So...Colette is annoying!

[Valtyr]

Hi all,

I played my first game against Colette today, using Yan Lo for the second time, and all I really have to say is, wow, I don't think there is a less-fun crew I have ever played against.

My crew consisted on Yan Lo, Soul Porter, Chiaki, Toshiro, Yin and Izamu. His crew was Colette (+ Mannequin), Angelica (+Mannequin), Cassandra, 2 x Showgirls and 2 x Oiran.

Some of my reaction I can put down to simple ignorance - I had no idea walking into the game what Colette and her Showgirls can do, and I was a little taken aback by how quickly and easily they are able to accomplish tasks whilst remaining practically immune to return damage.

The sheer number of tricks they can perform (quite apt considering their profession) is also incredibly frustrating, and it got to the stage where whenever my opponent announced an ability I simply nodded without even bothering to check as, well, they are able to break near enough every other rule in the game so why question it!

My question to all the Arcanists here is; how do you adequately counter a Colette crew? Focus on her? Her Showgirls? The Scenario? How do you stop her doing pretty much anything she wants? I don't particularly want to steamroller my opponent, but just having an above average chance of understanding how she does things and thus preventing them from time to time would be much appreciated.

I also play Ten Thunders (Misaki) and Relic Hunters, if Yan Lo is a little bit too scissors to her rock.

Thanks in advance!

- Valtyr

[Uncle Caveman]

I have limited experience against Colette, but I have usually done pretty well against her. Here are all the thoughts I can really offer. They have seemed to work out okay for me in the past.:

• Don't focus her unless you can make her burn all her soulstones out quickly.
  
• Effects that don't kill her are usually the most useful. With Yan Lo I would just shoot for paralysis as often as possible.
  
• Keep Izamu away from her and her birds. They'll bury him every chance they get. Although this is terribly hard to do with all the movement the showgirl crew has.
  
• Your crew was also a little too superstar heavy. Colette will usually destroy small count superstar lists. I like more models against Colette so I can turn everything into a fight of attrition. Burying a 10 stone model is awesome. The same plan doesn't work on three four stone models.
  

I hope that helps some. It is a tough fight for sure. Good luck.

[Ryu]

Wong. Any type of counterspell is going to destroy her, though Wong has animosity Ten Thunders, so he's not going to help you out anytime soon. If I ever think my opponent is bringing a casty crew Wong is my answer - even if I guess wrong Wong still brings enough utility to the table to make up for it usually.

[Adran]

Your crew appears to be built to be very resilient and do well in melee both attacking and recieveing return attacks.

Showgirls aren't going to do that. They are certainly defeatable, but there isn't 1 magic trick to counter them. Knowing what they can do, and what they are going to do can help a lot. They have to earn VPs just as you do. You probably know how they are going to earn them, and its very unlikely to be by killing your models.

I would stop her destroying evidence by guarding the evidence. I should easily stop her wagon reaching the center and its probably not too hard to damage it.

Basically its not likely to be a game you win by focusing on killing the enemy crew and then earning VPs later. On the right missions the Showgirl crew can get 8 VPs without ever having to attack you. Be aware of this and plan accordingly.

They aren't unkillable, and they can burn through their resources very quickly if they aren't careful. Focus on small sections of the crew until they die generally helps. When you catch something it wil probably die, and soulporter can easily make sure Izamu is ready in position to kill off something.

Your best bet is to spend a few minutes reading her cards, and possibly trying to play her crew at somepoint. I find its very easy to see a crews strengths when I am facing it, but I see its weaknesses a lot more when I am controlling it.

[IntereoVivo]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. You can pretty much guarantee that Collette will get 4 points because few masters can slow her crew down enough to prevent her from achieving her schemes. This means you need to score 5 points minimum while keeping her from scoring her strategy. One of the best ways to so this is by build to be resilient enough that if she attacks you she has to spend a lot of ap trying to kill you.

Ashigaru are fantastic because they cannot be killed by anyone in her crew in less then two AP (except by the Red Joker). Yin is also very survivable, as are Tosh and Izamu. Chiaki will probably just get killed. Punk Zombies and Belles are also great because any time you can force a ton of duels you deplete Collettes resources and she needs a LOT of SS an cards to do her thing.

As has been mentioned, paralyze is your best friend. If Collette can't activate she does fast.

I'd try Misaki against her and focus on killing Cassandra and the other performers.

[Mr. Goggles]

Colette is certainly not unbeatable, but she is (in my opinion) one of the most annoying masters in the game, and one of the hardest to actually kill.

If you focus on her first.

Colette only works while her crew is still alive. If you can burn down other pieces of the crew before you get to Colette, you will see a lot more success against her. Colette's, and the crews, movement shennanigans rely heavily on having other showgirls out there. If you kill the rest of the crew, Colette can't Illusionist with them, she can't declare Blinding Flash triggers, she'll have to actually walk places, and if you cause Colette to use a walk action, you are probably going to win the game.

Outside of Colette herself, once you actually hit the showgirls they tend to burst into flames. They have lots of tricks to avoid being hit (Irresitible on Performers, Celebrity on Cassandra, Mercurial on the Duet...) but once you make contact, you will deal A LOT of damage to them. The only thing that's difficult to one shot is the mannequin because of armor & object.

