Helping/Fixing Molly

[Gruesome]

Was this a 40ss game? That looks like 40ss worth of crew.

It *could* be a 35 point game if Molly spent her entire cache on models...

Of course then you would have Molly with NO soulstones.

Which is sort of like having a rock. A weepy rock.

I suspect typo on the (30SS) description.

EDIT: Fetid beat me to it. (Only I fit a Molly dig in too! So there!)

[Fetid Strumpet]

I don't want to dig at Molly, she is my favorite character in the game. I just wish she was mechanically worth bringing to a game, like all the other henchmen are.

[rancor709]

Im taking a firm look at molly when facing a living crew as a henchman. I'll let u know what i fundamental

[Fetid Strumpet]

You really feel taking Molly replaces taking the Dead Rider or Izamu with pretty much any resser crew, regardless of the composition? I think it has to be a replace as she's too expensive to bring in addition to one of those models

I've found even against living crews she just doesn't have the activations to get what she needs done. She'd be much better if the had Nimble or Casting Expert.

[Mordeqai]

She'd make a great 6 SS model, for what she's worth

[rancor709]

Again im looking at it, i'm fairly sure what ill find. However i have see it in practice on the table a few times. And yes a free walk action or a castibg expert would do wonders

[96p]

Molly is a pure godess if paired with a Master, there was a thread around here depicting pretty good where her power lies.

[Gruesome]

Molly is a pure godess if paired with a Master, there was a thread around here depicting pretty good where her power lies.

I seem to recall a thread like that recently...

[Rhonlore]

I feel like you guys are probably referring to this thread.

I will say that in response to that thread, I have been using Molly more often against living crews and finding some success with her. Even against those Stubborn jerks like Von Schill and his Friekorps or the Guild.

Generally I havent been using her alone, I have decided to pair her with McMourning due to just how many soulstones he gets. In a 30 point game you can take the good Doctor, Molly, Izamu and Dead Rider. And to top it all off you get 7(!!) soulstones. Sure you don't have activation advantage, but you have 4 incredibly scary and difficult to deal with models on the table all at once.

[Cats Laughing]

FWIW, My Molly-led crews have had decent success against Ten Thunders crews. I've found they bring a nice package of corpses and living models that get afraid at appropriate times.

I also haven't noticed the same reliability issues with getting Whispered Secrets off that others have mentioned. Perhaps I'm just lucky with my crows draws. I think it might be partially because Molly's hiring options don't really need crows, other than for triggers like Rot, and I'm not going to cheat in a crow just for Rot when I could save it for Molly. I do agree, however, that it would be nice to have that crow reliance mitigated. On the other hand, I've been burned on occasion by not having masks when I really want them.

I find that my hitting power is mostly wrapped up in the Rogue and keeping it alive is difficult. Sometimes I even announce Frame for Murder on the Rogue as a defensive measure (not a great option, imho). The ability to heal it (to help with survival and to keep the two heads attacks up) would be a nice boost for Molly-led crews. An alternative or second beatstick might be nice as well (neither Sybelle or Yin really count here...).

I would guess that Wyrd is not actually planning to "fix" Molly via errata at any point, as she's definitely not an overpowered negative play experience. Those OP NPE models are the models that get errata'd The option that I see happening is the release of additional models that work with Molly and help lift her up where she needs help.

Perhaps a Horror/Belle that buffs other Horrors/Belles with suits.

Or a Horror/Belle that grants other buffs to Horrors/Belles (like healing or +Damage or +Cb or +wk/cg, etc...).

Or just another beatstick Horror/Belle.

Yin is an example of this route. Not a pure fix, but movement in the right direction by adding options. I imagine the "fabled" story packs will also help Molly by introducing more options that help her game as a leader.

[rancor709]

Molly needs a few bits to function as a self contained leader like the other Henchman do. The most notable is a damaging melee infantry model. Molly's base foot soliders are not heavy on the old damage meter in the 4-5 pts range. A 4-5pt model with a damage profile similar to an ashigura or even better a punk zombie damage profile would go a long way for her as a base leader.

Molly functioning as a hench in a standard crew her primary hampering is cost to efficiency which we have discussed her big issues she doesn't dishout the damage like her brother for a 1ss more Von Schill can untop of having the mobility to really be a problem. If molly had nimble or a casting expert to go with her instinctual her 9pts would feel much more justifiable. Her support ability are interesting but for 9 stones without high damage potential her support needs to be very strong and reliable, in its present state not reliable enough to bring her over the damage options for around the same stones. Against 10t I see some potential to take advantage of some tricks with molly, but just as strong or stronger argument could be made for the traditional style of resser list against 10t, for the most part I find 10t a good match up for ressers as a whole. Undead is suppose to have a slight advantage over the living and the living when killed should help 'bolster the undeads ranks."

