marshimartian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yes, this is a rant thread, not about Wyrd or Malifaux, but gaming in general. Why do people take themselves and the games they play so seriously? I play games to have fun, and I'd much rather have fun losing than win a miserable game. And I've definitely had some epic losses (like twice in the same game of pwars, I dodged with an Ace, and my opponent flipped the same Ace on attack) So why is it that some people play even casual games (including ones they're playing for the first time) as if they have to win at all costs? These same people become horribly poor sports when they even think that they might be losing. What's even worse is when they're being poor sports the whole game, and they still manage to win, so you just sat through a miserable game, and lost anyway. It's not like there's anything riding on these games, so why ruin the fun? Worse yet is when you're playing a game for the first time, and one person takes the time to read the rules (usually me) and then you get accused of cheating every time a rule comes up that you didn't explicitly state when the game stated. For the love of gaming, have fun, and don't be a jerk, or you'll ruin it for everyone. DISCLAIMER: remember, this is a rant about gaming in general, and relates more to board gaming than to miniature gaming, nothing to do with Wyrd or Malifaux specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadilon Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Good post. I have to admit, I am the kind of person you are talking about - to a degree. I take the games seriously. Its something I am recognizing in myself and working to tone down. But I enjoy being competitive and think that a healthy level of competition is a fine thing. From my perspective, I find a great deal of enjoyment from making the outcome of the game mean something. The closest example I can come to is in professional sports. If you are watching a football game and you don't care about the teams or the outcome, its pretty lack luster. But if you are watching YOUR team (the Colts in my case), and you become emotionally invested in the outcome, the adrenaline and excitement becomes almost drug-like. It really feels good when things go well. On the other hand, when things go poorly, your emotion swings the other way too. There are a lot of reasons I play table-top games. I do enjoy meeting with friends and discussing what is going on in their lives and talk about the topics of the day. I also enjoy the emotional, competitive investment in testing myself against them. At the end of the day, when I go home with a win or two, I really feel good, just like I'd feel after a Colts win. Now, I also feel bad after a loss, and that is the thing that is not so healthy and that I am working on. Don't get me wrong, I've never thrown a model or anything, but I have in the past gotten a little 'short' with people when the game turns against me. The last thing I want to be is a 'jerk' and I agree with you there. To summarize my rambling: I agree that being so into the game that you're a jerk is disrespectful to all concerned. On the other hand, I have to play to win, or what's the point? I think there is a balance there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Smigs Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 i've been wondering the same for the last few years... now, a lot of it has to do with who you play.... some game crowds are just uber-aggressive... I know back in MK1, Warmachine players prided themselves on the Page 5 mentality... it attracted some players, and drove off others... creating a community where no one saw a problem with "play for the win" since that's what the game advertised... other games I've played since, haven't gone that route... with many being specifically designed where a tourney is terribly hard to organize since the standard gameplay isn't balanced (look at Flames of War for example) the "problem" (IMO) hits when a game that seemed to advertise a "play for fun, not profit" mentality then realizes the kind of sales a tournament-based game gets, and tries to get in on that action... then you get the casual players eventually clashing with the hard-core players... the up side is, rules get streamlines darn quick to make up for the "tight" play of the tournament crowd... the down side is, veteran players who were there for fun, walk away. (i've seen that happen with a number of games at my LGS... when we rolled casual, we had huge player bases... then when we tried to run a tourney, the player base diminished notably...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePandaDirector Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 While I can see both your points of view, I see the best form of gaming to be co-operative. You're not playing a game so you can spend the whole time not playing, you're not playing because you love the models, you're playing because you love the game and you love the social interaction of playing it with someone. As such the game is important, and it's important to invest in it to get maximum return. But at the same time, even though one must win and one must lose, the game is a co-operative experience. This is because you are both equally integral to each others enjoyment. Doesn't matter who the sore loser or winner is, or who doesn't take the game seriously enough, both players suffer. So I make sure that I go in with an understanding of who I'm playing, and the best way to conduct myself accordingly. If they take the game quite seriously and genuinely want to get better, I'll talk about rules, strategy, etc. I'll try and help them or help them help me. If they're too casual and keep getting distracted, I'll try and do things intentionally that may not be the most sound decision (the result usually being random), but are more fun and engaging for someone who gets excitied by those sort of things. I do this because I know that there is a player for every experience I could ever want, and it's better to go with the flow. That said, I do have my preferences, but my biggest preference is that both my opponent and I enjoy the game. I take that philosophy very seriously But if you act like a child, I'll treat you like one, no matter how many years my senior you are =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefHeart Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 !First Post Here! Great board you got goin,btw, great info for a Malifaux noob... My 2 cents on the subject... There is no accounting for jerks. More than likely they never were on a winning team when they were younger and thus never learned about what it means to be a good sport. Or, on the flip side, perhaps the "winning" mentality was beat into them by horrible parenting. Again, in the formative years. I pity these types for they will never understand what it means to have an enjoyable game. I have no problem playing really competitive people but that is much different than a d-bag who will disputes every move you make or contests every interpretation of the rules. I've known more than a few of these folks over the years. There are just some people who will never understand that it's more fun to play game With people and not Against them. It's important to remember that these games we play are a shared experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePandaDirector Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Welcome beefheart, I think you'll find not many jerks on this forum (except for all those Gremlins) I haven't met these people for a long time but if I ever do again, I'll be sure to treat them like a child and generally prod every other aspect of them except their player skill. One of my best friends is also one of the most arrogant, egotistic gits I know, and he knows it, so has no problem with me constantly ripping into him, because he's not insecure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I don't get why people take Malifaux so seriously, surely it's the taking part that counts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I don't get why people take Malifaux so seriously, surely it's the taking part