Colette confusion

[Asphyxxious]

So I got my first game in with Colette in today and I am pretty sure i was playing her crew quite wrong some how. My list was

Colette 7ss cache

-Mechanical dove 2ss

Cassandra 9ss

Coryphee 7ss

Coryphee 7ss

Performer and Mannequin 6ss

I know her crew is supposed to be incredibly mobile and have a crazy amount of soulstones but idk.. It wasn't working that way for me. It could have been that I went into the game shop last night to prepare for a black friday tournament then played in the tournament without sleep and tried my first Colette game right after that. I felt like if i kept trying to boost my soul stones I just never had any actions even with the free reactivate. Cassandra is mobile but ends up going in attacking once or maybe twice and being in a very vulnerable situation. Doesn't seem to have the damage output other 9ss models have. Same situation with the coryphee. When you get the duet out it is cool and all but when it comes down to it you're paying 14ss for a 2/3/4 damage line no matter how mobile and deceptive they are. The performer and mannequin... oh god I don't even know. I couldn't find much of a use for either one. I just had the performer going and grabbing objectives and being somewhere for Colette to switch places with. The only real use i found for the mannequin was Colette would switch places with showgirl A. Colette would switch places with the mannequin. Then due to link the mannequin would pull back making all 3 models safe for 2 AP.

I could tell that in the beginning of the game i was playing somewhat wrong and started playing better.. But I am just not really sure what to do. Am i crazy in thinking the models seems to perform under the ss cost?

Also is kaeris good with Colette. I don't know the exact wording on her flame pillars or when they end but is it possible to disappearing act and drop them on top of the fire and have them take WDs? I have a feeling it is a no but I just wanna check.

So yeah I am pretty much having an issue of i never seem to have enough actions. I can be very mobile.. but when I get there I can't do anything. Am I missing anything? Thanks in advance

[magicpockets]

Just experience, her movement shenanigans take a while to get to grips with, and it's definitely worth checking ut the threads on here for advice. Here's an example for you -

1 Companion the girls

2 link maniquin to collette

3 move cassandra to do some damage and leave her in the open

4 switch collette with Cassandra to bring Cassandra home (leaves mannequin behind)

5 switch collette with mannequin to leave maniquin exposed

6 end of activation manikin pushes back to collette

That's an attack with Cassandra with no counter strike

Her crew is full of stuff like this and is insane when used properly

[Ratty]

I think that is a fairly normal representation of someones first game with Colette. I've seen it a lot of times at the LGS, the crew doesn't seem to have any punch. Then you play a good Colette player and she's scary. Everything moves so fast. The Coryphee Duet can make an attack every time they move so they don't have a great damage arc but can move in and attack more times than most models.

[Ozz]

Dont know the wording on Disappearing act, but if it does not say it must be outside of terrain then yes you can do that.

Cassandra does not always do a huge amount of dmg in mele, but her spell is nice with a stone and 2 blasts, and due to being able to use SS with Colette, she takes a lot to kill.

The Coryphee are low dmg on each hit, but they attack for free (or 3 attacks for one 0 action) and they dont miss often due to they use a stone and hit stuff in the face. You use them to kill 2 maybe 3 models over a few turns whilst staying out of sight so they can not be hurt back or at the end of the game maybe grabbing any objectives. But for me when i have them in my list, i rely on them almost entirely for my dmg output. Cassandra a little but i usually play to cautiously with her.

However, if against somehting with low Cb or low dmg, the Coryphee can be left in combat as long as you know that they will not have anything to hard able to attack them (eg ranged spells without the gun icon) or good mele as they have Df 7 with a positive flip for it.

The performer, i still havent found a use for, but i pay the points for the mannequin, and you were doing exactly what it is there for, getting a model out of trouble and into saftey, the other way to do it also for less actions is to companion it and colette, and have the mannequin bash her so she gets her Df trigger and swaps places, then immediately activates swapping with the mannequin and having a 1 action for something.

As for the stones, i generally in turn one make 2 stones and 2 walks, then after that its a bit hit and miss weather i make many more, but i always try to if i can, only time im happy to get a few aces in my hand is with her.

They just take some time to get used to is all, they dont have a big beat stick like most crews do:)

[Asphyxxious]

LOL the mannequin has companion /megafacepalm. I said I was working on like no sleep and just played a tourny right? haha. Completely missed that, and i can see how that will help a lot. I could see how i could do some cool tricks but i kept trying to leave my models out in the open. Pretty sure I remember saying in the game that i thought it was weird there was no companion in the list. Even the totems don't have companion. I missed the DF trigger too. I just always had my mannequin defensive stance because I saw nothing for it to do. I'm glad I was just playing wrong because I really liked how she worked on paper.

