The Guild Vs. Viktorias

[Adran]

There is also the option of killing your own Judge with someone like the Executioner which will a) heal the Executioner's wounds and deny your opponent the Kill Protege VP.

Correction-

The executioner only heals if it kills an enemy model.

The selected list is going to struggle against that Viks crew, as you've not picked much in the way of shooting. Some things you can try with that list are as follows.

1 Use Perdita to go after Hamelin early on. Her obey is the same range as his. Alternatively obey his minions into attacking hamelin

2 Use witchling stalkers against Hamelin. They have the reflect magic trigger at range to stop his obeys (hold on to high tomes) and when they get close, they have disrupt magic to stop his casting. There is nothing more funny than making Hamelin walk off the table to his own dance. I'm also happy for them to get engaged by the Viks in Combat, as they will hurt them when they die.

3 Keep the executioner and the Judge out of sight of Hamelin, even if this means they move slower that you want.

4The Executioner is a tough model for the Viks to kill in melee, as it will typically require at least 2 attacks and he can use his slow to die which can kill them in 1 blow. As a Vik player, I wouldn't want to put my Master next to an unactivated executioner unless i had 3 attacks or the Black Joker in my hand. I would worry enough about putting it next to an already activated one.

As the guild player here I would consider using my Obeys from Perdita to speed up his movement and get him where I want him.

In the master v master fight soulstone is your friend. You want plenty of it.

The Viks are weak to ranged damage. They have a good defense, btu its not as high as most of your Cb values. Most of your models are looking at at least 3 damage as a weak hit which very quickly brings down a Vik.

[dgraz]

I agree with a lot of Math's post above. Although Lady J with Guardian and/or Sonnia may be better in the right hands, if you're more comfortable with Perdita there is no reason she can't win. I'm most comfortable with Perdita and I don't fear the Viks using her.

I would scrap the higher cost models. I'd flood the field with 4-5ss guys and play attrition. Something like:

Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap

Perdita Ortega

--

6 Pool

Enslaved Nephilim [2ss]

• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Guild Austringer
  [5ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  

Or possibly:

Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap

Perdita Ortega

--

6 Pool

Enslaved Nephilim [2ss]

• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Guild Austringer
  [5ss]
  
  
• Guild Austringer
  [5ss]
  
  
• Watcher
  [3ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  

I'd keep the totem and Austringer/s safe in the back. An 18", CB 7, no LoS shot is a bane for Viks........and if anyone is foolish enough to get into 12" range, then 2 (or 3 or even 4 with Obey/s) is bad news indeed. If using two Austringers, keep them separate so they can't both be jumped at the same time.

Use DMs and WSs in pairs of 1 each with the WS out front - and spread out enough to prevent the Whirlwind of Doom. If a Vik charges the WS it blows up causing damage then the DM can take shots.......if they bypass the WS, they may kill the DM, but then the WS can charge in.

You must be having INCREDIBLE bad luck with the WS, they are arguably one of, if not the, BEST 4ss models in the entire game. High DF, WP, CB with a great damage track......and they blow up when they die. Keep at it with them, don't bench them...you just haven't gotten them to work yet.

The Watcher can be nice since it is a pretty fast objective grabber....it can be used later in the game to zip in when it is safer to do so. It can also be used to remove the cover bonus which can be helpful to DMs and Perdita since they aren't paired.

[sharpobjects]

+1 to everything Adran and Dgraz have stated. The only thing I will further highlight is that you try and take 8 stones with Perdita when possible. When I first loaded this thread and saw you started with 3 stones, before I even scrolled down I knew you lost. I know technically you added 2 more but at an extremely heavy cost of a scheme.

I completly agree with Dgraz crew selection the only minor change I would make is drop the totem for an 8 stone pool instead of 6. I know about the obey arguement which I can counter with perdita doing more damage or wound prevention with the 2 extra stones. Either way you want to utilize as many of the Guild's 4 stone models as possible. They are still the best in game even after 4 books.

I have never been impressed with the 7 stone models of the guild. Spamming the 4 stone guys has always proven more competitive IMO.

[dgraz]

I completly agree with Dgraz crew selection the only minor change I would make is drop the totem for an 8 stone pool instead of 6. I know about the obey arguement which I can counter with perdita doing more damage or wound prevention with the 2 extra stones.

I can't disagree.....the argument could be made for either choice. It all comes down to personal style.......I'm okay with 6ss, but I'm not usually over-aggressive with her...preferring to dash in, take a shot, and dash out - or use her to Obey....while using the totem to cast Obey on my own crew. If I was more aggressive with Perdita I would want all 8ss.

I also rarely use my ss offensively. DF8 is awesome, but it doesn't stop everything and I usually save my SS for that or damage prevention. I will also use them for an advantageous Obey if I'm not holding a high enough Mask.

I'm usually sitting on 2-3ss at the end of the game.......but again, that's due to my play-style.

[Lucidicide]

I'd take the Neph. Obey can help out quite a bit, but more importantly, model count is important when fighting the Viks. Out activating them means they can't sit back and wait until most (or all) of your models have activated.

By taking something like the Witchling Stalkers, you can move them up early. If the Viks engage them, they'll take some damage from the explosions (and a damaged Vik is a soon-to-be-dead Vik).

I'd take the two Austringers, as often the Viks rely on terrain to get close and Austringers just don't give a...

I would not take Death Marshals. They excel at ranged, and the Viks can teleport fast enough to deny you a lot of ranged via terrain.

