Trapper - worth it?

[Yuanti]

I have played with the trapper a few times in my vikkie or von schill lists. I struggle with him because he doesn't do any damage. If he had one more minimum damage, or rapid fire, or one more point of Cb, or was one less point I would take him. As of right now, he seems to not be worth the two extra points over a friekorpman. He does not have the damage or the defense of the convict, who is one point cheaper.

I am curious if I am putting him in poor positions (usually a flanking position where he ends up being ignored due to his 1 damage per turn odds), or if he should be used as something else entirely? Objective grabber and sniper second? statistically speaking, he should do roughly 2.2 damage per round if uses focus strike instead of the 2.0 without it. It should allow cheating more often too.

Thoughts? I like the model, I like the "from the shadows" rule, and I like his range. I think he can add something to the friekorp and vikkie team, I am just not sure that it is enough to justify his spot on the roster.

[PokiePrawn]

I have tried to use him to pick of totoms, or daydreams, and your right, he just can't do it. He is doing 1 point of damage per attack unless you get really lucky. He needs Critiacal Strike. He is also kind of dead meat, often being unsupported by the rest of the crew.

He does have a couple other minor abilities such as scout that can be ok, but overall I can't use him in a competitive list.

[Tokaji]

And now with the addition of Oiran for Outcasts, I can't be bothered with Trappers at all. Even Freikorpman don't always make it in anymore. I can't wait to try out the Strongarm Suit, though.

[PokiePrawn]

I have never used it, but I think the Strongarm is stupid good. If you look at his points... he is the same as Hans, Rusty Alice, and cheaper than Jack Daw and Taelor. He is only 2 points more than a trapper! He does everything!

I think Wyrd has overall done a good job preventing power creep, but the Strongarm might be the best point for point model in the game.

Again, I am saying all this without ever actually using him, so... I guess it is a little early. It might be the Teddy/Killjoy/Peacekeeper syndrom where the other player sees it and just uses everthing on the table to take it out.

[osoi]

Th trapper is really useful in that he has a useful crew buff with guide, keeps mobile with his trigger and works really nicely against constructs and beasts. I invariably always bring him along and am never disappointed. He should always be able to get two shots a turn off from turn one and that pressure helps immensely or use him as a sniper that can close off and area of the board by walking out, getting a clear shot then repositioning back out of line of sight. He is not a staright out killer model but is a tactical model.

[Drool_bucket]

I like the trapper for his auto-trigger, re-position, and that's really all.

Having a rifle that can reach out and hit, plus having Hunter, he can reliably move himself 8" every turn while dealing out 2 points of damage. So if you take a scheme like Breakthrough he can be a real issue for the opponent to have to deal with. They are sneaky fast and marginally tough.

Honestly, he's not a bad candidate for sniping your own Desp Mercs as well, get the one wound on them so they are more effective when they go crazy....

[Yuanti]

I am aware of his faults. I think the general thought I that he isn't that good. He would be excellent for Desperate Merc zerking, as Drool_bucket points out. His severe damage is high enough that it seems like a good idea to me to focus shot and cheat in a severe card. Assuming a defense 5 model (average for what he would be shooting at), you have about a 70% chance to hit and not get an even draw. That means for most rounds if you have a severe in your hand you'll be able to drop 5 wounds on anyone in in huge 16" range. Amazing? no, but if he is activated at the end of the round after you have performed/avoided the important things, using that last severe to drop a weak model will help. If nothing, it may cause your opponent to commit something to him, in which place he can start doing his reposition/pot shot dance to give himself a turn to kite.

Am I crazy?

I think this holds true for the average freikorpman too. Same damage profile.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Yuanti

[D-A-C]

I had the idea of using Student of Conflict with the trapper (which I usually take in Von Schill Lists anyway just for theme and fun).

My Student has always been at a loss trying to keep up with Von Schill, so I thought instead that it might be alot better to have it sit beside the trapper once he is in position, and that way he is firing off 3 shots per turn.

As someone suggested above, you could focus to try and get the maximum chance of a neutral/positive flip that you can cheat in a severe, and this way you could actually get to shots off while doing it.

What do you guys think?

Edit

Just as a side note for the OP's question, is the trapper worth it compared to Hans? In other words, would Hans be a much better model for the OP than the trapper considering they fulfil the same type of role?

Edited February 25, 2013 by D-A-C

[Ironmonger]

Th trapper is really useful in that he has a useful crew buff with guide, keeps mobile with his trigger and works really nicely against constructs and beasts. I invariably always bring him along and am never disappointed. He should always be able to get two shots a turn off from turn one and that pressure helps immensely or use him as a sniper that can close off and area of the board by walking out, getting a clear shot then repositioning back out of line of sight. He is not a staright out killer model but is a tactical model.

I like the trapper for his auto-trigger, re-position, and that's really all.

Having a rifle that can reach out and hit, plus having Hunter, he can reliably move himself 8" every turn while dealing out 2 points of damage. So if you take a scheme like Breakthrough he can be a real issue for the opponent to have to deal with. They are sneaky fast and marginally tough.

