Jakob Lynch and his crew - as a 10T master

[nix]

So there is a fair amount of Jakob discussion in the Neverborn forum, but some/most of that is focused on running him as a NB master. I decided to run him exclusively as 10T (at least for now) and have had a number of games with him so far. I was discussing some of my thoughts with my local group and thought it would be nice to bring the discussion over the the boards and get some wider feedback.

So far, based on whats painted and based, I have been running the following 30ss crew:

Jakob - 8 stones

Huggy

2x Beckoners

Illuminated

Graves

And then adding in a 10T brother when I jump up to 35 stones.

I am starting to settle in nicely to the idea that the core of my Jakob crew will pretty much stick with Jakob/Huggy/2x Beckoners. This is a solid base and Beckoners are amazing at spreading around brilliance.

Over the past several games I feel like I am missing a second "hitter" in the crew. Graves is a really good model but is really a control piece for me, and tends to drop fairly quickly and before he can put the hurt on anything. On the control side, Broke Something and Bars Closed have worked really well for me, but are not huge threats. I feel like dropping out Graves for one of the 10T hitters is a better way to go as this will provide a secondary threat to Huggy on the board. Both Ototo and Kang have melee expert and ways to stick around on the board dealing out tremendous pain to my opponent. While they are a bit slower, they can still keep up with the crew perfectly well.

I also think that swapping Yamaziko for the Illuminated will work well. They are the same cost but Yamaziko has reliable damage (3/3/4) and has her (0) healing. The healing will really compliment the Beckoners, and could also synergize well with Ototo/Kang. On top of all that, by moving to Yamaziko and either Ototo/Kang I will not only pick up the lost SS but at 35ss the 10T brother becomes much more useful with his companion.

Thoughts? Observations from your own Jakob as 10T games? Am I missing a trick?

[Cunning]

I agree that 2 beckoners is a must. They're amazing and insanely hard to kill with models that have brilliance.

I've only played 1 game with Lynch so far but I'm not sure about taking models outside of his core crew really. By not taking his core crew you start to lose out on the advantages of making models brilliant which along with having loads of cards is the main theme of Lynch.

[MudgeBlack]

So far I have only gotten in one game with him and I would agree with your assessment of Graves, great piece but went down quickly (not sure if it was just because he looked like the greatest threat, my opponent was running Rail Crew and he focused on Graves). Looking forward to your findings and will post mine as well. I also found Graves can REALLY burn through cards.

[wrabbit37]

I have liked bringing in a 10T Archer - if you go with two Beckoners (I'm not convinced two are a must, but they certainly are helpful) and an Archer you have a very solid ranged crew at your disposal. Beckoners can spread Brilliance and on models with higher wounds, the Archers can finish them off to bring Huggy back.

Another boon for the Archers is their arrow that gives slow to non-living models. With as many construct, undead, spirit, nightmare, soulless, etc. crews as there are out there, you run a good chance of being able to use the Archer as a control piece as well.

If you're running Huggy, one thing you can do early on (if you draw the mask you need) is have Huggy use his spell to turn your Archer (or Yamaziko, or whoever) into a Brilliant model straight away. Lets you use them to help Huggy too.

A know where you're coming from with Graves - I've actually stopped using Graves and Tannen for a while because, while they look great on paper, they're not performing as well on the table yet. I don't have Kang, so I can't try him out. Yamaziko's got some nice damage and with Spark of Youth and then Invigorating herself afterwords, she tends to come out okay as a melee hitter.

No Depleted, no Illuminated. Can you go into more detail as to why? You mentioned the Illuminated being a bit lack-luster, but I'm curious to hear more.

[nix]

I agree that 2 beckoners is a must. They're amazing and insanely hard to kill with models that have brilliance.

I've only played 1 game with Lynch so far but I'm not sure about taking models outside of his core crew really. By not taking his core crew you start to lose out on the advantages of making models brilliant which along with having loads of cards is the main theme of Lynch.

The core crew was something I was considering as well. Looking at that, what are your thoughts?

