Hunter-thom Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I just picked up the levi box some more waifs, a DE, a few more SPAs and a few other bits and peices That could be used, but i was wondering if someone could give me a run down on how best to use him early inthe game to get out a DE for cheap (if this is possible) or any other cool moves he can do.. any Levi experts out there??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) You will find that stating a game with 4 SPA to make a DE will fall to the wayside once you get a few games under your belt and will not be your main focus with Levi. Its a great model with some serious hitting power however there is far to much at stake when you consider that all your opponent needs to do is kill a single DF4 model with 3 wounds you dismantle your plans. The DE should be more of a nice late game bonus that occurs as a result of killing your opponent rather than a starting tactical plan. Also in my mind the DE has been almost completely replaced by the Rail Golem. It hits harder, hits more often, lives longer, can block LOS and is 3 stones cheaper. Edited October 23, 2012 by Twisted Metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter-thom Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 So what would be the best kind off core crew to take, i know it comes down to schemes and strats, but what works well with him. cause i think he is going to be a little hard to learn to use. Is it best to start with a lot off SS. and in the opening moves of the game what is the best thing to do with him. i also have the avatar... and one of the riders. is his avatar any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 In terms of starting out with Levi the model that you should always hire into your crew first is a canine remains. You kill this dog and generate your second waif by casting entropic transformation on the corpse counter. This will double the survivability of Levi and will give you an extra respawn point during the game. The next thing you should always look to do during your turn is to get Levi down to one wound by casting spells cycling cards and using necromantic sacrifice. If he is down to one Wd he will die at the end of the turn but this will also give you the option to keep him alive by burning a stone to prevent the 1 wds in the event that both of his waifs got killed. This of course is a last resort. You never want to be in this situation because it is very important that he dies each turn to refresh your hand. Once you get his life / death cycle down you can start to look at some of the tricks that he can do. Levi can kill almost any model in the game during one activation. If the models has 9 wds or less you can possibly kill it with two spells. If it has more than 9 you can kill it with 3 spells. When casting spells always try to cast it with a Tome so that your draw a card off the trigger. Levi even poses a serious threat to models with Use Soul Stones by controlling his SS Flip. To do this first use your 0 action death lessons and place at least two cards back on top of your deck. The top card can be a junk card but make sure that the second card down is the highest of the three you drew. You then cast the spell, flip the junk card, cheat in a high card from you hand, and then SS to add the second card (the high card you put back) to your total. Often times this will generate RST duels in the high 20’s to low 30’s making it incredibly difficult for even masters to resist. Never forget about Levi’s Death Touch ability. His ability to hit something for 12 damage is incredible and people often do not see it coming. Also if your playing against a crew with a lot of small low wd models his spell desolation should not be over looked. Kirai players will cry the first time you nuke all of their seishin off the board. In terms of crew composition you have a ton of options. Im a fan of Ashes and Dust, Jack Daw, Bette, Rusty, Arachnid Swarms, the Riders but more specifically the Dead Rider, the Colodii puppet show, Rotten Belles, ect... Take a crew that will accomplish your strats and schemes. You will figure out what works for you and what doesn’t. Just keep in mind that Levi is a super solo and not a support master so for the most part the minions that you take won’t get that much of a boost from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've been dwelling on taking Levi some time myself. Collodi, Jack Daw and Bette all look like sound buys. Not so convinced on Ashes and Dust as a heavy hitter. It always seems to run into something, explode and then die. The sheer amount of stuff he can include is my stumbling block for Levi. Other than the above three models, I have no idea what would be good. Although I reckon I could just take Collodi, swop out Jack/Bette and use Levi to whack the big stuff ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter-thom Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 There is so so so many things to chose from... as fare as big hitters go i have teddy, Bad juju, bette (who i have never used), DE, and the frozen golem who i don't think i would ever use. Teddy is a maybe. Jack is a must i think. juju a maybe, killjoy might go alright but maybe not. Ryle can put out a fair bit of damage. so much to try out Is it worth 12p to take 4 SPAs to run them up and make a DE in the face or is it better to just take 2 and then try and make a few more through the game and make a DE that way? Can someone give me a run down on how collodi would work inthe crew??