How to Beat Hamelin.

[TimeLapse]

Beating Hamelin,

by a Hamelin player

Hey all. Seeing a lot of players complain about little old Hamelin has got me scratching my head. In all the list I own and play I find Hamelin is fun to play but one of my weaker lists, this is due to some key weakness and lack of useful variety in his lists. The top three lists I own and I think my local players may agree, is Perdita, Nicadem and Von Schill. It may just be the way I play them but they seem much more effective in games then Hamelin this may be because most of the players around here know how to deal with him or just ignore him for the most part and just go for there VP and out scoring him.

Anyways the best way to find an armies weakness and exploit it is to play the army your self, not just one game but 2 or 3. Each time you build the list you will see what it lacks. My advice is ask the player in your group that runs him to let you play with his army in either an army swap just for those games or have him play one of his other armies. He will know how to take down his own master and in these games he may just show you, weather on purpose or just by trying to win himself. Never play a mater you want to learn how to beat vs the same master the outcomes never really help make sure you are both playing different armies.

But if you can not get your hands on a Hamelin army to play around with here is some of my thoughts on weakness in the list.

Now to my tactics on beating Hamelin, Since rat catchers is what i hear the most about thats what ill focus on for this first post,

Rat catcher

My friend Nathan just wanted me to post these words and nothing else in this post "Use Terrifying models." and it is one of the keys to beating the list, every army has one or two Terrifying models in there faction and all you need is Terrifying 10 or better to be effective. You see when you have a swarm of 3+ rats with only WP 4 you are not guaranteed to pass all those moral tests, and being somewhat limited in cards it would be irresponsible to waste them on the countless moral duels the rats may face. These tests will force the rat swarm to run away, and if your lucky the rat catcher will to. If not he will no longer have armor so you can kill him easily.

Other ways to deal with Rat Catchers

First off if you focus you can kill the Catchers even with there armor 2, they only have 6 health. If you wait till after they activate then they wont be able to heal so easily. Make a note of what models you can take that can Ignore armor and make a spacial not of Ronin and Hans.

Ronin sword has a 2 inch reach with a built in +1 to damage flips and ignores armor. You have some great movement abilities and triggers along with a good damage spread, there great at making surgical strikes to take out catchers.

Hans with his errata has a rams in his CB making Critical strike and auto trigger making his weak damage 3, with his spell he can ignore armor. Read through his goggles and sniper abilities these make it almost impossible to hide from

Hans and he can, in one turn, kill a rat catcher. Remember that rats and Catchers are living so after killing all the Rat catchers you could use Explosive ammo to do AOEs on the rats, if you focus strike then you don’t have to worry about the Tiny aspect, and then you also get a +2 to your damage flip on top of any other bonus that you might get you could kill them all in one strike this way.

　

Also remember spells that deal wds, like Punk Zombies and other models like them, since wds ignore armor.

You can also push and/or obey the catcher away from his rats, this will negate his armor.

Remember sacrificing models dont summon rats so devour w/hell cats or spells that sacrificed targets instead of killing become more useful. Watch out for nix when doing this.

Key Models to strike

Focus on the three key models The Rat catchers, Hamelin and Nix. Then focus on the rats. Make the Hamelin player come to you, if he is spending AP moving he can’t use it to attack you. So make Hamelin move if he wants to cast or use his range spells on you. Hamelin normally uses one of his AP to make a Stolen and so after moveing he will only have one more AP to use VS you. So don’t make it easy by moving towards him unless your goals for Victory Points force you to.

Side notes to keep tabs on

Take note on what cards are on top of your opponents discard pile. If you can help it don’t cheat if they have a 9 or better card on top of there discard pile, yes he will draw a card from the top of his deck but you don’t want to give him high cards if you can help it.

Don’t think that Hamelin is just a caster, he will spend a lot of time trying to make your key models insignificant, time he could be using to kill them but no matter, most Hamelin players are afraid of losing Hamelin even if he/she has stolen in play because his -4 CA does hurt, don’t let other Hamelin players tell you otherwise.

But as I was saying, don’t think he is just a caster, he has a nasty close combat strike (the first strike damage will be cheat able if he wins no matter what if he uses his 0 action to ignore - and + flips.) And it will most likely do 9 wounds. So be carful when moving melee models to kill Hamelin. He also has a tricky range attack with CB 7 that could cause an obey effect and make you insignificant so be carful of him like I said earlier keep him moving so he wastes AP.

If VP are dependent on having none insignificant models then focus on killing Nix and Hamelin, since they make there insignificant models significant. Otherwise you don’t have to really worry too much about it, kill nix fast if you can he can be troublesome if he is in your personal space.