Honestly, he's not a bad candidate for sniping your own Desp Mercs as well, get the one wound on them so they are more effective when they go crazy....

This and this. He's super mobile, but the reason you take him is board position and PRESSURE!!! Dance around the flanks, snipe here and there, reach out and touch anyone from masters to minions from pretty much anywhere on the board, and then either draw models off to deal with him to ensure you don't get a few lucky flips of DG, or put him in a place to meet up with your librarian/Strongarm.

[gally912]

I generally take him vs Guild/Arcanists, leave him home vs ressers/neverborn.

The first two usually have beasts or constructs and dont usually have the speed to catch up to him.

The second two force him into just plinging away for 1Dmg or are on top of him so fast/lure him away and ends up not doing much.

[Therril_83]

I like the Trapper pretty much for the reasons stated already, he's quick and can fire while moving due to his trigger.

I mostly play against the Trapper, and my regular opponent is getting quite good at using him. Deploying just slightly forward so that he can reach, but not be reached himself, and so that he can support him/back him away if he sees me coming for him.

And offensively, I agree that his weak Dg of 1 is a bit of a letdown, but picking targets is essential with him. Don't try and hit armored constructs or beasts just because you have +flip against them, you'll still only do crap dg. And don't forget he's not bad in melee either, with Cb6 and brutal. Often he's a decent bodyguard to the librarian, since they can both stand a bit behind the rest of the crew and be effective, and nothing should reach them at full health, meaning he can hopefully finish the attacker off in melee.

He's not a powerhouse that'll wreck your day to play against, but ignoring him tends to bite you in the behind.

That said, in my last game, he wrecked my Pale Rider twice.. he red jokered from the deck on a straight flip and put in 8Wds. Then I moved away and killed a couple of models getting 4Wds back and started running for his deployment zone to net me 8VPs. Trapper then focusshot and dropped the red joker from hand and did another 8..

So then he really _did_ wreck my game

[Ryu]

If you deploy him well with From the Shadows he can do some amazing things, with his 16" range. If you can deploy him in the middle of the board-ish (rare due to so many strategies being right in the center) he can cover almost the whole board depending on terrain and the height of what he's on.

Focus shot with the trapper has to be one of my new favorite things, 5 damage severe isn't great but it's nothing to sneeze at either.

However, my favorite thing to do with him is area denial. Remember that you don't have to move him or even shoot with him on the first turn. If deployed well passing on the first turn and making your opponent avoid him or send something after him is well worth the investment. One game I didn't even use him for 3 turns (pass, pass, pass), completely drew my opponent out of formation and off the strategy by doing nothing. Then the trapper shot twice and repositioned 6" away.

One thing that hasn't been pointed out: As a ground soldier he can be nigh unkillable with Von Schill. Get a few corpse counters while moving and with slow to die he can heal right up. Granted, this is not often used but it's still a possibility. He can definitely hold his own as a ground troop with DF5, reposition, and the brutal/skinning triggers on his knife should he be engaged.

[Drool_bucket]

I do not like the idea of a Student of Conflict with the Trapper... why? Cause the trapper moves about and the SoC is so darn slow.

Hans with the SoC isn't a bad idea, because for Hans to be really effective he has to stand still. But Hans only shoots one thing a turn effectively, so do you need 3 shots? Maybe, I would say that Hans with a SoC would be more of a terrain decision. If Hans could have a commanding view of the field then sure. If the field is really congested, then no...

[Yuanti]

I agree with the SoC comment. A huge advantage of the trapper is his mobility, and sticking a SoC just makes you want to limit that aspect.

I am going to go ahead and sum all this stuff up on the PullMyFinger wiki. This is much better than what is currently written for him.

[PokiePrawn]

Thanks, that Wiki needs a-LOT of updating. After reading all these comments I may give the little guy another shot.

[Yuanti]

Agreed Pokie. It made me rethink even the Freikorpsmann too. If both want to focus shot to have the most impact, severe cards are limited, then it seems obvious to me to deploy a Trapper in just about every situation where I would deploy a Freikorpsmann. Trappers are better at Objective grabbing (from the shadows, move while shooting, etc), can potentially buff your crew (meh), and have an excellent range. The 2 point SS difference is worth it in my opinion.

He may even go in my list instead of the Convict. The slow movement and lower range of the Convict really frustrate me sometimes. I prefer consistency and versatility over pure damage. I don't think I'll deploy the Trapper against Hard to Wound heavy crews though. The statistics just don't favor it. You need the higher minimum damage of Sue or CG in those places.

I edited the wiki. Feel free to check it out.

edit: not to mention the lack of scout and hunter on the CG. The Trapper is suit independent whereas the CG is fighting my vikies for masks. I frankly do not like spending masks on that chubby boy when I could be giving them to my girls.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Yuanti

[Guardian]

One thing to note, which many Guild players oversee, is that when using a watcher (which is pretty often) trapper cant use his special deployment.