Turbodog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Just clarifying before I start using my new Lazarus model. Does Lazarus' armor stack with other armor? My first thought was "no" because Reinforced Patchwork Armor says: "This armor cannot be modified or ignored" But then I saw Lazarus had Evasive 2 - which grants armor +2 vs. Blasts. So is stacking armor not the same as modifying it? Does Lazarus get: Armor +1 vs. blasts (He ALWAYS gets the unmodifiable patchwork armor) Armor +2 vs. blasts (He chooses to use the evasive armor instead) Armor +3 vs. blasts (The Evasive and Patchwork armors can stack) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Csonti Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I think the cannot be modified part refers to abilities like the Large Steampunk Arachnid who can lower the Armor of a model point by point. So I would say any Armor from another source would stack normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Turbodog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hrm...interesting. So if Lazarus assimilates Armor +3 from something nearby he is treated as Armor +4 or Armor +6 vs. blasts? What happens if after assimilating this armor, the Large Steampunk Arachnid hits him and tries to reduce his armor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 CRC Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I would say that stacking counts as modifying, however, you'd be able to choose evasive and get +2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Turbodog Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 No one else weighing in? I'd like a little more than one post saying it stacks and one saying it doesn't. Q: Does reinforced patchwork armor stack with armor from other sources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tograth Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 The only armor that lazarus can ever use and/or assimilate is the armor listed on his stat card, i.e. reinforced patched armor and evasive. Against all attacks, he gains the armor from reinforced patched armor. Against blasts, he gains the armor from reinforced patched armor and his evasive. If the blast, for some reason, ignores armor, then he would only gain the armor from his reinforced patched armor. the clause that specifies that the armor cannot be modified means that he cannot use assimilate to change the armor +1 he has natively to, say, armor+3, as it would be a case of modifying the armor. This is not the case with respect to his Evasive, as this isnt a modification, but rather a stacking of the two armor types as they are both effective against blasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Sholto Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Have to agree with Tograth's conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Hateful Darkblack Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I really don't know! It seems weird that Lazarus couldn't absorb Armor +3 and use that insead (even if he doesn't get to stack it.) But I am unsure whether stacking counts as modifying. My guess would be that Tograth is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GTDemon777 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 whats the specific ruling on evasive in the rulebook? also, it could just be that evasive is different source of armor aside from the actual armor talent. so it doesnt really modify his armor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Turbodog Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Thanks for that Togarth. A clarifying question: Can Lazarus assimilate Bulletproof? based on what you said I'm guessing yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Agreen53 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Would lazarus' rule of not being able to modify his armor prevent him from receiving a bonus to his armor. Besides the guardian can't think of anything that would cause this off the top of my head, but a valid question I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Adding a bonus to armour by giving a + to armour, is modifying his armour. His armour can not be modified. It is really not that difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Then how does evasive work with patchwork armour? Or does it do nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 The evasive works on blasts that ignore armour. Like Mei's scalding breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 The evasive works on blasts that ignore armour. Like Mei's scalding breath. Evasive specifically does not work on blasts that ignore armour, ever. Evasive gives +armour against blasts. That would be modifying Lazarus' armour, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kriltic Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Then you would either use the armour from evasive only or it simply has no effect and you always use his patchwork armour. You can't modify it, whether thats improving it or reducing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Personally, I would let Lazarus stack armour from any source, but only apply the "cannot be ignored" clause to the Patchwork Armour, which always remains at 1 (since it cannot be modified). That interpretation seems possible given the current wording, and more importantly seems reasonable. So for example, Lazarus would be at Armour 3 against a blast, but only at Armour 1 if the blast ignored armour. He could also assimilate Armour 1 from some other construct, and have Armor 2 against all attacks, but be reduced to Armour 1 against attacks that ignored armour. It seems fair and balanced to me with that interpretation. Would be nice to have some official statement, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DarcXON Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I think all of this would be a lot simpler if Patchwork Armor was removed and he received Object 1. Granted this would also affect things that cause Wounds but I don't think that it would be that much of a bonus. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ratty Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 OK, it works like this.. He can gain extra Armor, but that never modifies his Patchwork Armor. So things that Ignore Armor will still Ignore the extra Armor. Eg he gets +2 Armor from an effect. He would remove 3Dg when hit. If a hit Ignored Armor, it would Ignore the +2 Armor as that don't increase his Patchwork Armor but remains a seperate modifier, but wouldn't ignore the +1 Patchwork Armor, so he could remove 1Dg from the total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Bruglyother Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 The Rat overlord has spoken. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DarcXON Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Hooray for positives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Turbodog Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 OK, it works like this.. He can gain extra Armor, but that never modifies his Patchwork Armor. So things that Ignore Armor will still Ignore the extra Armor. Eg he gets +2 Armor from an effect. He would remove 3Dg when hit. If a hit Ignored Armor, it would Ignore the +2 Armor as that don't increase his Patchwork Armor but remains a seperate modifier, but wouldn't ignore the +1 Patchwork Armor, so he could remove 1Dg from the total. Thanks, Ratty! Is it possible to put this in the model clarifications faq for the reinforced patchwork armor ability? I think this is something that (as shown by this thread) can be misinterpreted easily at first glance. Once again, super thanks for posting on this. If you get a chance, if you could look at the thread below about what Lazarus can assimilate from riders' purposes that would be ... well ... awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Cheers Ratty. Glad to see I totally called it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Sholto Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I had always assumed Lazarus could not Assimilate armour. Mannequins, here I come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BuckarooBanzai Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Evasive is not a modification to his armor, it is a seperate ability that kicks in when blast damage is done and reacts seperately from the armor (yes both will apply to blast damage). However, "stacking" is a play with words that tries to get around "modifying", they are the same. So Lazarus cannot stack (modify) his armor by absorbing it from a construct or so it seems to me. Edited November 13, 2012 by BuckarooBanzai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Sholto Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Evasive is not a modification to his armor, it is a seperate ability that kicks in when blast damage is done and reacts seperately from the armor (yes both will apply to blast damage). However, "stacking" is a play with words that tries to get around "modifying", they are the same. So Lazarus cannot stack (modify) his armor by absorbing it from a construct. I don't see how you conclude that based on what Ratty said on the previous page. Could you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
Turbodog
Just clarifying before I start using my new Lazarus model.
Does Lazarus' armor stack with other armor?
My first thought was "no" because Reinforced Patchwork Armor says: "This armor cannot be modified or ignored"
But then I saw Lazarus had Evasive 2 - which grants armor +2 vs. Blasts.
So is stacking armor not the same as modifying it?
Does Lazarus get:
Armor +1 vs. blasts (He ALWAYS gets the unmodifiable patchwork armor)
Armor +2 vs. blasts (He chooses to use the evasive armor instead)
Armor +3 vs. blasts (The Evasive and Patchwork armors can stack)
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