It was just weird for me because I play all of the neverborn masters and I picked up on their tricks right away. So it felt odd to keep reading my models and be confused about what to do. I think I have a lot better idea now. I tried too hard to pitch cards for stones all the time and wasn't playing hit and run enough till turn 3 or so. I left Cassandra in melee range of Sonnia which i found was a bad idea. Wasn't incredibly familiar with Sonnia and my hand was gone very fast. I also tried to maximize how far i could get on turn 1 waaaay too hard. I did something like move Cassandra up twice next to a line in the sand objective and switch places with a coryphee. Switched coryphee interacted then switched places with the other one. Colette gained reactivate got a soulstone and buried Cassandra. Colette reactivated switched with the coryphee.. then I realized that the plan in my head wasn't working how I originally intended. ended up moving up with the other coryphee and unburying Cassandra up with the rest of the models. Somehow in my mind I could have interacted with 2 markers and got all my models to the middle of the board. Pretty sure I should have just moved things up pretty much. I ended up confusing myself and spending an unnecessary stone. With no sleep and after playing the tourney for like 10 hours i shouldn't have tried to do something like that on my first game >.<.

The Kaeris question was because I wasn't sure if the damage would actually happen. I would unbury them in the start closing phase and then the fire goes away in the end closing phase. I just wasn't sure if just being placed there would do damage. Not sure if they had to actually start an activation or an action in the fire to take the damage.

So would you guys change anything about my starting list? I was thinking about taking a second dove but wasn't sure. How many stones do you guys usually end a game with if you start the game with 7? I think i made it up to 9 but I spent all of them because I played incorrectly and got into bad positions.

Can't wait to play a couple more games and hopefully get her tricks down without looking at the cards for so long >.<.

[magicpockets]

Your list is the typical collette 35ss list, and I'd keep the extra ss and summon a dove. And be aware a good opponent will force you to burn ss as quickly as possible - believe it or not that's actually her crews weakness

Another tip, keep doves in range of your duet before it activates. Then if you lose iniative you can still burn a ss if you need to before you get soul dancer off.

[Asphyxxious]

So the only way to really get any companion tricks is off of the mannequin right? Because I wanted to try Kaeris in the list, but don't want to lose access to companion. 14ss for duet and 9ss for Cassandra are huge chunks to try and get an 8ss model in. Just if the performer and mannequin were 3ss each >.< that would be awesome

I caught on to the dove placement luckily. Its pretty nice to have just in case. Speaking of the duet though how fast do you generally dance together? Do you take turn one to try and get some sort of replacement shenanigans in before dancing together or just do it from the start?

[magicpockets]

Everyone I've seen play it dances together turn one or very start of turn two, they're slow and frail on their own

[Q'iq'el]

If you are good at SS management you can take both Performers and simply focus on making Stones. 2 Mannequins are huge and one more Performer is very useful as yet another waypoint for Illusionist.

That relies on Colette having a turn or two without much to do, which only some opponents will allow for.

Alternatively, you can try to get a second Mannequin with Colette's own trigger (which can also be a huge hit for the opponent), but it is an extremely unreliable approach. I may have horrid luck with cards, but I haven't got it off even once yet (it requires you to flip/cheat a tome and then add a Soulstone flip which must add a third tome to the total... and you must win the duel on the top of that).

[Asphyxxious]

Alright ill try dancing them together asap then. Hopefully that works better for me, although my duet got killed in 1 hit anyway in the last game. Good ol' black jokers.

Yeah I didn't have very good luck with that trigger either. Tome will sacrifice them and get you a mannequin and mask will get you one of the stones back right? i figured that since you get a plus flip for your stone flip there was a good chance of getting one of the 2 suits on one of the 2 flips. I repeatedly got double crow for it. I think the fourth try i finally got a tome though.

Why is it so helpful having a second mannequin? Would you want to link both to Colette?

[Kogan Style]

I find having Johann in the list is a great boost as he can hit pretty hard, with the showgirls mobility, you'll always have someone close to get the bonus to cb

[Ozz]

1 to cassandra, 1 to colette, though i have forgotten the trick that is for, only one i can think of is breath fire in mele on it and get the to blasts off into your opponent which they can not stop (bar maybe sonnia or Ramos' counter spell style tricks) Just does 1 to the Mannequin and 3 to everything else if in range

Though i think the trick with them is for something else.

[Marcalla]

Until recently I had trouble seeing the usefulness of the performer as well. Though not so much anymore. When paired with Cassandra's understudy, you can use the performers "siren call" with Cass's increased casting and the ability to use stones. This will pretty much paralyze most anybody including foolish masters that have strayed within the range.

[pixelante]

I hadn't considered the Performer paired with Cassandra, I was thinking more of the Mannequin with Beautiful Clothes so Cassandra can stop a model attacking her and Tricks of the Trade to make healing flips. As for her blade I think its more for when she gets attacked in melee so she can use the Trigger One Fluid Motion to get away if Colette doesn't teleport her with Illusionist or Now You See It. No I think Cassandra's Breath Fire is her primary offensive ability.

