Anyone tried Mei Feng without Rail Workers?

[daemonkin]

Hi All,

Looking to try and Run Mei Feng in different lists and to maybe use her with Wastrels and Archers/Brothers. I just love the archer models and think some customisation of Wastrels (Im looking at the RPG models) will make for a very asian-inspired/unique looking themed force.

Anyone try any of the above?

D.

[Ozz]

Whilst i dont think any Rail workers are needed for Mei, i do think that some Constructs for her will be fairly important for her bouncing around the place still so you may need to find them somewhere else to give her the mobility/safety net she likes. Though i am not yet experienced with her so i can not comment to well.

[daemonkin]

Problem is Metal Gamin are 5SS and I can't remember if Fire Gamin have construct ability. She can take them regardless of faction though. At 4SS and giving out burning tokens they can be handy.

2 Wastrels, 2 Archers, 3 fire gamin is 32 but not much else

D.

[CannonFodder]

I would say its doableinanarcanist list, but in a TT crew you need constructs to benefit from rail walk. In theory you can use a trapper and the traps, but I would think you would be limited.

Personally I don't see a loss by not using fire tokens (assuming no rail golem). I was thinking of using a single trap in conjunction with Torokage. Use the from the shadows on the trap to deploy deep. Use the 2 action to bury the Torokage. Next turn torokage switch locations with any model. Personally I was to see this done with Hans, just make him work. If he is in a good snipping position before he activates turn 2 he is usable.

[Joel]

fire gamin are constructs.

[NeuroFire]

In theory you can use a trapper and the traps, but I would think you would be limited.

Traps, certainly, but their friend the Pathfinder is not dual-faction. (Another reason they should probably have their own box, IMO.)

Fire Gamin are indeed Constructs, so a couple of those with a couple Traps should give Mei plenty to railwalk, at first, but they are both fairly easy models to take out.

I don't know if the Torakage can pull their swap with Hans, I think I remember it having to be a 10T model.

[Mr. Goggles]

You're going to be hard pressed finding other constructs for her as a 10T master. My gut reaction was to suggest LSA, but since you're running her as 10T you don't have that option. Obviously the Rail Golem is a construct, and she can take that as 10T, but from the looks of what you are thinking of using, you don't want to take something as expensive as the Rail Golem. While constructs aren't necessary for her to be effective, they do an amazing job at helping to start off her crazy trigger shenannigans, and offer a very good way to turn her (+1) Casting Expert action into an actual attack. Without Railwalker to use, you lose a pretty massive branch of her trigger tree, and considering that is what she relies on to be the most effective, you will see diminished returns in using her without those constructs.

Having said all of this, I say just go for it. See what the hell happens. Could be fun, and like you said, I think the crew would look really neat.

[Joel]

I think that railwalking is one of the most overused of Mei's abilities - so much so that its the thing that most often gets her killed.

that said, railwalking out of a fight is a very good plan quite often, but this doesnt need fast constructs, it just needs resilient ones.

for what you're planning, one metal gamin and a couple of traps would seem sufficient.

35ss list could look something like:

mei, 8ss

emberling

metal gamin

2 clockwork traps

torakage

ten thunder brother

ten thunder archer

wastrel

[Ryu]

I've run Mei fine with 3 clockwork traps to great effect. With their From the Shadows deployment and armor +3 until they move spell (not trivial to cast though) they actually become fairly hard buggers to kill for 2ss (to be clear you pass with them until something comes close and THEN use the armor +3 spell, to maximize from the shadows). With from the shadows you can place them perfectly at the start of the game. My favorite list so far is still with 1 single rail worker though, in addition to the traps.

While railwalker is important I generally don't find myself using it more than twice a game, with the important one being your first for positioning or a free Jackhammer Kick.

I've not tried wastrels, archers, or brothers with Mei yet though. Since she needs constructs you'll get a diminished return on the brothers compared to say, Misaki.

