Dark Debt Sprue Pictures

[JMGraham]

Got my order in last night and thought I'd post some (very large) sprue pictures for folks. Overall, I'm happy with them, but do wish there was more detail on them. It's a much cleaner aesthetic than I'm used to in my minis. Hopefully it'll suit itself well to my cartoonish painting style, though.

For starters, I have to make a couple of comments:

1) The packaging is HUGE compared to what's inside. Without being able to handg them the same way as a blister pack (unless stores add their own self-adhesive plastic tabs), and given the fact that the product takes up much more shelf space than a typical blister, I reckon some FLGS will have trouble carrying the whole range (as our FLGS does now). It seems they'd really have to commit to some specialized shelving. As an example, here's a peek inside the Beckoner's box:

2) The other issue I hear about is a lack of crispness in detail, particularly on the Dark Debts box set. My impression of all of the Neverborn except the DD Box was that the detail is generally quite crisp and well-defined. There's not as MUCH of the detail as there were in the metal sculpts, but what detail there is crisp and solid. The DD box, however, is a lighter shade of grey and looks much less well defined than the others, more “mushy” and “softer”. As an example, here’s a Depleted (top sprue) over an Illuminated from the DD box (bottom sprue). I’m not certain if this is a mold issue, or if they just got the plastic formula wrong for those initial casts. The plastic formula definitely IS slightly different for that one box set.

OK, on to the sprue pictures. I didn’t resize the images at all, so they are pretty huge. I’m HOPING the Wyrd forum does it’s usual reduced-size but click to see it full-size thingee. If not, you can browse the full-size pictures in my gallery here (sprue pics start after the sunsets; warning, they're big): http://www.ordofanaticus.com/gallery/v/Ordos/JMGraham/?g2_page=10

EDIT: You should be able to see the full sized pictures by clicking on each image below

The Beckoners

Mr. Tannen

Mr. Graves

The Depleted

Dark Debts Box Set

Edited September 5, 2012 by JMGraham

[Mako]

I've been waiting for mine to turn up, and this has been reassuring to see. Ok, they look to have a smoother, simpler style than some of the more recent book 2/3 stuff, but the moulding on them seems good. It seems like it's more the style that's different than the plastic not being good.

Hungering darkness is quite smooth, but I'm fine with that. He will need a careful paintjob to accentuate his shaping though.

Loading up the huge images showed me the skeleton that follows Lynch about is quite sharp on the rib detail, so it's clearly a choice not a mistake.

All in all, I reckon it looks good. Just my opinion, and when I get mine in my hands I might change my mind a bit, but these photos have been good to see.

[Darios]

might i use the Pics for Posting it elsewhere?

[JMGraham]

Yep, Overall I'm pretty pleased. From what I've seen, the Hungering Darkness might stand to be hit with some conversion work to add some detail (Chaos Spawn Sprue, I'm looking at you!). Otherwise, I'm excited to get cracking on them!

@ Darios - Absolutely, I took the pictures for the use of the community. Repost away!

[*Jack*]

Looks good, cheers.

On a side note, I dont think we'll be seeing an individual Jakob blister, nor a group illuminated blister. (And the same for mei feng, railworkers, misaki and tokkage) which means the only place to get any of these models, masters, totems, or minions, is in the box set.

Not sure how I feel about that :/

[JMGraham]

Never thought about that, but I guess that does make it unlikely to see any of the models sold separately. That's unfortunate.

I edited the initial post, so you should be able to see the full-sized picture by clicking on one of the pictures above.

[JisaacT]

Thanks for the high res pics! Your dark debts box set doesn't seem "mushy" at all. They look organic to me. They are crazy abominations! I think a bit of green stuff in the right place could really make the hungering darkness pop. Ill add my own subtle details.

[Math Mathonwy]

To me it looks kinda obvious that the boxed set is of lesser quality to the other minis displayed. The edges look less sharp and the detail is simply softer.

[pixelante]

I agree it does at that. Reminds me somewhat of my Descent set, this is not a favourable comparison. Mind you I might pick up the Beckoners as alternative showgirls for my Colette crew.