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 The only time I ever hire SPAs is when I take A&D so I can use contort to give him an extra speed boost. Otherwise I dont bother. Collodi would do what he does in any crew. Move like a demon and take down solitary models with fast, melee expert marionettes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 The only time I ever hire SPAs is when I take A&D so I can use contort to give him an extra speed boost. Otherwise I dont bother. Collodi would do what he does in any crew. Move like a demon and take down solitary models with fast, melee expert marionettes And Levi kills stragglers... This is the main thing about Collodi with Levi. Collodi is such a nuisance that it gives Levi the time he needs to violently destroy some models. At the 35 point level you can use Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Leveticus, Steampunk Necromancer -- 6 Pool Collodi [8ss] Grave Spirit [1ss] Canine Remains [2ss] Izamu, the Armor [10ss] Marionette [2ss] Marionette [2ss] Marionette [2ss] Marionette [2ss] This pretty much gives you all you need for all strategies if you want to play as Leveticus as your only caster. I still recommend having 4 SPA's and 1 Desolation Engine for those rare occasions were you get the 4 SPA's from your Necrotic Unmakings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Things to know about Leveticus: - He should die every round. Plan accordingly. - Best way to die is to bring him down to 1 Wd during his turn. That way if something goes wrong, you can spend a Soulstone to prevent the final damage each round. - You should be able to kill one big enemy within 12" every round. If the enemy thinks you're bluffing, show that you're not. - You need two Waifs. You just do. That means hiring a Canine Remains, killing it, and making a second Waif on turn one. - You need to hide the Waifs behind cover. That's basically their only defense. - Leveticus has trouble traveling a long distance -- you keep popping back to your Waifs, and if you advance them forward, they're exposed and may die. - Remember your Trigger for Spells - you should be drawing a card or two each turn from that. Edited October 23, 2012 by Hateful Darkblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Ashes and Dust takes some getting used to but what an awesome model. It can do so much that isn't apparent until you have put it on the table for a few games. The realization I had after some games with it, was that even if it was killed off for good, it did so much for accomplishing strats and schemes that it was worth it. Another thing A&D taught me about Levi is how much safer Levi is when my opponent has a scary model like A&D in to worry about. I noticed people stopped eyeballing my waifs and started worrying about how to deal with the threat. I have even been able to run with no 2nd waif (one game it made more sense to have my canine remains attack). Whether or not I make a second waif is now dependent on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 And Levi kills stragglers... This is the main thing about Collodi with Levi. Collodi is such a nuisance that it gives Levi the time he needs to violently destroy some models. At the 35 point level you can use Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Leveticus, Steampunk Necromancer -- 6 Pool Collodi [8ss] Grave Spirit [1ss] Canine Remains [2ss] Izamu, the Armor [10ss] Marionette [2ss] Marionette [2ss] Marionette [2ss] Marionette [2ss] This pretty much gives you all you need for all strategies if you want to play as Leveticus as your only caster. I still recommend having 4 SPA's and 1 Desolation Engine for those rare occasions were you get the 4 SPA's from your Necrotic Unmakings. Levi can't take totems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Levi can't take totems. Levi can't connect totems - he can have one in his crew if its connected to his Henchman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Levi can't connect totems - he can have one in his crew if its connected to his Henchman... Is that correct? His card (v3) says he can't hire totems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKerrSmith Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Indeed. His card says that he cannot hire totems. The recent FAQ changed this to 'cannot connect' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 It's interesting that Izamu has replaced the dead rider in your Levi list. They both hit just as hard but one sacrifices mobility for durability. I've also been considering this swap since the sneak peak before gencon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 It's interesting that Izamu has replaced the dead rider in your Levi list. They both hit just as hard but one sacrifices mobility for durability. I've also been considering this swap since the sneak peak before gencon. Yep, I realize that Collodi brings in enough mobility for the crew, so I needed a tank/ bodyguard of sorts. Izamu fits that roll so well I had to make the change. I notice that trend with this book, crews tweaking their setups just so slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbodog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Do people not like Lazarus in a Levi crew? I was warming up to the idea of an alternate scavenger on the board for when Levi dies so that SPAs still drop scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Do people not like Lazarus in a Levi crew? I was warming up to the idea of an alternate scavenger on the board for when Levi dies so that SPAs still drop scrap. Laza- whats now? just kidding! The main reason I don't use Lazarus is that they haven't made a decision for Use Soulstone being printed on Masters and Henchmen. Also bringing Lazarus means not bringing Izamu OR Collodi, both of which have specific jobs. Again I'm talking