For me, Graves interacts with Brilliance by automatically getting his triggers. Broke Something is great, but has worked as a control ability for me. Locking a model down to only 2 AP is nice, but has only been a bonus for me in maybe half the situations. When Graves can drop a whollop on a key piece (Lilitu, Mature Nephilim, Young Nephilim, Peacekeeper, Rail Golem) its nice because I can strip out one of thier key attacks. I find I am not getting a lot of Brilliant onto masters though, and thats where Broke Something really can make a difference. Aside from that trigger, I do not see Graves benefiting from Brilliance much. On the other side, he does provide an anchor for bringing Huggy back out if Huggy is dead when Graves is killed.

The Illuminated benefits on his Brillshaper damage flips from brilliance, but his Terrifying ability is actually worse vs brilliant models. While the :+fate is nice vs brilliant models, I have not found it much better than a single . This might need more play to really show through, but I wonder if Yamaziko is still better with her 3/3/4 damage at 3inches and her healing spell.

Then the Depleted get a huge movement boost with brilliance. I have not played with the depleted much, and not at all in my past 6 games with the crew.

[Cunning]

I found the :+fate on the illuminated to be very handy indeed. It will almost always mean that if you hit, you're on a least a straight flip. Hard to Wound is the only thing that stops it being a definite. And then it's still quite likely.

They also help spread brilliance further with their ranged attack.

Also armour 1, regen 1 is nice, both will help to keep them alive and regen 1 makes them a nice source for Huggy to suck wds from if no enemy brilliance models are near by.

I want to try out Tannen a bit with Lynch, preventing models from drawing as many cards makes Dead Mans Hand even better than it already is. I'm just worried hes a bit fragile despite his pitiful.

The non-core model I want to try out with Lynch is the stitched. Adding gambler into the mix should add even more cards to you hand which is never a bad thing.

[Tokaji]

Stitched are pretty good with Lynch, though they struggle to keep up. With the Beckoner's 'lure' they become a little more useful, but then the Becks get a little slower. It's a bit of a trade off. Lynch is a tough crew to synergize with, but I can say that I am a little underwhelmed with the depleted minus their speed, which is fantastic. Illuminated have been fantastic minus their low cb ranged attack being the only way to spread brilliance. I find that I really have to rely on Huggy and the Becks to get the brilliance out, anything else isn't reliable.

Graves looks very situational to me. If you're playing claim jump, I can see him being the best thing ever. But at that point, I'd almost rather take Yin, as her anathema ability, and the spell that can give anathema to Huggy, is pretty encouraging. Haven't tried this out yet though.

[EnternalVoid]

I have only played Lynch as a Neverborn, our group doing a league right out of the Gencon time so I did not get really many test games in advance with him.

That said, I am sure that if I start with HD out at the beginning I am going to use his casting expert most of the time to slap some brillance on my own models. I did it last time I used him by slapping it on the Arcane and the Brutal Effigy over the first two turns to get more of my models with it as I did not have a beckoner *Did not get the models during the Gencon time, wish now I had, going to have to proxie them*. I am certain this will also be the case in a 10T list as there will be models that don't start with brillance. Another advantage I noticed though was that Lynch's spell also speed these models up on the first and second turn. This would be helpful for models like Ototo or Kang who are often stuck walking twice and then swinging. Sure it only amounts to 2" but that could be key. Really I think this is what I felt like I missed in my last games with Lynch, as said a secondary beat stick outside of the HD. Something that I know if I get a few good cards in hand I can cheat in a killing blow on many models. When we are done with the League and I have my Misaki box all together and based I might have to try a 10T with Lynch and throw in Ototo.

You can also do the movement thing on Stiched Togethers if the HD or someone gives them Brillance, extra movement on them are also nice.

I have to admit though that the Illuminated have sort of let me down a little. Don't get me wrong, they have alot of nice defensive options. Armor +1 is nice, but to add Stubborn and Regeneration 1 makes them a model that can roll with the jabs. The problem is they are still only 6 wounds, a determined heavy hitter can possible drop them in one hit and they don't have any clear options to try and avoid this. Nothing Lynch or the crew does make them take it on the chin better when someone is serious about putting them down. And while it is all nice and good to say that you have to position them, or be mindful, that is not always possible if you have an objective. Now don't get me wrong, the same can be said for some of our other options for those points. A young goes down to the same hit and does not have any way to prevent it either. But it has made me think I would rather have a few lower SS models instead of an illuminated as it is not going to be the model I want for that role.