[Blog]

Fire Gamin and Metal Gamin spam gave me lots of rail points.

[Clevelander]

I've played Mei a lot for Arcanists, but not yet as 10T. I've found that the Rail Golem and one or two metal gamin are sufficient to utilize rail walker. The RG roams forward and acts as an offensive node, while the gamin are retreat anchors. Typically I just use railwalker to transform my casting expert into a pseudo nimble+melee expert. I only really feel the need for extra constructs when in a scenario like shared destroy evidence or deliver message where I need to make a (2) interact with something.

[CannonFodder]

Given the choice of Fire gamin or Rail workers, I prefer the rail workers, For gamin are just too fragile in my opinion. They are easy to take out, the rail workers have more life, hit harder, and while have less armor by default, can have more armor with the trigger.

Fire gamin are meant to get into melee and blow up, which is not Mei feng friendly.

I hadn't tried it with metal gamin, it should fit the bill.

[Odin1981]

I have played mei as 10t a couple games. Most games I have played mei with arcanists. I have used mei as 10t with this list so far emberling, 1x metal gamin, kang, 2 ninja, 1 10t brother and 7ss.

I like 2 torakage in this list due to shapes in the steam (kang + mei) and smoke bombs. My hitters are protected against ranged attacks via obscuring and ignore it when charging. Also mei as 10t I feel can do her best amount of damage via tora swap in a companion activation with both ninja's in that first swaps mei in after popping smoke down. Mei activates and scalding breath casting expert + tiger claw swings + 0 iron skin then 2nd tora goes and smokes then swaps mei out and has 1 combat 6 melee swing with a + on damage due to only friendly in combat if anything is still alive.

[Joel]

List looks solid

[daemonkin]

Yeah the main reason is to try and get some use out of my newly built archers but we will have to give it a whirl and see what happens.

Will post progress.

D.

[Odin1981]

Yeah the main reason is to try and get some use out of my newly built archers but we will have to give it a whirl and see what happens.

Will post progress.

D.

Don't get me wrong I don't think they are bad but at least with 10t you have to compare what they do to desperate mercs. Granteed misaki is better suited for mercs cause she can bring up to 4 with her. But archers are the only ranged model in 10t currently, melee models with protection and/or mobility will make a bee line for them and once engaged they die (- flip on disengaging strikes good luck with killing melee hitter with bashes ).

In that instance fire gamin could be usuable as tie up models that weaken a piece so that archers finish them off. But I think the game has evolved enough to the point that any faction has shooters whether it be inheirantly or threw mercenary addition that I really fail to see how a gamin (any other than metal) lives threw a dedicated shooters activation.

[Odin1981]

List looks solid

You been playing a similiar one joel? Or did I just give ya a good idea to try out mate? I haven't seen alot of 10t lists using two torakage much around the forum so I figured I'd give it a go at trying to make one work.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Odin1981

[sssk]

I've played quite a few games with 10t mei, and more with arcanist mei. I'm finding she doesn't need many constructs in 10t. I use railworkers because they're very good, but they certainly aren't needed. Just starting using a single metal gamin which seems very good. I'd say in a 10t list, if you have mei with a metal gamin protecting her, you really don't need any other constructs.

I'm undecided on beatsticks for mei. Kang is good, but my local meta has definitely learnt to delete him quicker than a rail worker. I'm now wondering if mei needs a beatstick at all (and thinking "probably not"). Thoughts?

[Odin1981]

I use kang with her only as 10t. I feel he isn't needed as arcanists in the configuration i normally use (kaeris + student + rail golem, or rail golem + mech rider).

I normally don't push kang in till around 3-4 right away. I also attach metal gamin to him. Normally if you go armor 4 with mei with gamin unless opponent has armor ignoring attacks they just ignore her. Armor 2 they normally feel they can bring her down but usually fail. Kang early turns is backup counter charge melee duty helping to force the enemy to over commit to whatever I use as vp grabbers. I love his inheirant knock aside trigger on anything I want away from whatever or charge+melee expert to kill a weakened model or any model without armor or h2w that is 9 wounds or less.