I could go on and on but this should give you some ideas, but I do stress playing the army yourself will help you understand it so if your Hamelin players are nice I don’t think there mind loaning you there lists for a few games. =)

Well I hope this helps, If any one has other ideas feel free to add them its late so im going to bed but I may post more of my thoughts on this latter.

Andrew Haught.

Edited December 2, 2011 by TimeLapse

[dsmiles]

Don't forget about just plain out-activating him.

[magicpockets]

Comments for you from the flip side -

Rat catcher

My friend Nathan just wanted me to post these words and nothing else in this post "Use Terrifying models." and it is one of the keys to beating the list, every army has one or two Terrifying models in there faction and all you need is Terrifying 10 or better to be effective. You see when you have a swarm of 3+ rats with only WP 4 you are not guaranteed to pass all those moral tests, and being somewhat limited in cards it would be irresponsible to waste them on the countless moral duels the rats may face. These tests will force the rat swarm to run away, and if your lucky the rat catcher will to. If not he will no longer have armor so you can kill him easily.

Terrifying is great vs Rats etc, but remember a (0) Kill All Rats from the RC will get you new rats which aren't running away. Also, against Terrifying heavy crews a good Hamelin player will weight the list towards canine remains and stolen which aren't affected by terrifying.

First off if you focus you can kill the Catchers even with there armor 2, they only have 6 health. If you wait till after they activate then they wont be able to heal so easily.

Rats can kill each other (and be killed by other models) at the minute which lets the RC heal up

Make a note of what models you can take that can Ignore armor and make a spacial not of Ronin and Hans.

Very good advice. So advice to Hamelin players would be to cuddle these as soon as possible or put Nix in there for the flip on attacks

Ronin sword has a 2 inch reach with a built in +1 to damage flips and ignores armor. You have some great movement abilities and triggers along with a good damage spread, there great at making surgical strikes to take out catchers.

Ronin are very good, and they work well against Nix too.

Hans with his errata has a rams in his CB making Critical strike and auto trigger making his weak damage 3, with his spell he can ignore armor. Read through his goggles and sniper abilities these make it almost impossible to hide from

Hans and he can, in one turn, kill a rat catcher. Remember that rats and Catchers are living so after killing all the Rat catchers you could use Explosive ammo to do AOEs on the rats, if you focus strike then you don’t have to worry about the Tiny aspect, and then you also get a +2 to your damage flip on top of any other bonus that you might get you could kill them all in one strike this way.

Never played against Hans but sounds very potent

Also remember spells that deal wds, like Punk Zombies and other models like them, since wds ignore armor.

You can also push and/or obey the catcher away from his rats, this will negate his armor.

This is good but quite hard to do and sustain (without him moving back or the rats catching him up)

Remember sacrificing models dont summon rats so devour w/hell cats or spells that sacrificed targets instead of killing become more useful. Watch out for nix when doing this.

Gaki are awesome against rats

Key Models to strike

Focus on the three key models The Rat catchers, Hamelin and Nix. Then focus on the rats. Make the Hamelin player come to you, if he is spending AP moving he can’t use it to attack you. So make Hamelin move if he wants to cast or use his range spells on you. Hamelin normally uses one of his AP to make a Stolen and so after moveing he will only have one more AP to use VS you. So don’t make it easy by moving towards him unless your goals for Victory Points force you to.

Side notes to keep tabs on

Since the Hamelin errata he will very rarely spend an AP to make a stolen unless he's setting up the -2WP debuff or going to obey you to attack it (and give you paralysed). Nix is the key lynchpin to take out, although it's VERY hard to do

Don’t think that Hamelin is just a caster, he will spend a lot of time trying to make your key models insignificant, time he could be using to kill them but no matter, most Hamelin players are afraid of losing Hamelin even if he/she has stolen in play because his -4 CA does hurt, don’t let other Hamelin players tell you otherwise.

The -4Ca isn't great but I'm never scared of losing Hamelin. For me his power is in melee, then making things insignificant, then in casting support spells. I'll happily throw Hamelin into a group of models to kill a key one, let them kill him and then bring him back next turn via a Stolen. My advice is to go after his Stolen first, I know I'd play a lot more carefuly with no or 1 stolen left.

But as I was saying, don’t think he is just a caster, he has a nasty close combat strike (the first strike damage will be cheat able if he wins no matter what if he uses his 0 action to ignore - and + flips.) And it will most likely do 9 wounds. So be carful when moving melee models to kill Hamelin. He also has a tricky range attack with CB 7 that could cause an obey effect and make you insignificant so be carful of him like I said earlier keep him moving so he wastes AP.