On that thought though I have to admit that Yamaziko is an interesting idea. I had not considered it much initially but she can serve much the same role that my Brutal Effigy does in my Neverborn list for Lynch. Having a healing spell opens up alot of options and helps. Also with her ability to use SS, if you really need her to hold a spot she can use it to make her survivability something greater then her Df and hand might suggest. Also if you have a Beckoner give her Brillance she can get the extra +1 Wk from Lynch. Sadly though much of her other benifits will fall short as they will not mix well with her other talents and abilities.

[PeregrineFalcon]

The core crew was something I was considering as well. Looking at that, what are your thoughts?

For me, Graves interacts with Brilliance by automatically getting his triggers. Broke Something is great, but has worked as a control ability for me. Locking a model down to only 2 AP is nice, but has only been a bonus for me in maybe half the situations. When Graves can drop a whollop on a key piece (Lilitu, Mature Nephilim, Young Nephilim, Peacekeeper, Rail Golem) its nice because I can strip out one of thier key attacks. I find I am not getting a lot of Brilliant onto masters though, and thats where Broke Something really can make a difference. Aside from that trigger, I do not see Graves benefiting from Brilliance much. On the other side, he does provide an anchor for bringing Huggy back out if Huggy is dead when Graves is killed.

The Illuminated benefits on his Brillshaper damage flips from brilliance, but his Terrifying ability is actually worse vs brilliant models. While the :+fate is nice vs brilliant models, I have not found it much better than a single . This might need more play to really show through, but I wonder if Yamaziko is still better with her 3/3/4 damage at 3inches and her healing spell.

Then the Depleted get a huge movement boost with brilliance. I have not played with the depleted much, and not at all in my past 6 games with the crew.

I think not taking the depleated is a huge mistake. For 4SS they do a ton. Sure they can do the whole board and marker control stuff (as long as huggy is in LOS), but what no one has mentioned is taking a depleated and choosing kill protege on it. Now it may seem odd, since they are fairly tough to take down for most non-master, but the real reason is to use Huggy's "serve me" to gaurantee 2vp and 2 activations (most likely) for him.

Taking a depleated and putting kill protege on it is almost a gaurantee of 2VP.

What do you think?

[EnternalVoid]

I think not taking the depleated is a huge mistake. For 4SS they do a ton. Sure they can do the whole board and marker control stuff (as long as huggy is in LOS), but what no one has mentioned is taking a depleated and choosing kill protege on it. Now it may seem odd, since they are fairly tough to take down for most non-master, but the real reason is to use Huggy's "serve me" to gaurantee 2vp and 2 activations (most likely) for him.

Taking a depleated and putting kill protege on it is almost a gaurantee of 2VP.

What do you think?

I think this is not what you think it is. Kill Protegee is when you choice the highest ss minion in your opponent's crew and you have to kill it. You can't target your own minion with it.

[Soundwave]

I think this is not what you think it is. Kill Protegee is when you choice the highest ss minion in your opponent's crew and you have to kill it. You can't target your own minion with it.

Prolly meant frame for murder. Not sure if I'd do it, but its a good idea still.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Prolly meant frame for murder. Not sure if I'd do it, but its a good idea still.

Yeah i meant Framed for murder. Was late when I wrote this and was on my phone. But yeah framed for murder + depleated + serve me.

UPDATE: So my interpretation of the rule was completely wrong. Considering 'Framed for Murder' has to be the master that kills the model, using Serve Me, does not qualify for the victory condition of 'Framed for Murder'. Serve Me is just letting you know that it counts towards points when doing things like Slaughter, which is an important consideration for certain games. I do however, still stand by that taking a depleated is worth it. Serve Me would become completely situational though. Thanks for the clarifaction on this Tokaji.

Edited October 3, 2012 by PeregrineFalco

[Tokaji]

The problem with this is that Frame For Murder has to be done by the opponent's master specifically. I don't think the 'killed by opponent' condition in Serve Me would fit that bill. It also takes away one of The Depleted's best uses: stick them in a crowd and annoy them until they kill it, setting off the DF trigger to give them all brilliance and 2 damage.

[Cunning]

I like the idea of taking a desp merc. Giving it brilliance, then serve me for 1 turn of outrageous shooting.