[Joel]

similar - no kang at the time, but rail golem instead for the extra construct.

[Ryu]

I'm undecided on beatsticks for mei. Kang is good, but my local meta has definitely learnt to delete him quicker than a rail worker. I'm now wondering if mei needs a beatstick at all (and thinking "probably not"). Thoughts?

I don't think she needs one. Like all things it depends on the strategy. I tend to play her a bit light on beaters and enjoy it.

[Alviaran]

I guess I'll fall on the other side of things. Rail Golem is a must for me. Honestly, if I'm bringing Mei as 10T, it's because of the Rail Golem. Otherwise, I'll just play straight up Misaki. I feel she is faster and more dangerous than Mei is, at least without Mei having good Rail Walk paths. So why play Mei over Misaki? Rail Golem. He's cool. He's tanky. He's a beater. And killing him is dangerous in and of itself.

And as for Rail Walking? Meh. Don't feel I need the Workers. The Golem is a single good target for me so far in a few games. Until things went south for other reasons (Rail Golem falling back is obscene), I've let the Golem go in and tank up a fight with Mei entering the fray later by Rail Walking to him from behind.

Because of her scheme, I do want to try her with ~2 traps for Rail Walk targets since she can just position them safely and zip up there while her crew fills in behind.

Kang is the one I am unsure of with Mei. He's great, but I think he overlaps a bit with the Rail Golem. Now, Kang with other 10T masters? I've been wanting to give him a whirl under McCabe for a bit, particularly once I have Traps and can use the Infiltrate Malifaux scheme with them all. Trap Stashing out Traps with the tanky Kang while Wastrels run objectives is an attractive proposition to me.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Alviaran

[Joel]

This comparison between misaki and mei is something I've heard a few times, but I'm not sure I follow the argument myself.

Misaki is nippy, certainly, and very killy against single targets - but she is also one-dimensional in that this is the only thing she does. With the exception of shadow, which is only of marginal use, she has no movement tricks that Mei does not have access to in TT. Misaki can be explosive in terms of her personal speed and power, but she's also a diva - its all about her!

Mei, on the other hand can think about the little guy - vent steam, her Wp boosting aura - as well as being a melee hitter. Misaki is a super-solo, Mei is a team leader.

If playing a full TT faction, I can see very different roles for botht he masters with not as much overlap as I first thought when book 4 released.

[Malicte]

Mei Feng has been my primary opposing master the last several weeks I've been playing, due to people in the local meta getting the "Ooh, new shinies" syndrome. From what I've run into, Mei Feng as Arcanists has a lot of good options for constructs, primarily gaining LSAs and the Mechanical Rider.

As 10T, most of the Mei lists I run into run one-two Metal Gamin and the Rail Golem. It's usually enough, but can become problematic when the Rail Golem dies, as it's the only offensive Railwalker node on the board, generally. Mei can lose a lot of time if she retreats out with Railwalker only to have her destination node destroyed. I've learned to focus down the golem to cut down on her mobility, though I suspect this may be more of a strategy to deal with my specific opponents than general.

I think 2-3 constructs is certainly sufficient, as it's important to maximize her mobility and that extra Casting Expert AP, but not so much so that you would want to sacrifice useful portions of the crew. Fortunately, one Metal Gamin and the Rail Golem are good enough to warrant being in almost any game.

[Ryu]

Just to pipe in again, I am so surprised other Mei players (10T) don't use at least 2 clockwork traps, or even 3.

They're super tanky and annoying to kill for a 2ss model - which is exactly what you want in a railwalker point. With From the Shadows you can (almost) guarantee yourself a path to wherever you want to go on turn 2; or whenever you decide to railwalk.

Generally I'll take 2-3 traps + 1 metal gamin (sometimes I even leave the gamin out, but not usually - I know it's almost like blasphemy).