I'm not sold on the "keep him moving" advice. There's so much in his crew that will eat you if you're wasting AP on running away - and so many schemes and strategies need you to be in a certain place at a predictable time.

If VP are dependent on having none insignificant models then focus on killing Nix and Hamelin, since they make there insignificant models significant. Otherwise you don’t have to really worry too much about it, kill nix fast if you can he can be troublesome if he is in your personal space.

Great advice about Cuddling Nihilism (this is often overlooked by opponents). And I'd strongly agree with killing Nix asap.

[rancor709]

Nice write up. Very well stated and helpful. Absolutely true switch armies benefits both players and strengthens the community. Not to mention it could lead to additional sales. Which is win for the community more players more incentive for wyrd to produce. And for wyrd as more money in the coffers hurts no one so long as its from organic growth and not a money grab read as gw.

[TimeLapse]

Comments for you from the flip side -

Hmm grrr why you make Andrew think! ? =P

Terrifying is great vs Rats etc, but remember a (0) Kill All Rats from the RC will get you new rats which aren't running away. Also, against Terrifying heavy crews a good Hamelin player will weight the list towards canine remains and stolen which aren't affected by terrifying.

Ture but Canine remains don't give the rat catcher amor 2 and they need to be near on or hamelin to become rats or they just die and that isn't really a problem like rats can be.

You can slaughter rats to get away from rallying but you still fall back (that's 10 inches) with each rat before this happens. Also if the rats are slaughtered and brought bach the model that is terrifying will still be so and the rats will have to side step him to get ahead in the game.

Rats can kill each other (and be killed by other models) at the minute which lets the RC heal up

This is true and highlights why its good to stike at the rat catcher after he and the rats activate for the turn.

Very good advice. So advice to Hamelin players would be to cuddle these as soon as possible or put Nix in there for the flip on attacks

true you have to plan out how you are going to get your anti armor player going.

Nix players should also remember that his -1 flip also affects the rats and the rat catcher making shooting at the catcher that is in nix range awesome since he would get a -1 to his defence flips.

Ronin are very good, and they work well against Nix too.

Yes and with a base cost of 5, 6 if taken out of faction there a cheep sorce of awesomeness. A cheep trick with them is to only hire one and summon another durring your first turn and it will cost you 5ss instead of six. Always for hire is handy, it also let's you summen one near or in combat if your master is in the fray and you keep you other ronin back..

Never played against Hans but sounds very potent

Vs lists like hamelin he is ideal, he is great at dealing alot of damage to one target a turn, so he is great to take out beacon type models with an aoe effect.

This is good but quite hard to do and sustain (without him moving back or the rats catching him up)

this is true that's why timming is everything and if you can't kill him after this then I wouldn't do it.

Gaki are awesome against rats

True that, gaki are plan and simply awesome vs everything.

Since the Hamelin errata he will very rarely spend an AP to make a stolen unless he's setting up the -2WP debuff or going to obey you to attack it (and give you paralysed). Nix is the key lynchpin to take out, although it's VERY hard to do

Yes and no, Hamelins key spell "understand the souless" sacks models to go off having a stolen to sack is useful since he becomes a rat. Abandoned soul is also a good sacking skill. So having a stolen to sacrifice is important along with one or two as a safty net.

The -4Ca isn't great but I'm never scared of losing Hamelin. For me his power is in melee, then making things insignificant, then in casting support spells. I'll happily throw Hamelin into a group of models to kill a key one, let them kill him and then bring him back next turn via a Stolen. My advice is to go after his Stolen first, I know I'd play a lot more carefuly with no or 1 stolen left.

True, I am not saying don't go after the stolen im just saying killing hamelin even with stolen hidden has some + sides, first off is the -4 cb also something I didn't say was that if he still has stolen because he hid them back and out of the way well then hamelin will then be placed back and out of the way limiting his next turns usefulness allowing you more time to claim your vps.

I'm not sold on the "keep him moving" advice. There's so much in his crew that will eat you if you're wasting AP on running away - and so many schemes and strategies need you to be in a certain place at a predictable time.

im not really saying run away as much as I mean let him come to you, most games I won with hamelin is because players move to me, I stay in. Y deployment zone making stolen and such and then on turn two he oves over in my range, so I can hit him on my terms. Not pushing the attack if you don't have to and making the hamilin player move to you gives you the ablity to react to his movement.

Great advice about Cuddling Nihilism (this is often overlooked by opponents). And I'd strongly agree with killing Nix asap.

Thanks for your counter point it made me think and gave me some new ideas.