[Joel]

I like the idea of taking a desp merc. Giving it brilliance, then serve me for 1 turn of outrageous shooting.

that really fits the fluff too nice idea. (*plans to paint DM tonight after all*)

[PeregrineFalcon]

You are totally correct, and was way off on this. I'm glad I came here and posted the idea, it made me realize how wrong I was on 'Framed for Murder' (I'll edit my post so no one makes the same mistake).

Getting back to the topic on hand...

I played another game with Jakob last night and it went pretty well. We played a timed 1.5 hr game (in prep for tournament play), and I was against Mei Feng. It was an amazingly fun game, we played Shared Claim Jump. I decided to take Mr. Graves, again, begrudgingly, purely for board control. Kaeris was able to get a nasty immolate off on him which did kill him on turn 2. This isn't what frustrated me about using him, its that I have yet to see his 'Bars Closed' work in my favor. Maybe its because I'm using it wrong.

I moved Graves and had him 1-2'' from the table center. Wanted to use 'Bars Closed' to push my opponents crew back. However, the way we interpreted the rule is that the push only affects models within his 6'' aura, not from the point. Which means that on turn 1 with Graves is really hard to try and push models back unless they are also in the center (i.e. right next to him). I guess the better use for 'Bars Closed' is to just use it to move your models early in the game, and use it later in the game when you need to push models off of a point.

Unless we are using 'Bars Closed' incorrectly, I don't see how he can help early game with messing up Mei Feng's rail walk (which is what I was intending to do by moving constructs out of range of her). In the end I need to find an alternative for Graves, right now I'm leaning doing a non-10T crew and having a Neverborn led crew where I choose Young Nephs. If its still a 10T crew I think Ototo is a much better alternative to Graves.

What are your guys thoughts on this?

[nix]

I just posted a Jakob Lynch (as 10T) battle report from last night on my blog. (http://deadtau.blogspot.com/).

In the game I swapped up my earlier crew a bit, with it now looking like this:

Jakob, Huggy, 2x Beckoner, Yamaziko, Kang, 8 stones

Swapping out Graves and the Illuminated for Kang and Yamaziko was great. I was facing a aRamos crew and he had Line in the Sand. Kang delivered well, and did much better in the crew than Graves has been doing for me. I did lose 2 brilliant models, but in a pinch I could have made Kang brilliant on turn 1 with Huggy's spell if it was really important. I am confident that Kang's ability to give flips on attack and casting vs unliving models would have been nice, but I didn't remember it though the game. The whole crew is living with the exception of Huggy, so Kang gives the bonus to everyone in range.

Yamaziko replacing the Illuminated was also very very nice. I have two Beckoners in the crew already so was not hurting on getting Brilliance out on the board, and Yamaziko bringing healing to the game was better than the Illuminated overall. In addition, Yamaziko's damage is not bad (3/3/4).

I still need to test some other models in the crew, but I cannot see Graves wandering back in. The extra punch from Kang (and possibly Ototo) is a huge help to Huggy and his posse.

[rancor709]

The 2xbeckoners are interesting. And the lack of illuminated are also interesting. But i find the addition of yamazika to be excellent. I alao think lynches true potential is running 10t. Any thought to torakage +graves to speed him up and make use of his flurry? I like the kang idea. Are u. Finding your resummoning Hippo multiple times a game?

[nix]

With so many 6 point models to choose from, the 2 Beckoners have been important to my crew. I will be trying to run the crew with only 1 Beckoner, but have some trepidation in doing so. 2 Beckoners and Huggy make sure that I have brilliant on any models I need it on, at any point during the turn. It also is a fairly reliable way to make sure brilliant does not drop turn to turn. I am additionally finding that judicious use of Seductive Swagger makes them pretty mobile within the game, walking into melee range of an enemy, seductive swagger past and out of melee range, then walking again.

I have thought about Torekage plus Graves for the flurry, but then realized that I can get the same 3 attacks by using Kang or Ototo in place of Graves. Both of them actually hit harder than Graves and get 3 attacks without being tied to Flurry. This ends up being better as if I kill a model on my first or second attack, I still have 1 or 2 AP to shift toward attacking another model or repositioning. If I am looking for a beater I will be looking to Ototo or Kang. If I am looking for a control piece that can hit hard, Graves is my man.