tourney wise, I do play casual games I haven't had a chance to play A&D so I can't say what it can or cannot do, but for 13 points it doesn't look like it does anything better than Collodi, and it doesn't look like it can survive as well. One of the things I do in basing other models is how easy it is to kill it... A&D is as easy to kill as 2 Stitched >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Laza- whats now? just kidding! The main reason I don't use Lazarus is that they haven't made a decision for Use Soulstone being printed on Masters and Henchmen. Also bringing Lazarus means not bringing Izamu OR Collodi, both of which have specific jobs. Do you think Lazarus is not worth using if he can't assimilate Use Soulstone? I haven't tried him myself, but he seems like he'd be worth his stones just as a gun platform. I haven't had a chance to play A&D so I can't say what it can or cannot do, but for 13 points it doesn't look like it does anything better than Collodi, and it doesn't look like it can survive as well. One of the things I do in basing other models is how easy it is to kill it... A&D is as easy to kill as 2 Stitched >.< Stitched are easy to kill, they just tend to dish out a lot of damage while they're dying. A&D is difficult to kill, and keeps coming back - if your opponent has a good way of countering it (Von Schill or Ototo can easily smash the Core to bits, for example) then you probably won't get much out of it, but if they don't have a direct counter, A&D is perfectly capable of killing an entire crew by itself. It's probably not as dangerous as Collodi, but bear in mind that Collodi's actual cost is 16 SS (and he has hard counters of his own). A&D also has more synergy with the usual Levi crew - the buffs to SPAs and the Desolation Engine can be really nasty. Not advocating one over the other, just pointing out that they're both really powerful (and expensive) models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 The Assimulate ruling was made a while ago - use Soulstones can be assimilated - it's in Ratty's Resolved issues sticky in the rules forum - 3rd post in - I'd link or quote it but I'm on my phone and it sucks! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 The Assimulate ruling was made a while ago - use Soulstones can be assimilated - it's in Ratty's Resolved issues sticky in the rules forum - 3rd post in - I'd link or quote it but I'm on my phone and it sucks! ;-) Of course he can only assimilate it from Ramos, Hoffman or Collodi. Or a coryphee if they've done their (0) action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I have used lazarus in a Leveticus crew for a claim jump vs. guild. The trick is to give him a construct from which he can take a useful movement talent so that he can get into a good position to be that gun platform. My list was: Leveticus 2 canine remains Bête noir 2 soulstone miners Lazarus Laz assimilated burrowing from a miner and got into position to strike. He unburied and shot at a group of ortegas (grandma, santiago, francesco) with his automatic fire. If it hadn't been for a black joker on one of the flips, all the models would have been dead from the hits and blasts. As it was, all we're reduced to 2/3 wounds and then the retaliation of gunfire took Lazarus off the board. He's potent, but not invulnerable, and I wouldn't run him if not against guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRC Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Of course he can only assimilate it from Ramos, Hoffman or Collodi. Or a coryphee if they've done their (0) action. Even if the coryphee do their action, it's still not printed on their card. He can assimilate their (0) Soul Dance action, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Do you think Lazarus is not worth using if he can't assimilate Use Soulstone? I haven't tried him myself, but he seems like he'd be worth his stones just as a gun platform. I think Lazarus is a fun model, but to make it competitive I want to have the option to make him Use Soulstones so that he can do even more. I did try him out, and without Use Soulstone he just wasn't doing enough to take over the place of the Dead Rider. I did a few games where he DID Use Soulstones from Collodi and that put him above the Dead Rider. In fact it saved me 3 Soulstones of crew creation. Stitched are easy to kill, they just tend to dish out a lot of damage while they're dying. A&D is difficult to kill, and keeps coming back - if your opponent has a good way of countering it (Von Schill or Ototo can easily smash the Core to bits, for example) then you probably won't get much out of it, but if they don't have a direct counter, A&D is perfectly capable of killing an entire crew by itself. I haven't tested it, and I only expected it to do better than a Desolation Engine (which can also do that). It's probably not as dangerous as Collodi, but bear in mind that Collodi's actual cost is 16 SS (and he has hard counters of his own). A&D also has more synergy with the usual Levi crew - the buffs to SPAs and the Desolation Engine can be really nasty. The problem is Activation Control. A&D may be able to do this, but at the cost of making itself vulnerable to the enemy. Collodi may cost 16, but he also allows me to bring Wicked Dolls (amazing objective grabbers), another model for Use Soulstones, 5 activations, Board Control, a Distraction and Board Mobility. That is quite a bit. EDITED TO ADD IN INFO Edited October 25, 2012 by DarcXON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 And now there is even more reason to take Collodi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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