M2E Marcus

[sssk]

I didn't think Marcus needed to go outside of beasts to be competitive (he looks pretty awesome as is). I just want to use my Miss Step (Marcus is my first Arcanist Master) and wondered if it would be a good idea.

 

Also, thanks for the tip about the Raptors. I might proxy them until I get them (they were already on the top of my beast list just for (2) action).

I tend to run either Joss or Miss Step in my crews. They get very funny with alpha. I usually don't bother with the canine/raptor though. Feral is usually plenty for turning my guys into beasts, giving me space for an extra moleman. That being said, I've not really ventured into wave 2 yet (there's plenty going on in wave 1!) so a raptor might be a good shout.

[Bengt]

Just Howl first, its a pulse isn't it IIRC...

Howl when they're not a beast to reduce WP by 2, then make them a beast WITH WP-2.

Pretty cash.

No, while Howl is a pulse, it does not give out a Wp modifier by itself, but a condition that modifies the bearer's Wp depending on being a beast or not.

[dgraz]

i ment I used the essence of power to try and buff Marcus giving him extra ca and what not, but it couldn't keep up

Ah.....yeah, EoP not really worth it with Marcus. Better with someone that can do damage from afar, like Raspy (but I don't use it with her either because the Wendigo is BOSS).

 

I didn't think Marcus needed to go outside of beasts to be competitive (he looks pretty awesome as is). I just want to use my Miss Step (Marcus is my first Arcanist Master) and wondered if it would be a good idea.

 

Also, thanks for the tip about the Raptors. I might proxy them until I get them (they were already on the top of my beast list just for (2) action).

No reason not to other than 'fluff'. Though I agree with Sssk about it not generally being worth it since Feral will do the trick.....and having something contribute more on turn 1 than wasting time trying to turn a friend into beast is usually better....and what happens if you don't pull the suit you need for it on turn 1? Have that beast sit around for two turns hoping to do it? Depending on what other beasts you take, you can be pretty far across the table on turn 1....so having that Raptor bury and drop to block a shooter or a charger for the start of turn 2 is usually a better use of it.

 

No, while Howl is a pulse, it does not give out a Wp modifier by itself, but a condition that modifies the bearer's Wp depending on being a beast or not.

This is correct.

[ajay29]

No, while Howl is a pulse, it does not give out a Wp modifier by itself, but a condition that modifies the bearer's Wp depending on being a beast or not.

 

Weird, having reread it now that makes sense. Never considered the condition would change effects, thanks for this!

[dgraz]

Weird, having reread it now that makes sense. Never considered the condition would change effects, thanks for this!

Don't feel bad........I heavily tested Marcus during PT and I was playing it wrong for a long time.

[brdparker]

I've been loving my play of Bishop of late. Embeastened, the guy got 9 attacks in a turn of my game last night (1 for swift, 3 for flurry during his alpha turn, plus 1 for smell fear, and then a whole other activation of 4 attacks) and it was wonderful. Makes howl all the better when it effectively gives Bishop an 8 Ml against their Wp (6, and then they have -2). Very silly.

 

I've been using Smell Fear more and more. For a SS, it typically gives me at least 2 extra attacks/turn, which can turn the tide in a brawl.

[dgraz]

I've been using Smell Fear more and more. For a SS, it typically gives me at least 2 extra attacks/turn, which can turn the tide in a brawl.

Me too. I like it on the BoD....she's tough enough to carry it safely and the Leap lets her get it where it needs to be.

[sssk]

I've been using Smell Fear more and more. For a SS, it typically gives me at least 2 extra attacks/turn, which can turn the tide in a brawl.

 

It's a fantastic upgrade. Unfortunately it's the "price of progress" of M2E for me. In M1E I used Mei a lot, and remembered to draw cards for killing stuff in approximately 2 games over 6-8 months. Smell fear is exactly the same now. If I remember 1 extra attack in a game, I'm lucky

[dgraz]

It's a fantastic upgrade. Unfortunately it's the "price of progress" of M2E for me. In M1E I used Mei a lot, and remembered to draw cards for killing stuff in approximately 2 games over 6-8 months. Smell fear is exactly the same now. If I remember 1 extra attack in a game, I'm lucky

There are plenty of things like that for me too. But when I put Pack Leader in, I actively look for situations to use it....so it's always on my mind. Even if I did forget it every other time except for my plan with it.....if I take out a Master or a Sebastion, or a Joss, or something like that then it was well worth it.

[izikial]

I have a turf war game with marcus against viks, do you guys have any tips on what to do, only useing wave 1 models

[brdparker]

There are plenty of things like that for me too. But when I put Pack Leader in, I actively look for situations to use it....so it's always on my mind. Even if I did forget it every other time except for my plan with it.....if I take out a Master or a Sebastion, or a Joss, or something like that then it was well worth it.

