry. All her extra AP and tricks just work. She also has Ml7 which means you can force hits into anyone, even Lilith. This makes her reliable and minimises the resources she consumes on the table.

The Golem has to flip cards to get his extra AP, consuming resources and risking the BJ on locomotion. He's also only Ml5 so cannot force hits through. That being said he has the potential to do much more damage, spread his hits out and move far further than Miss Step.

That's the choice as I see it.

As a tournament player I look for consistency and good resource in to power out ratios. Which is why I choose Miss Step's (Howard's) low maintenance reliability over the Golem's potential to delete an opponent's entire flank some of the time.

Other players will value these things differently.

[LupusFerreus]

James, do you consider taking either of them in non-Ramos/Mei crews? I'm looking at these debates and wondering how they fit in with Rasputina and Marcus, and who does better under those Masters.

[sssk]

I can't speak for Raspy, but Marcus loves these big construct beatsticks.

I won't comment on one vs the other, as I've never used the golem (sadly I don't really like the model), but Howard works very well with Marcus.

This is largely due to his alpha ability, which means you could activate Howard twice per turn (once you've turned him into a beast). That's an awful lot of movement and/or killing ability. He could move 20" and still flurry at the end of it!

One can only imagine the golem would be equally useful. The only slight concern there being that Marcus doesn't tend to play with burning much.

[mythicFOX]

James, do you consider taking either of them in non-Ramos/Mei crews? I'm looking at these debates and wondering how they fit in with Rasputina and Marcus, and who does better under those Masters.

At the moment I'm only really playing Ramos and occasionally Mei so my opinion on the others is limited at the moment. I don't see why they wouldn't be useful there though.

[Gorbad]

Howard is pretty much a stable part of my Colette lists. Partly because I have several of him/her, partly because I don't like the RG model that much but mostly because of the high reliability. I can depend on her to kill something. The decapitate trigger is an added bonus as well.

[Dracomax]

Thanks CRC!

I've found that Howard tends to die pretty quick - he's scary and expensive. I thought maybe the Golem would be hardier, with A+2, but it has 1 fewer wound and only Df4! Then I think about the Gamin Protection of Metal...Df6?

I tend to preferr tanky models over killy models. The Metal Gamin have a constant place in my crews since I got them.

Mei wants the Tomes for Tiger's Claw trigger, but she doesn't need them. Golem needs Tomes for Locomotion?

Maybe I'll build it and see what happens.

The gamin is all but useless with the rail golem. The Rail Golem is just too fast with locomotion. If you are willing to spend an extra 2 SS, Df 5 from the upgrade is much more consistently useful at keeping the Rail Golem alive.

I'd say both are extremely useful, although there are many people who are crying OP about the RG at the moment. That being said, if you are willing to hold the RG back for a round or two, burning isn't an issue, and the RG is a good beater against mid to low cost models in any crew. After round 2, I can consistently get 2-3 locomotions off, which is equivalent to either 8-12 movement, or up to 5 attacks, with each hit giving burning back. With Marcus' Alpha, that could be huge. The RG won't hit as often as Howard, but he will get more attacks, so that kind of evens out. He does have higher potential damage if you hit with locomotion, since he will usually have burning on him, so his Locomotion spread is actually 5/6/7. The lower hit chance and :tomes requirement make that much less consistent, though, even with the to hit

Howard's most useful attributes are the steam cloud and the nimble walk. He's a better card/AP drain, and he is scary as heck, with terrifying to boot. He has higher damage, and the decapitate trigger, which means that he is actually squishier than he is, simply because opponents will often take any opportunity they can to hit him. He is also a frequent consider for a 1 point bump to Df, but mostly, he survives best by jumping into melee. Bringing Johan along or some other form of healing helps too. But, especially in a Ramos crew, the fact people target him so obsessively can actually be a benefit. while they are focusing(both literally and figuratively-steam cloud!) on killing him, I'm moving other models into position and producing a large number of arachnids to get schemes. since he usually lasts (for me) until at least round 3, that is a lot of cards and AP spent looking away from my scheme/strategy machine. Of course, if they don't devote resources to him, then they die at old scissor hands, so it's win-win.

Terrain is key for both of them, really. Using it well, and getting around it, and striking when you want to, rather than when your opponent thinks you will make a huge difference. In my games, I've taken them both individually, and side by side, and honestly, I get about the same amount of use out of them, in that they do different things, but do them equally well.

I think that tournaments are going to see a lot of rail golem, myself. The to hit on attacks, and the "free" locomotion(i.e. no tomes, but at least 4 card to hit TN) are probably going to be enough consistency for most players, and the RG does almost as good a job of killing as Howard, with more potential damage. Only time will tell if this ends up being better than Howard over all, but someone devoting their time to buffing the RG will probably do very well, while someone who wants to use tomes on other things will probably pick Howard.

[mythicFOX]

Great post Dracomax.

I think ultimately it's going to be a question of personal preference and meta.

[LupusFerreus]

All I know is I'm picking up the Ramos box, if only for Howard and Joss. If I don't get on with Marcus I'm taking up Mei Feng. Thanks for the tips guys!

[Dracomax]

Well, Honestly, outside of Marcus, and maybe with him too, I still think the spiders make a good addition to most arcanist crews. They have good defenses, and armor, are relatively fast with unimpeded, and reduce Df on opponents. They make good objective grabbers, and add to your killing ability, for 4SS. There might be better choices in indvidual crews(Ice gamin for Raspy, for instance) but they are never bad choices.

[rythos42]

This is great stuff guys!

I guess I don't like the idea that an 11ss model can be removed half as easily as she (Howard is actually Miss Step ) can. I feel like "reliability" is a good chunk "will be there next turn", as well as all the Ml7 and Nimble and such.

---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

I only just found the thread complaining about the Rail Golem/continuous triggers...that's rough.

Particularly since I'm thinking about my stable of models for AdeptiCon this year, and while I play to win, I don't want to put a model on the table that my opponent will look at and instantly think I'm an ass! I have a small collection of Best Sports trophies that I'm trying to make fill up a shelf.

Actually, I think the best way to resolve that issue (and others) is to build and play with the Golem. Then I can make my own decision.

[Zwergenkrieger]

Does anyone have any experience with Rail Golem / Kaeris right now?

[Myth]

The key difference between Miss Step (Howard) and the Golem for me is reliability vs potential.

This is pretty much my view. The Golem is more dangerous when you build a crew around it, but Howard is more self-sufficient. Which one is better will depend heavily on how you plan to design the rest of your crew, in my mind.

[HalcyonSeraph]

Does anyone have any experience with Rail Golem / Kaeris right now?

Ive played it a couple times. The real key is not Kaeris but The Captain. He (she?) can put more burning on the Golem while also pushing him upfield faster.