[Mako]

I found a few bits that looked just as sharp to me (skeleton ribs, the braces on the kneeling guy...) which made me think it's not the moulding but the design. Softer maybe, I can't be sure until I have mine in hand, but not because of poor casting is my guess at this point.

Could be wrong of course, and it's just guesswork and peering at pictures until I have the whole set here, but it looks like a different style more than anything in my eyes.

[mistycalla71]

I myself have looked over my hanging trees and Miss T. and have decided that the new computer system picks up the detail in direct portion and such as the drawn artwork. But our old scuplts by hand exggerations of details to make them more visible. That is simply the scuplt style our eyes are accustome too seeing in our gaming environment especially by warhammer and such. But if you were to look at wwii figures and alike there are no alteration of portions they are very normal and static. So what we have here is a combining of the two worlds were that artwork is frantically reproduced..in the end the artist's style is what will translate over into the finished product. Mr. Hungery is drawn with a spectral phantom coming forth into the material plane he isn't met to appear sharp and solid he is between those states. The plastics are not without their drawbacks but its your paint job in the end that will define them in the end.

[stinkoman]

I find it a bit disappointing that we have yet to see any of these new models painted by the studio yet.

[Math Mathonwy]

I find it a bit disappointing that we have yet to see any of these new models painted by the studio yet.

To be fair, they haven't yet been properly released.

[Backno]

I myself have looked over my hanging trees and Miss T. and have decided that the new computer system picks up the detail in direct portion and such as the drawn artwork. But our old scuplts by hand exggerations of details to make them more visible. That is simply the scuplt style our eyes are accustome too seeing in our gaming environment especially by warhammer and such. But if you were to look at wwii figures and alike there are no alteration of portions they are very normal and static. So what we have here is a combining of the two worlds were that artwork is frantically reproduced..in the end the artist's style is what will translate over into the finished product. Mr. Hungery is drawn with a spectral phantom coming forth into the material plane he isn't met to appear sharp and solid he is between those states. The plastics are not without their drawbacks but its your paint job in the end that will define them in the end.

I think this is the biggest issue. This strikes me as an issue where Wyrd now know how it looks at the end and will be able to tell the artists to either tweek the drawings of the figures so the details will end up more bold when they are put into mold form. When I compare my Rial Crew to Miss T I find the details much more crisp and I bet they will be much easier to paint.

[JMGraham]

its your paint job in the end that will define them in the end.

Really good thoughts, here, but I have to disagree a bot with this last one. When I paint, I rely ALOT on the sculpt itself to help guide me. I tend to paint in pretty broad strokes (literally, not figuratively!), and rely on the sculpt to help me make choices about where to shade, where to highlight, etc. Heck, a good, high-relief sculpt is a joy to paint - the shadowed recesses hide from your brush, ink naturally pools in the folds, and the parts to be highlighted feel like they lift themselves up to the brush. High relief sculpting is much more forgiving for beginning to moderate painters. With low relief models (like the new Wyrd plastics), it depends much more on the painter to decide where to add folds, creases, and highlights. It's more of a 2-d painting than a 3-d one. You can add relief through painting, but it requires a different set of skills than painting a high-relief model.

Still, I'm up for a challenge! I'll be getting a new brush for this crew, though - I can't be as sloppy with them as I usually am.

[dgraz]

It is a little rough to say that your paint job will help bring the model to life. There are more novice / intermediate painters than advanced ones. People that don't go beyond inking and dry-brushing (or haven't yet developed the skills to do so) will struggle with the softer details no matter what they do.

[Mako]

I'd say it's accurate that the paint job will bring the model to life, especially the hungering darkness. It's not unfair to say the onus is on the painter to make it shine, as it's true - its not going to shine on its own!

Really, it's true for every model to a degree, but the fact that the model is very unforgiving means its a much harder painting task than a sharper model would be. It's not going to be easy to give it a stunning paint job, and yes novice painters will struggle. I'm going to have to pull out every trick I have to make it work.

So in many ways, I agree with both sides. I like the model, but getting it to look good painted is going to be a test...

[dgraz]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But the fact is that not everyone can paint to that level. Most people aren't skilled at blending (two-brushing or layering) or at any other advanced techniques, whether by ability or experience. Those people are happy with a table top level paint job.