Agreed. You Darzee's Chaunt something in melee with 2-3 of your beasts, and you start to realize how useful planning to get those extra attack really is.

 

 

I have a turf war game with marcus against viks, do you guys have any tips on what to do, only useing wave 1 models

 

Viks are rather squishy, so models with leap are handy (I'm looking at you Jackalope). Also, things will probably die, accept it. The Soul Siphon upgrade could be very useful. My initial though is Cojo, but he always disappoints me by dying too quickly, and I think that's moreso a potential against the Viks. May be my meta, but when I play Viks, they usually have a bunch of ranged guys, a la Hans and Convict Gunslinger, so perhaps a Waldgeist or the Captain would be handy (and the cap would help with movement stuff). Also, keep your masks for Law of Meat, as that would shut down the Viks, save for the single ranged attack the one has. Good luck!

[dgraz]

Agreed. I love, love, love Cojo for Turf war....but against the Viks? Probably not. I'd take two Waldgeists to control the center..........their 4" melee range can shut down a lot of board by engaging lots of things (if the Viks are engaged, they can't charge.

 

I'd probably also take Myranda for the Df buff on the 'geists......the Viks can still push through a hit if they want to, but you can mitigate the damage by getting good cards for Df and getting the duel totals closer....and potentially make them cheat to hit you.

 

Then Marcus with Trail of the Gods......use Law of Meat when possible and wait for the Viks to overextend, then jump in with Marcus with the +2 damage.....a 4 on weak damage will drop them quick.

 

I'd also probably take the Blessed of December.......she has the Leap, so you can keep her out of LoS then jump in when you're ready too.......decent damage with a high Ml stat and a Trigger to attack again.....she should also make quick work of a Vik.

 

Try to keep Ronin off the 'Geists.......they ignore armor and will kill a 'geist quick.

 

I'd fill in with some cheap guys too for objective running depending on your Schemes......don't forget them....you can earn more points by completing both schemes than you can from the strat. (I might drop Myranda if you need the stones)

 

One last decent model.........Malifaux Raptor. Can bury turn 1, then drop down at the end of the turn....either engaging a sniper, or blocking a Vik charge range..........it may die right away, but if it can delay the death of something bigger for a turn or two then totally worth it.

[izikial]

I know she will take the hard to kill on master vik so I can't alpha strike her out the way, and she will also go ranged spam a fair amount to

[dgraz]

I know she will take the hard to kill on master vik so I can't alpha strike her out the way, and she will also go ranged spam a fair amount to

Marcus can easily get 3-4 attacks on a charge with the Trail of the Gods Upgrade.

 

If you decide to take the BoD, put Pack Leader on her......then when you hit Vik with Law of Meat or Feral, you can get some free attacks on her.

 

If there is a lot of ranged, the Raptor/s will be very handy....and the BoD can stay out of LoS long enough to get into the back field with her mobility......she's a real killer, so her in the back field with just shooters is very scary indeed. (I'd probably put Pack Leader and Imbued Energies on her.)

[dgraz]

'geists are good for this game too with their Perfect Camo........if you can hold off activating them till late turn.....neg flips to shooting (and they should be in cover thanks to Germinate....so double neg) and works against charges too.....neg flips on attacks is huge.

[izikial]

ok, some good feed back there, thanks guys

[Kadeton]

Just to chime in briefly, the Viks have absolutely no trouble dealing with Waldgeists. on attacks doesn't bother them much, Armor usually bothers them very little (assuming Shez'uul), and they can drop a Waldgeist with one minimum damage attack each (assuming Fury). Engaging them means you make Ash use Dragon's Bite instead of charging, so now they're getting to damage as well.

 

The rest of most Viks crews can struggle a bit with Waldgeists (until they get into melee) so they're not a terrible choice, but their best use is probably to use their deaths to lure the Viks into overextending so you can counter-attack.

 

Basically, if I'm playing the Viks and my opponent brings any model that relies on penalising enemy attack flips or using Armor to survive, I'm happy.

[dgraz]

@ Kadeton: Good tips.......I don't play the Viks so I'm less familiar with their abilities. What type of models give the Viks trouble then?

[Kadeton]

Anything that uses an ability that isn't Armor, Hard to Kill, Hard to Wound or Incorporeal to reduce damage is a huge pain. Df 6+ models can give them a hard time. Terrifying and other Wp-test-to-target abilities will frequently make them cheat cards, which they're very hungry for.

