Jakob Lynch and Malifaux Roulette

[Hateful Darkblack]

Jakob Lynch's Malifaux Roulette has you grab a card from the target's hand, and gets a random effect based on that.

For crows, it says "Target gains Poison 2."

Does this mean that the target's attacks are all poisoned somehow? It kind of seems like it, the way it's written.

Or does it mean that the attack gains Poison 2​, and the target now gains two Poison Tokens? That would make a lot more sense.

[roboshmoo]

The target gains 2 poison counters from the attack.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Ask him what happens if you use the trigger when your enemy has no cards? Does nothing happen?

[Hateful Darkblack]

The target gains 2 poison counters from the attack.

I figure this as well. Do you know of what rules back that up?

---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Ask him what happens if you use the trigger when your enemy has no cards? Does nothing happen?

I am pretty sure that nothing happens.

[GTDemon777]

Ask him what happens if you use the trigger when your enemy has no cards? Does nothing happen?

they get hurt from the bullet, i.e. you probably shouldnt declare the trigger since nothing can happen since the target has no crds to reveal meaning none of the effects can take place as they're reliant of the target having cards.

[CRC]

I figure this as well. Do you know of what rules back that up?

In the past they've used the phrase "target suffers Poison 2", which is more clear. It doesn't look like they intended a different meaning, but it's hard to say. If we're lucky, the card will have clearer text.

(btw, it doesn't mean "target gains 2 poison tokens", because that would apply strict addition.)

[Hateful Darkblack]

In the past they've used the phrase "target suffers Poison 2", which is more clear.

Yeah, I guess that's what I'm kind of stumbling over. Malifaux Roulette says the target "gains Poison 2" which is awfully similar to, for instance, the buff effect that a Wicked Doll gives adjacent friendly models ("gains Poison 1").

[Ciaran]

Gaining Poison 2 just means that you gain two poison counters, and they're handled as normal, as roboshmoo pointed out.

I think "target suffers poison2" makes it sound like it's an immediate thing. I prefer the new language.

---------- Post added at 05:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

Yeah, I guess that's what I'm kind of stumbling over. Malifaux Roulette says the target "gains Poison 2" which is awfully similar to, for instance, the buff effect that a Wicked Doll gives adjacent friendly models ("gains Poison 1").

The Wicked Doll specifically states the other "model's melee Strikes gain Poison 1." This means that it drops 1 Poison counter onto an enemy is hits during any of its melee strikes.

---------- Post added at 05:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 PM ----------

Or does it mean that the attack gains Poison 2​, and the target now gains two Poison Tokens? That would make a lot more sense.

This one is correct.

[The Godlyness]

Uhh the trigger is for his hold out pistol right? Would that mot mean his pistol gains poison 2.

Which ip so facto means the target he hits gains 2 poison countrts.

[Gruesome]

Uhh the trigger is for his hold out pistol right? Would that mot mean his pistol gains poison 2.

Which ip so facto means the target he hits gains 2 poison countrts.

That's not whats worded. The trigger says "Target gains Poison 2", not "Pistol gains Poison 2" and the Pistol is not the target. No, ip so facto...

Just semantics really. I thought there might be some interesting rules lawyering using Dead Rider's purpose, where he "GAINS" poison 2, which clearly was NOT that he poisoned himself. But, in re-reading it, what he "gains" is "Scythe: Poison 2".

The intent and possibly wording pretty strongly imply to me that you poisoned your target. Whenever I see someone have the poison ability, it is tied to a spell or weapon, not the model itself.

But, IANARM.

(And yes, IMO, it would have been crystal clear to say that target gets 2 poison tokens.)

[Dracomax]

The problem with saying that the target gets 2 poison tokens, is that if they had poison on them before, then it de facto becomes x+2 poison on them, which is both against previous rulings on poison, and the intent of poison.

It would have been far clearer if it had said suffers poison 2, or the attack gains poison:2.

Not having the card, I can't be sure, but has anyone considered that the "roulette" part might be implying that on that particular draw, the opponent is meant to get stronger(gain poison:2 to their attack for the round).

[Gruesome]

The problem with saying that the target gets 2 poison tokens, is that if they had poison on them before, then it de facto becomes x+2 poison on them, which is both against previous rulings on poison, and the intent of poison.

Very good point. I like your "suffer" notion.