Wrapping my head around Pandora

[bashamer]

So I understand how she works when you get everything into position, and I can see how she can move once enemy models are really close. I also really like how incite / pacify can break up a lot of combos.

So here are some questions I have;

1. how does she get to the fight, what are reliable ways to move her when enemy models are far away.

2. does the "lose immunity to wp duels" also mean that models become susceptible to morale duels ?

3. would alps create negative synergy by removing actions?

4. can you order your alp / pandora triggers to get more alps ?

[Adanedhel]

1 to options, either slowly going untill you can get there, or casting Dementia on Pandora with your totem or a Sorrow, and using the forced Wp->13 checks to push 4" due to Fading Memories

2 No, BUT: Falling back is an effect which is not only generated by Morale Duels, there are other ways to force fall back, Mental Anguish (her trigger) states enemy model Falls Back in addition to losing a Morale Duel (this makes a difference when the terrrain effect: Alone in the Dark is in effect or the Governors Proxy is in play)

3 technically, it's synergy, debuffing synergy, you're still the one profitting of the combo but yep, that works just fine as far as I see.

4 Depending on wether the Wd is done by Pandora or the Alps, since you're the attacker, you choose to resolve the order, so when failing due to their forced Wpduel, you can as far as I'm aware choose which Wds aplly first, though this cannot be used to kill a Master on 1 Wd with SelfLoathing (for her own scheme), since the Wds are done after failing to resist but before executing the effect. (This incindentally makes her own Scheme very difficult to achieve, I prefered her previous Scheme, since she had a chance in hell to succeed it, while here a good player will let his master stand on 1 Wd and say you: have fun with your master specific scheme and rather die then heal and have a chance of dying regardless)

[bashamer]

so models "immune to morale duels" are still "immune to morale duels". Only models that were "immune to morale duels" because they were "immune to willpower duels" lose their immunity.

is that correct ?

[Mike3838]

A morale duel is a subset/type of WP duel - doesn't that mean The Box Opens therefore strips both?

Mike

[Alex]

Depending on wether the Wd is done by Pandora or the Alps, since you're the attacker, you choose to resolve the order, so when failing due to their forced Wpduel, you can as far as I'm aware choose which Wds aplly first, though this cannot be used to kill a Master on 1 Wd with SelfLoathing (for her own scheme), since the Wds are done after failing to resist but before executing the effect. (This incindentally makes her own Scheme very difficult to achieve, I prefered her previous Scheme, since she had a chance in hell to succeed it, while here a good player will let his master stand on 1 Wd and say you: have fun with your master specific scheme and rather die then heal and have a chance of dying regardless)

What was her previous Master-specific scheme?

[WiLDRAGE]

A morale duel is a subset/type of WP duel - doesn't that mean The Box Opens therefore strips both?

Mike

Yes it does. It also strips Immune to Influence and Breach Psychosis (Ryle).

[Adanedhel]

Her previous Master specific scheme was to not kill a single any model with the use of a melee or ranged attack, worded in such a way that SelfLoathing was valid to succeed th scheme though.

Like and WiLDRAGE, I thought this too, but seem to recall differently in earlier posts, so I'll go look it up again

[Cunning]

The remove immunity to WP duels is tricky. Immune to influence makes a model immune to WP as the defender. Non living models are not immune to Morale duels. They just aren't affected by them which is different.

Also I believe that Pandy doesn't remove Perdita's ability where she ignores any duels that affect targetting.

[WiLDRAGE]

Like and WiLDRAGE, I thought this too, but seem to recall differently in earlier posts, so I'll go look it up again

I asked this myself a long time ago. Here's the response.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?27410-Pandora-The-Box-Opens-and-Mental-Anguish&p=347379&viewfull=1#post347379

What The Box Opens doesn't remove is things that ignore Wp duels. There's a difference between ignores and immune in game terms.

---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 AM ----------

Non living models are not immune to Morale duels. They just aren't affected by them which is different.

Sure they are, unless it is specified to the contrary: see Nightmare and Soulless vs. Construct, Undead and Spirit characteristics on Pages 9 & 10 of the rulebook. Constructs, Spirit and Undead specifically say they are non-living and immune to Morale Duels in their rules. Nightmare and Soulless only specify non-living.

All non-living does is make you unaffected by Terrifying (as per its rule), which while a Morale Duel is not the only type of Morale Duel.

Also I believe that Pandy doesn't remove Perdita's ability where she ignores any duels that affect targetting.

That's different as I mentionned in my previous [edit: merged] post. Perdita's See The Unseen allows her to ignore any spell/talent that restricts targeting which is what allows her to bypass Pandora's Expose Fears ability.

Edited May 10, 2012 by WiLDRAGE
Posts got merged, some sentences made no sense.

[bashamer]

Thanks for all the info.

I'm really tempted by her ability to break combos w/ pasify / incite. As well as her avatar (especially if you are not bringing Candy).

[AgentRock]

I'm similarly getting started with her and want to make sure I understand hoer incite/pacify tricks. If she casts incite, is she then able to use pacify that turn? Or is she stuck with whichever one she casts first for the rest of the turn? The wording seems to suggest the latter to me, but I want to be sure.

[WiLDRAGE]

I'm similarly getting started with her and want to make sure I understand hoer incite/pacify tricks. If she casts incite, is she then able to use pacify that turn? Or is she stuck with whichever one she casts first for the rest of the turn? The wording seems to suggest the latter to me, but I want to be sure.

She has to keep going with whichever one she went with. So if you Pacify, you can only Pacify again. She has no ability to get around the one (0) action per turn beyond being able to re-use the one she just used successfully.

[AgentRock]

Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

[Sarsnick]

Immune to Influence does not prevent a Terrifying check. When going up against a Terrifying check (WP -> TN) the arrow shows us the model is using its WP to beat the number, not to defend against it.