As for resummoning Huggy, I am finding that it only happens 1 time per game, but it has been reliably happening that 1 time. Timing and positioning for the resummon to happen at a key moment of the game has been a big part of playing the crew. That event is often a game turning event in the game due to the combination of Huggy being placed (instead of summoned) and the morale duel that's forced.

That brings about another point on the resummoning and on Graves/Illuminated/Depleted. All three of those models are brilliant, so Huggy can be resummoned off them when he dies. While this is nice, I am finding that it is better to resummon him off an enemy model than off my own. This is where Huggie's perm-brilliant spell and the Beckoners come into play. By making sure I activate in the right order to resummon Huggy if he dies during a turn I just need to line up my alternate hitter to target a brilliant model later in the turn. This robs my opponent of one of their models, brings back Huggy, and often lets Huggy remove another threat.

[Tokaji]

I completely agree that it's better to summon off an enemy, minus one thing: that means the opponent activates first after he's summoned. Can change a few things, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. I have actually managed to summon/resummon (started off the table) the Hippo three times in a game.

[nix]

I completely agree that it's better to summon off an enemy, minus one thing: that means the opponent activates first after he's summoned. <snip>

True. I usually try to aim for bringing him back in after the bulk of my opponents crew is activated. On the bright side, if there is a concern that I will not be able to reliably summon off an enemy model, I can always use an early mask to give Kang/Yamaziko/Ototo perm-brilliance so that if they die Huggy comes back in.

[Critfumble]

How about poor Mr. Tannen... poor, lethargic Mr.Tannen? Anyone use him successfully? Seems like his advantage comes more as a controller limiting soulstone use or your opponent's ability to cheat with a card higher than yours, or limiting opponent draw (within 6 inches). Not sure if that is worth the 6 cost and the lack of... well, anything else useful.

[PeregrineFalcon]

How about poor Mr. Tannen... poor, lethargic Mr.Tannen? Anyone use him successfully? Seems like his advantage comes more as a controller limiting soulstone use or your opponent's ability to cheat with a card higher than yours, or limiting opponent draw (within 6 inches). Not sure if that is worth the 6 cost and the lack of... well, anything else useful.

Ive played with just graves, with just tannen, and with both of them. Right now im really liking what tannen brings to a crew at the 30ss + games. In my experience he is totally worth the 6ss. Ive played a game with him and without him against mei feng and found that having him in the middle of a fight where mei feng is coming in to try her crazy combos is helpful in putting a stop to what she is trying to get off. In malifaux card/hand control is key and tannen is one of (if not) the best minions with the ability to screw your opponents hand control and cheating ability.

While not an auto take, i def always try and fit him into my crew.

[Blog]

How about poor Mr. Tannen... poor, lethargic Mr.Tannen? Anyone use him successfully? Seems like his advantage comes more as a controller limiting soulstone use or your opponent's ability to cheat with a card higher than yours, or limiting opponent draw (within 6 inches). Not sure if that is worth the 6 cost and the lack of... well, anything else useful.

Always activate him last. I've only tried him in a Pandora crew so far and he performed admirably. I managed to get his Yaaaawn trigger off on a ready to manifest mcmourning. I lol'd. He's solid for 6ss outside of jakob imo, I havent tried him with jakob yet though. I actually got to try out a Jakob crew today too. Ran him as 10. I got Line in the sand. I took, Jakob, HD (in play), 2 beckoners, an illuminated, a depleted, and 2 10T bros. WAs a great game, 4-4 tie against Mei Feng.

[omnivision6]

Always activate him last. I've only tried him in a Pandora crew so far and he performed admirably. I managed to get his Yaaaawn trigger off on a ready to manifest mcmourning. I lol'd. He's solid for 6ss outside of jakob imo, I havent tried him with jakob yet though. I actually got to try out a Jakob crew today too. Ran him as 10. I got Line in the sand. I took, Jakob, HD (in play), 2 beckoners, an illuminated, a depleted, and 2 10T bros. WAs a great game, 4-4 tie against Mei Feng.

4-4 tie? you're the worst Malifaux player ever! hahaahahha!

wut?

edit: for the unaware, Blog and I are friends, lol