Notes in malifaux

[Afro]

I did not see this mentionned in the rule book so I am asking here. Am I allowed to take notes with a pen and paper when I play malifaux. Also am I allowed to bring a calculator or do I have to remember all the cards that my opponent has discarded . I know that in other games like TCGs you are not allowed to so that's why the question came to mind. Thanks a bunch.

[Gyouza]

I would guess it has never been officially seen to, so it would depend on the opponent. But Most people frown on counting cards especially when you are obviously doing so. This may not be what your intention is but it is the only reason I could imagine you would want/need to keep track of your opponents discards.

If your opponent is fine with it I don't see why anyone else should care but I doubt they would be ok with that in a tournament setting.

Also which TCG says you can't take notes? I have never seen such a rule and for it to be effective you would need to know your opponents deck beforehand which is unlikely.

[Afro]

The notes would be more to see how many high cards he used for example. If I know he flipped mostly 1, 3 and 5s, there is a good chance he got a big flip coming up.

When it comes to TCGs Magic the gathering didn't allow you to take notes. Some effects would reveal opponent's hands and you were not allowed to look at the hand and mark down the cards that you saw. You had to remember them.

[daddy4count]

Personally I think it would bother me if my opponent were tracking my flips on paper...

If you can do so in your head more power to you!

Counting cards is a fairly simple process... if you learn to count for blackjack (using simple up and down, or + and - scoring) you could easily apply the same here... but probably with a little more accuracy since you're only counting one deck, not six.

Or you can try to think of it in percentages like you would for Texas Hold'em. You would just need to remember in your head that his chances of drawing a high card goes down by 2% each time you see one flipped...

Maybe not as accurate as paper, but with practice you can get pretty good at it and your opponent won't really be able to tell.

But they also won't have a reason to complain...

[dgraz]

I would guess it has never been officially seen to, so it would depend on the opponent. But Most people frown on counting cards especially when you are obviously doing so. .

The notes would be more to see how many high cards he used for example. If I know he flipped mostly 1, 3 and 5s, there is a good chance he got a big flip coming up.

Yeah, that's counting cards. It's a weird thing, some people can count cards in their head....and even if people know they do, they may not really like it but they still play them. But I think visibly taking notes would be seen as even worse than that. I know I wouldn't like it.

[Claymore65]

Yeah, nothing against the rules, but your opponent may not appreciate it. I wouldn't appreciate counting cards that way. As for more general notes, that's perfectly fine. It can be very helpful to keep track of who has different conditions (like burning), or you can keep notes on enemy models after reading their cards. As another note, you can look at your opponent's model cards at any time. If you have any questions, feel free to look at the card. You CANNOT ask to look at their actual hand though. Taking notes might help though. For example, maybe you write down a reminder that you cannot charge Ronin, so you don't build your battle-plan based on it. You might also find it helpful to write down your opponent's general tactics last turn so you might be able to plan for it. Still, directly counting cards like that isn't against the rules, but I would ask your opponent if it's okay first. Not wrong, just common courtesy.

[hypoking]

Seems like it'd be in poor form if for no other reason then it would slow down the game. For all I know though you could have a decent words per minute.

This game already has so much to over think, why would you want to add another to the heap?

[Barnaberible]

For me the fun in gaming is doing things in your head, tactics and the like. Sure I mentally note if certain cards have gone from my deck or my opponents (not that it makes any difference, I rolled 6 consecutive ones in blood bowl last week so you can imagine what card comes next if I've flipped 3 consecutive low cards)

To be honest if my opponent was making notes it wouldn't bother me as long as it didn't slow the game down, which unfortunately I think it would, and tournament times are tight enough without note taking after every move.

[Morgan Vening]

To me, this is the same debate as the pre-measure debate, with two exceptions.

The pre-measure debate discussed the merits of having an arbitrary skill having an impact on the game (the ability to accurately guesstimate distance). The first exception was that the time taken to pre-measure vs the time taken procrastinating over whether it was 6.9 or 7.1 inches was negligible, or favoured the pre-measure. The second exception was that a failure had a relatively significant impact on games. Having a declared charge or a focused shot/spell fail, and the entire action wasted had a significant impact on the game.

Counting cards, especially by notekeeping is going to have a detrimental effect on time, and the impact it'll have in most situations is going to be marginal at best. And the time required to calculate for any given situation, adding further.

Personally, I'd have no problem with an opponent going through my (or their own) discard piles. But it will slow the game down significantly, and in most cases, only be making a small impact in the actual play. Intuition for the most part works best. Or does it really matter that the knowledge of those extra two Severes above average that your opponent had discarded makes your chance of success 85% instead of 80%?

Morgan Vening

- Just play the game.