 

Marcus' best assets against them are probably the Jackalope (which doesn't care about dying, and can do serious damage), Myranda (hard to take down, and a failed kill attempt just means there's another big beast in the Viks' faces) and the Razorspine (long counter-charge range, Terrifying, good Df). Consider taking Imbued Protection on key models (especially Myranda), even though it's expensive, as the extra Df is very handy and the damage reduction defeats Shez'uul.

 

Marcus can actually do really well against them - just spread out, take their alpha-strike on the chin and lose a couple of models, then rush them and take them down. A careful Viks player will see the overextension and avoid it, but they can't do that forever, and Viks players tend not to be all that careful.

[izikial]

i am terrified of the viks, quick, high damage, can ignore all sorts of defences, can lay down a lot of range. I just dont know what to do, I feel like if I try and play cleaver she will get 1-2 points on the centre before I can contend with her, and if I try rushing her ill got shot to bits then put to the sword, I cant even try and contend with her at range, and my melee is ok but not as good as there's, and my big 9-8 ss beasts can be killed in 1 viks activation no problem

[dgraz]

I'm telling ya.......Raptors stop ranged but good. Take two and you can shut down 2-4 models depending on how they deploy....they're Df 6 so not easy to get rid of. They'll stop turn 2 shooting so you can get in with your other beasts.

 

Hoarcat Prides have Manipulative. Myranda with Imbued Protection is Df 8 (with SS damage prevention). I'm still liking the idea of the BoD for this one too.

 

Maybe take less big models. Just Marcus, Myranda, and BoD. Then a couple Raptors, Hoarcat Prides (even a Hoarcat can mess up a Vik when they're at full health).......maybe a couple of Guild Hounds (long range missiles)......Rattler, maybe two (depending on the rest of your list). Night Terrors are H2K.....Canine Remains are H2W.

 

Spread out......feed cheaper models into the center for Turf War......wait for Viks to attack then jump them. The Viks can't be everywhere and if they can't pick expensive targets they'll have to settle for smaller ones....then you've got them.

 

Thanks Kadeton.

[Kadeton]

i am terrified of the viks, quick, high damage, can ignore all sorts of defences, can lay down a lot of range. I just dont know what to do, I feel like if I try and play cleaver she will get 1-2 points on the centre before I can contend with her, and if I try rushing her ill got shot to bits then put to the sword, I cant even try and contend with her at range, and my melee is ok but not as good as there's, and my big 9-8 ss beasts can be killed in 1 viks activation no problem

 

The Viks are super intimidating because they can literally kill almost anything in the game that they want to in a single activation. If they decide they're going to kill something of yours, it's dead.

 

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean they're unstoppable. The key to beating them is to limit their impact, and give them hard choices. That's where the advice like "spread out" comes from - if you bunch your crew up in the centre, the Viks can kill all of them in a single chain activation. If you spread out (keep your key models 6" or more apart) but keep in range to counter-charge, you can really mess the Viks up. A single kill followed by a dangerous counter-attack is a bad proposition for them - your opponent will be trying to set up a situation where they can hit multiple models for extra value.

 

The main thing is to get past the fear of losing expensive models - you are going to lose them. The trick is to use those deaths to put the Viks out of position. They are surprisingly easy kills - even with Hard to Kill and a pile of soulstones - and Marcus' crew has plenty of damage output.

 

Currently, you're going in blind. There's no one thing that we can point to and say "Do this, and you're guaranteed to win." The suggestions here are mainly ways in which you will be able to learn to beat the Viks - you need to get a feel for how much hitting power it takes to bring them down, because if you under-commit and fail, they will obliterate you. The Viks' main strength is being able to leverage an opponent's minor mistake into a crushing victory.

 

My main piece of advice for anyone facing a crew that they're not really sure how to beat is this: don't think of it as winning and losing, because you'll probably lose. Think of it as a chance to try something different, see how it works, and think about how you could change that approach next time so that it's more effective. If you're not afraid to lose the game, then you can start benefiting from the experience.

[dgraz]

Great post.

[izikial]

ok, its hard to not bunch up in turf war as you need to occupy the centre, I think the raptors will be good 3ss to hold up 7-8 ss of model im not sure what im going to do to win but ill try something.

[Kadeton]

ok, its hard to not bunch up in turf war as you need to occupy the centre, I think the raptors will be good 3ss to hold up 7-8 ss of model im not sure what im going to do to win but ill try something.

 

You really don't need to bunch up at all. All you need is two (non-Peon) models within 6" of the centre at the end of each turn. You get no benefit whatsoever from having extra models in that area. You don't have to keep your opponent out of the centre, you just need to beat them on Schemes.

 

I also imagine that if your opponent bunches up in the centre, Viktoria of Blood is a seriously good target for Alpha, especially if your opponent has already cast Sisters in Fury.