Most models you can get away with basic techniques and still have the model look decent. The soft details will make it harder for the average painter to get it to a tabletop level. If it's 'going to be a test' and you 'have to pull out all your tricks', then the novice / intermediate painter is going to really struggle.

I don't want to discourage anyone. I would love to say.....take the challenge, use this model as a reason to increase your skills, but I think that would come off as condescending.

[Mako]

I would love to say.....take the challenge, use this model as a reason to increase your skills, but I think that would come off as condescending.

I think it's the only way to look at it, you're absolutely right that basic techniques aren't going to work as well on HD as they would on the old metals (I think he's going to be the one that causes the most trouble). It is going to push people, which won't be fun for those that aren't into painting.

And I guess I am lucky that I have all the practice at display painting to draw on. When my paints arrive, I'm going to be using HD as a subject to put a lot of special techniques such as translucency and OSL into a guide (a month or two away at least though so not much help for now!).

The one thing I would say is just what you were thinking - that people should go all out on it, give it a shot, and be surprised what you can do with just a couple of extra little tweaks.

[dgraz]

translucency

Well I'm pretty freakin' intrigued by that.

[Mako]

Yah, if I get it right it should be pretty awesome. Of course, if I get it wrong, it will be really really bad.

Plus, the plan I have actually works well with the softer lines. I picked it thinking I'd have to work around any sharp details, but got lucky I guess!

I want mine to turn up so I can stop guessing and actually be sure how it all looks. It's getting annoying that it's somewhere in the country, probably in a warehouse waiting for a rubber stamp to release it to the post people!

[Mako]

Well, mine arrived today. I was going to put my thoughts here, but the post turned out huge so I put it here instead:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?35258-Another-Dark-Debts-assessment-with-photos&p=451402

[Tombanjo]

I have the same concerns regarding the LGS and shelf space. They carry almost the whole line, but I wonder how far they are willing to go..One saving grace I noticed..Nathan take note...is that is shows on the endflaps what box or fig it is...so if your shop uses shelves for boxes then it's really not that much more face room, although you lose the graphis, which might draw browsers in...

[JMGraham]

Started assembling in earnest. Models take significantly more scraping/filing work to remove the mold lines than I expected. Some of the areas are a breeze (the smooth, low-relief style of the minis is an advantage here), others are a hassle (the billowing cloud of smoke issuing from Jakob's hand), and some are a nightmare. SOme of those plastic pieces are very, very thin, and I'm constantly paranoid of breakage when removing the sprue connectors and scraping mold lines. So far, so good, haven't broken anything yet! Hard to say yet, but they also feel like a smaller scale than the metal minis. I'll have to take some side-by-side comparisons.

The number/letters on the sprues help with assembly, figuring out what piece is what. The female Illuminated ALMOST had me beat, but I think I figured it out.

The gap down the middle of Hungry Darkness is insane. Looking at the mini, I can see several places the split could have been placed that would have made it much easier. "Right down the center" seemed a poor choice. I'll be interested to see how the studio paintjob manages this gap.

If this sounds overly negative, I'm leaving out the part that I think everything will turn out all right in the end.

[Sarsnick]

This game is my first mini game ever, so I am actually enjoying putting together these plastic models. Melting things together with plastic glue is awesome and feels even more secure than the metal. Even slight screw ups (like me putting on the cane Beckoner's head on straight instead of off to the side) are kind of hidden because the joint melted together instead of large huge gaps. I also did go over Hungering's huge gaps with some plastic glue and melted it to make it more smooth (I will go over it later with some green stuff).

Something I brought up with someone at the store I play at is that Mr. Graves hand+wooden beat stick is very lacking in detail. On two of the four sides, there are grain squiggles where the other two sides are completely flat.

I painted my first malifaux figures appreciating the finer 3d detail like the wood grains in the bases, the grains in the obviously old wood of the Marshalls, and other small details.

I felt no matter how I paint this model, with my very basic skills, I will feel it will still look like a piece of plastic no matter how hard I try to give it a wood texture.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Sarsnick
removed repeat