The vast majority of the crew has use soulstone, and even if they don't, the doves can be used like soulstones (and with a flip on it) which adds to the survivablity of the crew. Killing doves sucks, but it allows you to kill the other models. Unless your opponent isn't using them that way, which is something I still don't have down yet. If you're able to focus on Cassandra, you can get your opponent to burn the vast majority of their soulstones, and once you do that, most of Colette's spells become unusable, and things like the Duet become much more killable.

All in all, there are rarely any crews where the showgirls see them and go "all right, auto win." They don't work that way. They're the ultimate hit and run force, and they do it well. What you can do is use abilities and triggers that require them to use soulstones, or discard them. Instant kill triggers spring to mind, as does Misaki's cutpurse (God dammit I hate that ability).

Force them to burn their soulstones, then strike. If you are able to do that, you should be able to destroy the crew. But just like with any matchup, play your strategy, play your schemes, and then focus on them. If you can at least have a tie in VP's before you start hitting them, you should be sitting pretty.

[Gorbad]

Mr. Goggles gives so good tips. Dealing with Collette is a lot easier if you kill most of her Showgirls. And while Performers are annoying to attack because of irrisistable they are not terribly hard to kill. Also ItP models are a real pain to deal with as the Performers and Oirans (and Angelica?) mainly use wp based stuff.

Another thing to look out for is catching Cassandra before she activates. After turn two she have no passive defences and needs to activate to get them up. And if you can get you opponent to spend soulstones on her your probably doing okay.

But its actually a strange kind of attrition game. If Collette is flush with resources(Showgirls and SS) you are not going to touch her, so focus on depleting those. Alternatively, don't bother killing Collette unless you have to. Just focus on schemes and strategies. That's what the showgirls want to do anyway, so you can to some extend predict where they are going to be, and its probably better than trying to chase them down.

Also, how many SS where you playing, that's 36 SS in the Showgirls where as yours look more like 35?

[Mehter]

Play two Izamus but don't tell anyone.

[Uncle Caveman]

Play two Izamus but don't tell anyone.

A sound plan.

[Ozz]

As has been said, Colette is rarely a crew you get to interact with on your terms, so attempt to complete all Strats/ Schemes first, and if an opportunity presents its self, kill a Show girl, or in the example of Cassandra, put all the attacks on her you can to drain her hand/SS.

Colette does not do well once you have run her out of Soul Stones, cards or show girls. Drain one of those resources and she will have a much harder time surviving. Just make sure to try to focus on one resource (SS or Show girls are what i recommend)

models to take against her if you know your facing Colette would be ones which are fast, and can complete objectives for you quickly. Or models that have a high CB + Paired so you dont need to waste your hand as much to make your opponent burn resources, Punk Zombies are very good at this, as are Belles pulling them out of position if you can see them. Models with poison are also good as there are no show girls with lots of WD, so the extra couple from a weak hit hurts them a lot.

[pixelante]

Small superstar lists are the worst against Colette because she will bury or mannequinify a key peace and then your crew will fall apart.

Also the showgirls do not break any rules, they just exploit them to the fullest extent.

[AtomicKeen]

Small superstar lists are the worst against Colette because she will bury or mannequinify a key peace and then your crew will fall apart.

Also the showgirls do not break any rules, they just exploit them to the fullest extent.

I played Colette for the first time yesterday at 30ss. It was my first time playing as Marcus and I flipped for beatdown (my buddy and I are venturing into Arcanists). I guess you could say I ran a small superstar list (Rogue Necromancy, a Shikome, Myranda (as a shikome), and a malifaux Raptor as a pet for Marcus)....

Beginning of turn three, Colette turns the Rogue Necro into a mannequin and it really threw off my entire game. Just less than half of my crew in SS cost --POOF-- disappears. It was madness.

Plus the entirety of the crew being able to use soulstones, save the Doves which become soulstones... Colette plays rough. Playing against Colette was a nightmare, but half of that was probably the unease of using all brand new models and not being familiar with my enemy's rules and fancy tricks.

[pixelante]

As a point of fact the Performers cannot use Soulstones, but they can sac Doves for Soulstones, it is a small but significant fact. Also the doves can use but, cannot discard soulstones so they cannot cast disappearing act

[The Godlyness]

(the only spell they can cast is Magicians duel)

I know you wanted to add that to your post Pixelante

Colette can be very Daunting to play against, if you dont know what she is capable of. that said if the person playing Colette is not sure of what she can do either then it should be an ...interesting game. Heck i am still learning some of the shenanigans she can do.

But to beat her. kill her crew. Cassy is less dead 'ard when she hasn't activated (same with the duet but for different reasons). Performers don't really last once you get past irresistible and if you burn Colette's hand she cant make soulstones. (aka attacking things that are not her) now if you can pull her crew out of position or make her move out of position then you will have a much easier time.

[Barnaberible]

anything with disrupt magic is pretty handy (obviously witchlings but also Sue has it I think) as the majority of the attacks are magic based so negating the ability to cheat them is massive. Dont take anything with a low CA or she will just swamp you in doves.