that counts? LOL Probably your best ever post - hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadilon Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 LOL Probably your best ever post - hilarious. Ok, I'll admit it. I don't get it. Is it a UK thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Ok, I'll admit it. I don't get it. Is it a UK thing? Ah, magicpockets is, I believe, rather well known for being both willing and able to find ways to make Master he sets his mind to appear very much overpowered or, in other words, "break" them. Personally I see the game as a way to improve my thinking abilities and help other people improve theirs. I have no qualms, in the middle of a game, in honestly telling people what I am aiming to do and ask them if they think it would be a good idea, warn them that I have a particularly poor or good hand and thus may have a different playstyle or other such things which might raise some eyebrows. If there is honest communication, there is potential for great improvement in both players, meaning the next games ought to be even more intelectually stimulating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Ok, I'll admit it. I don't get it. Is it a UK thing? Its a magicpockets thing! He tends to play serious in club games and steps it up for tournaments! Nice guy though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunce002917 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think these uber serious players are compensating for something else in their real lives.. I've played a few of those and I just leave them alone. just my 2 soul stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustcrusher Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 We have an odd mix- most of the Malifaux players aren't ultra-competitive, at least not outside of actual tournaments. I fall on the more casual side of things mostly. I do tend to get frustrated, however, when I am so hopelessly destroyed by my opponent that I felt like the whole game was an exercise in futility. Luckily, Warmachine's caster kill mechanic was a warning sign for me- I think I would absolutely hate it had I stuck it out. Cool models and such, and I like how they made it as tight as they could for tournament play, but it sounds like a casual player's nightmare. If I am outplayed but it's still interesting, that's cool. If it's a narrow loss, it might be a little frustrating but those are usually the most fun in any case. Hard-fought wins are sweet. When a game is so lopsided (either way) that I wonder why I even bothered to show up, I do tend to get irritated. I hate ridiculously lopsided wins only slightly less than equally one-sided losses, because it means one of the players probably didn't have much fun. I do my best to prevent the wins (in the few instances where that happens). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshimartian Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, and like I said guys, this isn't just about Malifaux. But yea, when your opponent is being such a poor sport that they're tossing cards or counters (especially when it's your game that they're tossing around) it just is a horrible time. Why sacrifice the fun to win, when nothing is riding on it? Tournaments and tournament prep games are completely different, and not everyone can enjoy tournaments. I guess it works both ways that not everyone can enjoy casual play. What really irks me is when you're showing a person how to play a game for the first time (as in, they don't even know how to play yet) and they get upset, and try to game it, and still try to win at all costs. For heavens sake, just sit through the game, and then if you want to play again once you know what's going on, I'll play again (probably). Dunce may have it right on though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oathborne Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I find that I police myself a lot. I try and stay away from players/people that have a personality that clashes with mine. My best friend and I play Warmachine. However he plays a faction which I find extremely irritating. So after a few of the games that the OP described in his post, we both decided that we would rather stay friends than lose a friendship over a game. Thus we don't play against each other if possible. Other people in our gaming community are fun to play not matter what they play. Which brings me to the topic of why I play Malifaux: I've found that I have fun no matter if I'm winning or getting my butt handed to me. So I understand what the OP is trying to say. It seems that there are just some games people take WAY too seriously and will stop at nothing to win. For me, it is all about the modeling aspect of the hobby anyway. I'd much rather have my opponent pick up one of my models and say, "Wow! That really looks great!" than win anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think these uber serious players are compensating for something else in their real lives.. Nope, I'm just good at everything On a serious note (no pun intended) I think there's a time and a place for being serious and a time to play for kicks. For example, UK Masters is a time to be hyper serious - I took my best lists and power-gamed all the way. Other "local" tournaments (assuming I'm not practicing with my main crew at the time) I like to take fun lists and still try and win stuff (i.e. LadyJ and 8 DMs having never played Guild before). Around that I'll always try to win (and sulk if I lose) but I play fairly laid back. Plus, not matter what event I'm always happy to answer questions and point out abilities I'm planning to use later which I don't think my opponent is aware of (i.e. "just to check, are you planning on x? Did you know my model does y?") it's better to win on skill than because your opponent doesn't know something you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustcrusher Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I also hate sore winners. Gonna blog about this one, but long story short, if someone concedes and it isn't a tournament where win margins are crucial, for Kythera's sake take the win and let him go the !@%$ home instead of insisting on dragging it out until you've tabled him. If it wasn't a demo I would've just started packing my stuff up as soon as I knew I couldn't even draw... ---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ---------- Nope, I'm just good at everything If we ever get the chance to meet, karaoke contest. Then again, if the sets were pre-determined, mine would end up being Twista and Busta Rhymes tracks, Billy Joel's "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant", and showtunes while you'd get "I'm a Little Teapot", Third Eye Blind and Oasis. So yeah, if we do this, we each choose our own songs :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunce002917 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Nope, I'm just good at everything On a serious note (no pun intended) I think there's a time and a place for being serious and a time to play for kicks. For example, UK Masters is a time to be hyper serious - I took my best lists and power-gamed all the way. Other "local" tournaments (assuming I'm not practicing with my main crew at the time) I like to take fun lists and still try and win stuff (i.e. LadyJ and 8 DMs having never played Guild before). Around that I'll always try to win (and sulk if I lose) but I play fairly laid back. Plus, not matter what event I'm always happy to answer questions and point out abilities I'm planning to use later which I don't think my opponent is aware of (i.e. "just to check, are you planning on x? Did you know my model does y?") it's better to win on skill than because your opponent doesn't know something you do I agree... tournaments... yeah, all bets are off... but still no need to obliterate your opponent unless the losing guy is a sore loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 but still no need to obliterate your opponent unless the losing guy is a sore loser. Or he's ukRocky..... *wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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