Campaign query

[Chriscdoa]

I just want check the injuries rule.

When a model is killed you do a flip (and the killing/sacrificing player can reflip)

on a 10+ they are finished off - which means they are out of the game and get to roll for an injury later

Does that mean on 1-9 they are dead?

to me that seems that you could be out of the campaign in one match if it goes badly. In losing you probably wouldnt have enough money to buy replacements, so go into the next game weaker...and lose that...Even if you win, it seems like you would spend most of your GS buying replacements for dead models rather than getting anything new.

Also the reflip means particularly evil players can cheat low to kill your forces for the future.

I thought about starting a campaign with my group but we changed our minds as we thought the game might suddenly become super defensive. In games like Mordenheim, Necromunda and Blood Bowl player deaths are quite rare - or in the case of BB you have a massive roster so its not so bad.

[BC3]

Here is how I read it:

The permanently killed effect comes from a result on the injury table.

If a model is killed under another circumstance it is not permanent.

[Bacms]

I am also thinking in running a campaign on my local club but the rules for the campaign seem a bit...problematic after a while. I like the idea but always find rules when players that win gain a lot more benefits than the ones who loose may end up going quite bad after a few games. Just my two cents

[xKoBiEx]

1-9: Will play next game with no harmful effects

10+: Finished Off - Have to roll on Injury Table

Can cheat the Finish Off roll. Cannot cheat the Injury Table.

The campaign rules allow spurts of activity. Players rolling on the injury table more could find themselves in very attractive positions, though. If they lose models, they can just play spoilers and hunt for artifacts while gaining underdog bonuses. If they gain benefits on the injury table... even better as they don't add value to your crew. Red Joker injury is very nice.

Black Joker injury is hilariously balancing, though. Player 1 is first in the campaign and rolling away with a loaded master... Master gets ganked and finished off, proceeding to flip Black Joker in post game. Underdog cries tears of joy!

[Chriscdoa]

thanks. that makes a massive difference, why doesnt it say that clearly in the rules...

Also do 1-9 rolls still leave counters? because it states finished off Models do not.

[LordZombie]

My group will be running a campaign starting this weekend. We did some houseruling here and there. I will post them up when I get them done later today.

[Justin]

1-9: Will play next game with no harmful effects

10+: Finished Off - Have to roll on Injury Table

Can cheat the Finish Off roll. Cannot cheat the Injury Table.

The campaign rules allow spurts of activity. Players rolling on the injury table more could find themselves in very attractive positions, though. If they lose models, they can just play spoilers and hunt for artifacts while gaining underdog bonuses. If they gain benefits on the injury table... even better as they don't add value to your crew. Red Joker injury is very nice.

Black Joker injury is hilariously balancing, though. Player 1 is first in the campaign and rolling away with a loaded master... Master gets ganked and finished off, proceeding to flip Black Joker in post game. Underdog cries tears of joy!

This is correct.

1-9 leave counters as normal.

[Rifter]

thanks. that makes a massive difference, why doesnt it say that clearly in the rules...

Also do 1-9 rolls still leave counters? because it states finished off Models do not.

If the flip is ten or higher, the model was “Finished Off.” Models which have been Finished Off drop no counters upon being removed from the table. Keep track of which models have been Finished Off, as this will have an effect during the Aftermath Step.

[CRC]

This is correct.

1-9 leave counters as normal.

If you don't mind my asking, what was the rationale for adding a 30% chance that models don't drop counters? I mean sure, it doesn't affect many games, but those masters that make use of counters already have enough trouble getting the counters they need...

And why is it that way around? Surely the not-finished-off models are the ones that scrambled off the field of battle and aren't available as parts.

[Rifter]

I think it has to do with the fact that those 30% are removed from the battlefield, not necessarily killed.

[CRC]

But the other 70% are explicitly not killed.

Those 30% are the ones with a chance of being killed.

The net effect is that if I'm looking for counters, I'm going to target Insignificant models, because they're still guaranteed to drop, but it seems strange...

[vulture96]

I read the rules (and the group has been playing as such in an ongoing campaign) as everyone leaves counters as normal. Otherwise, this rule unintentionally makes Rezzer crews really weak (and certain other models which rely on counters).

The only difference finished off really has is at the end of the game these models receive an injury flip and models which were not finished off do not.

The only questionable gameplay effect is models who rely on being killed (*ahem, Leveticus) - where if he is finished off it is arguable he cannot respawn (vs. Bette Noir, whose slow to die action heals all wounds and burys (if she gets a 10+).

[xKoBiEx]

@vulture96

Given the rules as they are written, Resser crews are almost broken in this campaign. Every significant model can buy Slow to Die for a 12+ and 5 scrip. The Finished Off makes your opponents weaker so it doesn't matter if you get a counter or not if you know that the model isn't coming back for the rest of the game. Ressers also have access to summoned models which cannot be finished off.

There is a McMourning player in my campaign that is running away with a 6 model Slow to Die crew consisting of a Belle, Crooked Man, Bette Noir, Molly, Sebastian, and McMourning. He also has Chihuahua which never flips and another model which hasn't been upgraded. Turn one, he gets an automatic Rogue Necromancy due to Chihuahua and Spare Parts upgrade.

Edited April 17, 2013 by xKoBiEx

[vulture96]

Honestly, I did not catch:

“Finished Off.” Models which have been Finished Off

drop no counters upon being removed from the table."

This does not make sense to me on a conceptual level ... as how does a model that has been killed - lying broken on the battlefield not leave counters, but a model which is 'injured' - who runs away when reduced to zero wounds leave a corpse? But rules are rules. Rezzer crews will have to decide whether to cheat down on a 10+ if the corpse counters are important.

A slow-to-die McMourning sounds quite powerful with his scalpel heal and healing flip ability ... you know, unless he stupidly tries to attack a model with 'use soulstones' during his slow to die action.

[Jonasty]

The only questionable gameplay effect is models who rely on being killed (*ahem, Leveticus) - where if he is finished off it is arguable he cannot respawn (vs. Bette Noir, whose slow to die action heals all wounds and burys (if she gets a 10+).

This is a valid point although with Levi it should theoretically not create too much of an issue if the player is able to use him "right". Since Levi will often be the one killing himself, especially early in the game, it would be his own controller that would flip the Finished Off card (which he could then cheat) so there's very little chance of him getting this result. And since it's a one and done, he then doesn't have to worry about this for the rest of the game no matter how many more times he dies.

[Ozz]

Indeed, Levi is one of those masters who will get upgrades but never injuries as not a lot can hurt him in turn one and most players will protect him from such a thing:)