The biggest thing, as always, is understanding what your opponent is capable of. The Viks hit like a truck, but they only have one trick up their sleeve(s). Know it and you'll see opportunities to stop them.

[NeuroFire]

Yes, Ronin are pretty amazing. I bought a blister of them for my Guild crews, and I rarely regret taking one or two. Even at the extra cost, they pull their weight.

With a Guardian in tow she is supremely dangerous to try and kill in melee.

That's a double-edged sword, though, because Viks can Whirlwind off that and... just... keep... hitting :1_Exhausted_Puppet:

(Another lesson learned after just one game against them. Avoiding that trigger is really just a small part of it, though, if my experience can be any indicator at all, because they still kill everything they touch.)

(Also, Ronin make short work of the Guardian. Without the Armor, it's just a big squishy waste of seven stones.)

The Watcher can be nice since it is a pretty fast objective grabber....it can be used later in the game to zip in when it is safer to do so. It can also be used to remove the cover bonus which can be helpful to DMs and Perdita since they aren't paired.

Don't forget the bits of deck control they can do. That's saved me from the Black Joker on more than one occasion, and can at times be used to avoid hitting your own guy when you shoot into melee. Since I will definitely agree that it's best to hold them back until later in the game, Forewarned is the perfect thing for them to be doing, it's a fantastic ability.

[Math Mathonwy]

(Also, Ronin make short work of the Guardian. Without the Armor, it's just a big squishy waste of seven stones.)

Oh aye, which is why they should be priority targets (along with Hamelin and Convict Gunslinger - that's a lot of priority targets...). But yeah, you are correct that Guardian isn't the best of choices against a Vik crew.

[Serigala]

O Sister where art thou?

Just you wait till Vanessa turns up!!

[NeuroFire]

Oh aye, which is why they should be priority targets (along with Hamelin and Convict Gunslinger - that's a lot of priority targets...).

Add the Librarian to that, since a few stones plus a Librarian hanging out with one Vik makes them essentially immortal. The whole crew being "priority targets" is part of what makes these games so frustrating for me.

And yeah, Vanessa when she comes out will be yet another priority, since there's that nasty ability to give her sisters S2D or H2K, a trait that can also make a Soulstone User nearly immortal. Add that to the Librarian! They might not even need to soak damage long enough to get healed, saving some of those stones. #@(%:1^&:*3!

[mythicFOX]

Just keep in mind how many stones we're talking about now. Von Shill + Vanessa + Librarian is 23ss, before you've paid for your cache.

The Viks don't have unlimited SS to play with and model count is important in this game.

I think something that's being overlooked here is objectives. Trying to win an strait up fight vs a crew as combat focussed as Viks is very different to beating them in the non-kill focussed strategies.

[LupusFerreus]

What about in terms of Slaughter/Contain Power scenario? The latter must be quite hard with Viks + Von Schill.

[NeuroFire]

I think something that's being overlooked here is objectives. Trying to win an strait up fight vs a crew as combat focussed as Viks is very different to beating them in the non-kill focussed strategies.

That's why I said McCabe might turn out to be a good crew against the Viks, because it's a good objective crew as well as having the potential to pin these guys down. It's frustrating (I use that word a lot when competing against the Viks) to have to build a beefy crew just to survive, when that might not be the best thing for objectives. Watchers are the best thing for objectives, and they turn into scrap ridiculously fast when facing the Viks, usually before they've picked anything up or burned it or whatever. The threat range of a Vik crew can outpace even a Watcher, which really handicaps objective grabbing; if your crew is dead, you can't get objectives. This is a big part of the problem I've had winning games against them.

Edited January 19, 2013 by NeuroFire
spellcheck

[mythicFOX]

*cough* New Gaining Grounds *cough*

[Ulfarr]

I was thinking of running lady J, Lucius, a couple of wardens and something shooty. If lucius could have the wardens handing out paralyze and LJ giving them melee expert that could be a pretty nasty combat block (those fists have a decent damage spread!).... Maybe enough to take the Viks on?

[NeuroFire]

I was thinking of running lady J, Lucius, a couple of wardens and something shooty. If lucius could have the wardens handing out paralyze and LJ giving them melee expert that could be a pretty nasty combat block (those fists have a decent damage spread!).... Maybe enough to take the Viks on?

Maybe. I don't have that much experience with Wardens (though they look pretty good) so I'd be tempted to take a couple Witchlings. Their melee combat is decently high, and their blades can inconvenience spellcasters. Plus the immolating demise.

If you want something shooty, I'd probably recommend Santiago/Santana Ortega. I just got Santana on the table this past week, and let me tell you Rapid Fire combined with Trigger Happy has some huge potential for hurt, if there's a model that just has to go down. There's also H2K and a possible healing flip for resiliency, though I've yet to test that against the Viks.

[micahwc]

Just theory here. All my experience against the vics comes from Lilith.

Witchling stalkers. If sword vick kills one she loses a third of her wounds. If she doesnt kill it, it can seriously hurt her back. 4 points.

I would think 3 or 4 of them and 2 austringers would put out some hurt on most vic lists I have played against.

Edit: I didn't read all of the post before this one. Sorry.

Edited February 22, 2013 by micahwc

[The Godlyness]

well last night viks jumped sonnnia turn 2 and killed her in one fell swoop. i came back from this by having sammy flaming bullets rapid fire face off, we traded masters and i had 3 witchlings and sammy for claim jump and he had 3 ronin for reconnoiter. some how after losing sonnia i pulled out a win (GOOD GOOD cards) <---luck)