[chris_havoc]

Hey guys, new to the forums and everything. I'm also sorry if this is just adding onto the immense size of this forum and also posting on a thread that's been dead for a month. I have been wanting to add my two cents to this thread for a while though but haven't been able to due to my isp having a conflict with the site and not being able to post on the forum via a proxy site. >,<

Anyway. I have been playing both Molly and Seamus for about a year and I think, like most people, that some things make these guys a bit under-powered in comparison with the other masters/henchmen in the faction/game respectively. Though they are both very fun to play. Molly specifically to me competes with any crew she joins or leads on cards for example: Seamus, Yin, and even Sybelle on Masks. Another issue she faces is that 4 of her very good spells require suits to cast. While it is understandable on Undead Construction and The Philosophy of Uncertainty as these are spells that affect the game quite drastically others it seems to detriment her reliability. I also find that Whispered Secret requiring Molly to use up important Crow cards in order to then have to cast again is a bit odd given that both Miranda and Cassandra don't have to cast two spells in order to achieve the same goal. I also find it frustrating that Molly is always left behind in a Seamus crew that has all the Belles except her buffed up by 4 Wk meaning that it's very difficult for her to actually get into range to cast offensive spells without having to use up all the action points she has and so only be able to cast in the next activation.

So the changes I would suggest are fairly simple and I don't think too controversial considering the many, many ideas put forward in this thread. First, to address the movement issue, I would suggest a rule like "Seamus' Favourite" or something like that that allows her to gain +3" in stead of +2" from Seamus' Belles of the Ball ability. Granted 1" extra movement isn't huge but it does help her keep up with her friends. Like a lot of others have suggested I think Adaptive Mind or something to that effect with Crow/Mask on her casting would greatly increase her reliability in supporting a crew and diminish her very heavy card reliance. Whispered Secret I believe should not be a spell but a regular (0) action that allows Molly to select a friendly Belle or Horror in 6" and gain one of their (1) spells that can be cast once during her current activation. I'm not convinced that Molly should gain Casting Expert without being increased to 10SS. If this is something that has to be included I would suggest maybe a personalised (+1) action that allows Molly to take a wound in order to cast another (1) spell. It fits fluff wise if you call it something like "Spluttering Incantation" in line with her not being able to speak much without her choking. Alternatively a Horror model that has a similar ability to the Arcane Effigy's Conduct Aether.

Anyway, That's my two cents. Thanks for reading. I did read some of the previous posts but not all 50 pages of them so if people have already suggested these things I apologise.

[Drifter]

+1 to an extra action (Nimble / Casting Expert)

+1 to dual focused :crows :masks

These fixes wouldn't be to large and do a (needed) lot for her.

What about giving her an ability similar to Soniia's and letting her spend a soulstone to get +:crows for CA / one turn?

I'd love to see some male belle's (beaux's) for here. These guys could have something like Animisity (Seamus) and maybe it would be nice to give them some ranged weapon ability and/or a spell vs. DF and/or a small (2") with something equal to Diminished Resistance from the undead effigy. I'd also like an interaktion with Crooligans with them to boost these little, expensive guys a bit.

I'm sure Wyrd officials are reading this and I wouldn't wonder if they will fix her in the near future (or did they state anything else somewhere?).

Cheers,

Drifter

[Fetid Strumpet]

Doubt it will happen, while a segment of their fan base, me included, feel that Molly does indeed require "Fixing", I doubt that the design team feels the same. From comments that have been made across multiple threads my personal interpretation is that the developers feel that Molly is working as intended.

Add to this fact that, even if the developers felt that Molly did indeed need "Fixing", it probably wouldn't happen until a new edition of Malifaux is released. As an perceived underpowered model she isn't destroying anyone's enjoyment of the game by creating a NPE for opponents. Those that are fans of Molly buy her, come to accept she just isn't any good, then buy something else.

Given that she isn't driving people, potentially, away from the game I doubt that the company is going to devote the time and resources to increasing her power level in the game. We are most likely just going to have to accept that Molly's best role for play time on the table is reserved for fans of hers playing for fun.

[Drifter]

Doubt it will happen, while a segment of their fan base, me included, feel that Molly does indeed require "Fixing", I doubt that the design team feels the same. From comments that have been made across multiple threads my personal interpretation is that the developers feel that Molly is working as intended.

Add to this fact that, even if the developers felt that Molly did indeed need "Fixing", it probably wouldn't happen until a new edition of Malifaux is released. As an perceived underpowered model she isn't destroying anyone's enjoyment of the game by creating a NPE for opponents. Those that are fans of Molly buy her, come to accept she just isn't any good, then buy something else.

Given that she isn't driving people, potentially, away from the game I doubt that the company is going to devote the time and resources to increasing her power level in the game. We are most likely just going to have to accept that Molly's best role for play time on the table is reserved for fans of hers playing for fun.

I would support a mini KS for this to compensate for time and ressources..

Every critic on Molly here is well argumented and I think Wyrd will listen to this as they always did (but I confess there is some hope in this from my side too). We could just playtest some of our suggestions and write it down here, all Wyrd has to do then is to say "ok, you could officially draw a mask next to the feather in her cast and write +1 nimble on her card"... No, really, it would be interesting to do some inofficial playtesting and write it down her, I'll start next thursday.

Cheers,

Drifter