Also remeber that practically all of her spells require a soulstone to cast, and yes she can make them but if she dosent hit the casting total she still expends the soulstone.

While Cass and the Coryphee can use soulstones this is a double edged sword as the will compete for them, if you are positioned correctly you can pounce on Colette when she has low stones if she is allowing the big 2 to use them.

Again as said before dont take high cost minions and focus on the showgirls

[Malal]

aAlso remeber that practically all of her spells require a soulstone to cast, and yes she can make them but if she dosent hit the casting total she still expends the soulstone.

Don't think this is right, the Soulstone cost isn't an AR so it goes in the order of hit the TN then spend the Soulstone (or don't and don't)

The bit of advice I'd give is to apply pressure early and keep it up. If Collette and her crew aren't cheating fate, she'll be cycling through the cards, building her hand and increasing her cache.

[pixelante]

Yep totally wrong.

Colette casts the spell and then discards a SS if the spell is successful and calls for it.

Also the reality is that a savvy Colette player will cast two spells Disappearing Act and Magician's Duel and of the two the first one will alwys be boosted for the double flip to try and get the mannequin trigger.

[Gorbad]

Also the reality is that a savvy Colette player will cast two spells Disappearing Act and Magician's Duel and of the two the first one will alwys be boosted for the double flip to try and get the mannequin trigger.

I must be a silly Collette player then because I frequently use more spells than that. Discharge Soulstone is quite a good damage spell, and if your opponent have armour can be your best damage option period. She might be hard to kill, but if you can take out enemies without them being able to retaliate at all why not?

And you probably forgot about Trick of the Hat, but who doesn't like more doves?

Also, depending on the situation I might or might not spend the additional soulstone on Disappearing Act. A lot of the time just burying the enemy is all that's needed, and then you can go for the Slight of Hand trigger instead making it "free".

[Adran]

Regarding the additional requirement (which the spendign a soulstone is), you need to spend the soulstone to cast the spell after you have genrated a total but before the spell is resisted. so even if the resist happens you have lost that soulstone. Makes doign it on a moderate toatl much riskier as you are risking the stone against you opponent having a decent card

[Malal]

It's not an additional requirement as in an "AR:" printed on the card which would mean pay the soulstone then flip... If you don't flip high enough to meet the casting cost you don't have to spend the soulstone

[Barnaberible]

Regarding the additional requirement (which the spendign a soulstone is), you need to spend the soulstone to cast the spell after you have genrated a total but before the spell is resisted. so even if the resist happens you have lost that soulstone. Makes doign it on a moderate toatl much riskier as you are risking the stone against you opponent having a decent card

Yes sorry, my mistake you discard the stone before the resist but still lose it if it is resisted

[pixelante]

I usually start with two doves at least and if I need more I generate them in the first turn or so before engaging. However once I have engaged through movement shenanigans I can usually get close enough to use Magician's Duel and I find it much more useful to cast Disappearing Act becuase then I don't have to worry about anything like armour. The only time I've used Discharge Soulstone is when my opponent has chosen to cower in the deployment zone, but then you can do the following. Move the Coryphee Duet up. Dance Together with Cassandra. Move up a Dove. Illusionist swap Cassandra or Coryphee then sac the Dove to bring either back up the board and you're in your opponents face and you don't really need to worry about using Discharge SS.

So yeah Colette is very annoying. Realistically the only thing you will find most effective is to work on killing her crew to cut out her movement shenanigans and that will make it much more difficult for your opponent to acquire victory points.

[Adran]

It's not an additional requirement as in an "AR:" printed on the card which would mean pay the soulstone then flip... If you don't flip high enough to meet the casting cost you don't have to spend the soulstone

Sorry you've got additional requirements wrong.

Page 46 under Spell Description “Describes the spells effect. This my include any additional casting restrictions such as special targeting rules, or and additional requirements for casting the spell. When a Spell lists additional casting requirements in the first line of its description these requirements must be met during the Casting Duel or the spell will fail.”

You need to meet the Target Number and the additional requirements to cast the spell. You don't need to meet the additional requirements before you cast but during the cast.

So you don't have to discard the soulstopne until you are setting the Target number for the resist. Up until then you have the option to not discard the stone and have the spell fail.

It is an additional requirement, but the spell was printed before they came up with the AR nomencature. It functions the same way as those in book 4 with AR.

[Malal]

Regarding the additional requirement (which the spendign a soulstone is), you need to spend the soulstone to cast the spell after you have genrated a total but before the spell is resisted. so even if the resist happens you have lost that soulstone. Makes doign it on a moderate toatl much riskier as you are risking the stone against you opponent having a decent card

Just checked my little rulebook and yeah, you got it Adran....still claiming I was half right though

[Adran]

No problems, you were close, I just don't like leavign somethign wrong in a thread as the last word.

Its for this reason that I think Magicians duel is her best spell, it doesn't have the risky outlay. I like discharge soulstone, but before they introduced additional requirements, you didn't need to discard the stone until after they failed the resist, it was a lot better.