[nilus]

The notes would be more to see how many high cards he used for example. If I know he flipped mostly 1, 3 and 5s, there is a good chance he got a big flip coming up.

When it comes to TCGs Magic the gathering didn't allow you to take notes. Some effects would reveal opponent's hands and you were not allowed to look at the hand and mark down the cards that you saw. You had to remember them.

Its no spelled out in the rules but at a tournament I run I would not allow it. Just seems like bad form.

[Mike3838]

It's spelled out in the rules that you're not allowed to look in either Discard pile unless you have an ability which lets you.

Writing down the contents of your discard pile, or your opponent's, is simply a way to circumvent this rule, and as such is effectively cheating.

[decker_cky]

If you want to keep track of that stuff, just make a mental track for yourself just count either high and low cards, or high, middle and low cards as your opponent cycles through the deck (you too). Counting for you and your opponent is remembering 6 numbers at once, which takes some practice, but once you're used to it, it's not too hard.

I don't bother though - I find that there's no huge advantage compared to just remembering "lots of high cards seem to have been coming up" or "lots of low cards seem to have been coming up" for both decks. But if you can track those numbers [important caveat] without distracting yourself from the actual tactics of the game [/important caveat], then counting cards to some degree is always useful for making educated gambles.

What's most important is knowing whether the black and red jokers have come out so you can really make good gambles if you or your opponent is operating on a short deck. If they have 5 or so cards, one of which must be the black joker, and you're thinking of a duel that will flip three cards for whatever reason, you have a very good chance of success.

Edited December 13, 2013 by decker_cky

[daddy4count]

don't the decks get reshuffled rather often in a game? (just starting to learn myself)

Every time the deck is reshuffled you would have to start your count over again...

[decker_cky]

don't the decks get reshuffled rather often in a game? (just starting to learn myself)

Every time the deck is reshuffled you would have to start your count over again...

At least every turn the deck is shuffled. Most crews don't tend to make it through a deck in a turn, but it happens on occasion (more often for some crews than others).

[daddy4count]

At least every turn the deck is shuffled. Most crews don't tend to make it through a deck in a turn, but it happens on occasion (more often for some crews than others).

that's kind of what I thought, based on the rules I've read so far...

It seems to me that taking the time to try and count would be somewhat a waste of time when you have to start over every turn... Seems to me it would be a lot more work than it is worth..?

[Pierowmaniac]

I dont think anyone would mind you taking general notes, but specifically card counting would be a social fopaux imho

[Ikvar]

As a Henchman I would never allow it- neither in social/fun games nor in competitions period.

[Ausplosions]

Not a chance would I play someone doing this.

[edonil]

Card counting gets you thrown out of casinos for a reason. If you can pull it off in your head, I can't stop you, but if you were taking notes in a game, better believe I'd be calling shenanigans and stopping the match right there.

[DavicusPrime]

I expect some mental card counting going on just as part of any game that uses cards. But to make a big deal of it such that you've got to take notes seems like an over reach. Better to just play the game. I don't put much more thought into it beyond caring how many cards they've got left in their control hand and maybe whether or not their jokers have made an appearance yet. I like figuring probabilities and what not out, but my brain isn't up to doing it on the fly without slowing down the game.

that's kind of what I thought, based on the rules I've read so far...

It seems to me that taking the time to try and count would be somewhat a waste of time when you have to start over every turn... Seems to me it would be a lot more work than it is worth..?

It gets worse later in game when one or both of you don't have many models left on the table. You'll barely get through a third of your deck before reshuffling. And you just don't know what cards they've been holding.

-DavicusPrime

[Afro]

It gets worse later in game when one or both of you don't have many models left on the table. You'll barely get through a third of your deck before reshuffling. And you just don't know what cards they've been holding.

-DavicusPrime

Starting the count again isn't an issue it actually makes things easier as if you're counting Hi and Low and you screwed up you get another chance at getting it right each turn.

The fact that you don't know what cards they are holding could still make you force them to play. If they are at -8 (counting for Malifaux not black jack) you can bet the next card they flip will be garbage. So you can try to make them waste cards.

I think it can still be useful but I understand everyone's point about it slowing down the game and whatnot.

[Phototoxin]

The notes would be more to see how many high cards he used for example. If I know he flipped mostly 1, 3 and 5s, there is a good chance he got a big flip coming up.

When it comes to TCGs Magic the gathering didn't allow you to take notes. Some effects would reveal opponent's hands and you were not allowed to look at the hand and mark down the cards that you saw. You had to remember them.

Actually that's changed, you can record open knowledge such as revealed cards etc now.

I can't actually see a reason for this in malifaux to be fair. Most things are either known only to you or else by everyone.