-Andrew

[magicpockets]

I think this is ione of the best anti-Hamelin write ups I've seen mate, so no worries

[Serigala]

I think we would all be better off if half the effort people put into writing tactica and such, went into writing articles like this on how to beat a particular Master.

A tactica is of real relevance to maybe 20% of the gaming community, whereas a 'How to beat...' can help everyone that reads it, and will push the quality of play upwards.

[Justin]

Good stuff.

Would love to have some of it up on the wiki:

http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Hamelin+The+Plagued#Playing%20Against%20Hamelin

[Necromorph]

Great write up, and I agree that we need more threads like this.

As magic sort of mentioned, focusing on catchers only works if you have catchers on the table. Many hamelin crews don't rely on rat swarms and use other thisngs like Canines and night terrors for objectives / cheap units rather than the typical rat swarm.

If this is the case, then focus on nix and stolen, then hamelin himself.

[TimeLapse]

Just some more tips for the guild players

Shrug off,

this skill can get rid of hamelins main mechanic of making you insignificant.

Though shrug off is only on a handful of models making perdita your master with her spell breaker will cover the rest of your crew.

Another thing I thought players should look at if they haven't already is the hawk guys (don't remember who to spell there name) the can hit from so far away without line of sight with cb 7. Now hunting stolen with health of 1 is easy. Let the great childern hunt begin... hmm that sounds wrong. Anways with 1 or 2 of thwse guys in you list hamelin kids have loads to fear.

Ill post more ideas as they come.

-Andrew

[huntroll]

Just some more tips for the guild players

Shrug off,

this skill can get rid of hamelins main mechanic of making you insignificant.

Though shrug off is only on a handful of models making perdita your master with her spell breaker will cover the rest of your crew.

Another thing I thought players should look at if they haven't already is the hawk guys (don't remember who to spell there name) the can hit from so far away without line of sight with cb 7. Now hunting stolen with health of 1 is easy. Let the great childern hunt begin... hmm that sounds wrong. Anways with 1 or 2 of thwse guys in you list hamelin kids have loads to fear.

Ill post more ideas as they come.

-Andrew

The Austringer can also make another friendly model immediately activate after him with a (0) spell, so if you manage to kill the Stolen within 3" of Hamelin, you might be able to activate some heavy hitter to take him down for good. Even better if you activate a whole Family of heavy hitters

[magicpockets]

Austringers are awesome against Hamelin, I'd always say take two and use deliver orders to get 4 hits onto his rat catchers (take down the RC as fast as possible and then kill stuff that was in the bubble of voracious rats before he can reposition to protect them). Ryle is nice to due to the amount of ranged damage he can put out

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Austringers with hamelin work great when you have Lucius and student, this allows you to fast the Austringer and reinforce him up into range to hit a stolen early on. Also you can put him in a safe position where he can pick away.

[magicpockets]

Austringers with hamelin work great when you have Lucius and student, this allows you to fast the Austringer and reinforce him up into range to hit a stolen early on. Also you can put him in a safe position where he can pick away.

Or use Lucious' 3 AP to get more shots off the the Austringers

[Omenbringer]

Throw in a Drill Sergeant Totem for some real fun with Lucius and the Austringers (pretty sweet against anyone really).

[TimeLapse]

Throw in a Drill Sergeant Totem for some real fun with Lucius and the Austringers (pretty sweet against anyone really).

Though when killing harmless stolen wp check is needed, adding the govs proxy may work better since he can add to wp tests making cheating less likely, and hamelin not get cards because of it.

-Andrew

Edited December 23, 2011 by TimeLapse

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

And gov is cheaper. Given hamelin doesn't usually have a lot of morale duels this is a great point. Thus will also help against hamelins insignificant spells. Once you kill hammy and reduce his ca to 4 when he is having to beat wp 8-10 that is huge. Even with ss it almost becomes point less for him to try those spells. His weapon I think will still spam insignificant.

With spell break, advance counterspell, and shrug off guild seems like can deal with hammy pretty well.

[magicpockets]

Be careful with the GovProxy against Hamelin, with so many ways to obey your models he can just make you kill it and then fail the test for your obeyed model to die too.

[EvilGinger]

not quite on topic, but would be fun & rather Malifaux - Hiram & his infernal machine

[TimeLapse]

Be careful with the GovProxy against Hamelin, with so many ways to obey your models he can just make you kill it and then fail the test for your obeyed model to die too.

This is true so position of the proxy is key, since he only needs line of sight make sure he isn't an easy kill place hime behind cover and out of range of charges. Anything to make it that much harder for an obeyed model to kill him.

Defensive stance is also good. Lots of times forgotten by most players as an option for all models defensive stance is an intresting ability.