Its also tempting to just use the Mechanical Doves as Pigeon Bombs (Warhammer reference.), but this is probably a waste as the Soulstone Powered is pretty powerful as it gives the SS flip a positive.

I also had assumed that you needed to spend an action point to make a strike with Sword Dance, I must try that out.

[Q'iq'el]

I hadn't considered the Performer paired with Cassandra, I was thinking more of the Mannequin with Beautiful Clothes so Cassandra can stop a model attacking her and Tricks of the Trade to make healing flips. As for her blade I think its more for when she gets attacked in melee so she can use the Trigger One Fluid Motion to get away if Colette doesn't teleport her with Illusionist or Now You See It. No I think Cassandra's Breath Fire is her primary offensive ability.

Breath Fire is very situational. It is a spell, you need good cards and perhaps even a Soulstone to pull it off.

You seem to forget about Sword Dance - that's 3 sword attacks for free (considering she has 3 walk actions available to her) and if the trigger goes off, she gets out of melee range without triggering a Disengaging Strike, so that she can continue moving and get another pass at some other model.

Its also tempting to just use the Mechanical Doves as Pigeon Bombs (Warhammer reference.), but this is probably a waste as the Soulstone Powered is pretty powerful as it gives the SS flip a positive.

There's no hard and fast rule here. Doves' detonation is a solid chance to finish off stuff and Showgirls constantly fail to finish off models they attack. A well placed Dove can remove 2-3 targets tethering on the edge.

I also had assumed that you needed to spend an action point to make a strike with Sword Dance, I must try that out.

No, you don't spend an action on that strike. It's what entire fighting technique Cassandra and Coryphée use is based on.

As for the Mannequinds, there are several reasons why a second Mannequin is so good. First of all, forget their own abilities, triggers and spells - they'll almost never get them off.

What Mannequins do is propagate simultaneous activation around the crew. Colette is not the only model that wants to go together with Cassandra or other showgirl - almost all combos the crew has require at least 2 models to go together, and usually one of them is a Mannequin. If you bring 2, your crew can separate without losing access to simultaneous activation bubble.

Linked Mannequins catch up with Colette automatically when she walks or ends her activation, but what if she is forced to use Blinding Flash to defend herself? If the range is big, that Mannequin is not catching up again and the Link will end. Having a second Showgirl with a Mannequin linked means Colette can swap and still have a Mannequin linked to her next turn.

Finally, Mannequin is a good body guard. Combined with some terrain it can block LoS to some of your more precious models.

Healing Mannequins is easier than healing Showgirls too.

Bottomline is the crew, especially Colette, survives and wins through constant swapping of the models. Mannequins and Performers (to a lesser degree) are the enablers here.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Ratty]

Breath Fire is very situational. It is a spell, you need good cards and perhaps even a Soulstone to pull it off.

However it is the most scary thing in her arsenal if your a Kirai player, it brutal and makes her my prime target during the game. If that gets anywhere near Kirai it makes a huge mess.

[Q'iq'el]

However it is the most scary thing in her arsenal if your a Kirai player, it brutal and makes her my prime target during the game. If that gets anywhere near Kirai it makes a huge mess.

That's the very definition of *situational*, isn't it?

[CrazyCarl]

It may be late and I may be understanding this wrong, but say you have a Mannequin, Performer and Colette within 6" of each other. You can companion the Performer and Colette to the Mannequin and activate all 3 at once?

[Asphyxxious]

I believe so. I left my stuff down at the LGS tonight but I am pretty sure the mannequin has companion showgirl so you can do a companion activation with the mannequin and any showgirls within 6" of it.

Thank you guys for all the advice. I will try and use some of these tactics really soon. I could only get one game in today and it was with a new player trying to learn Leveticus, but he only had an hour to play. I figured if we were both trying to learn a crew it would go far past an hour so I just went with Z since I am familiar with her. Although it was temping to take Cassandra and try healing Leveticus >.<

I was also thinking about Johan also but cant he only get his CB bonus if he is by Colette with a typical showgirls list? And for now I am just trying to use more staple models to get used to the tricks they have. When I get another game in with her I will update it here for sure though. Some of this advice has me really want to get a game in. Hopefully tomorrow.

[Q'iq'el]

It may be late and I may be understanding this wrong, but say you have a Mannequin, Performer and Colette within 6" of each other. You can companion the Performer and Colette to the Mannequin and activate all 3 at once?

That's how Companion works.

Essentially Mannequin can Companion any number of models it can Companion (i.e. Showgirls). All those models, including Mannequin, count as Simultaneously Activated... so now you can move them in whatever order you like, even though the Mannequin was the one to originally Companion the group.

[Q'iq'el]

I was also thinking about Johan also but cant he only get his CB bonus if he is by Colette with a typical showgirls list? And for now I am just trying to use more staple models to get used to the tricks they have. When I get another game in with her I will update it here for sure though. Some of this advice has me really want to get a game in. Hopefully tomorrow.

The thing with Showgirls is they don't like strangers. The crew works excellent as long as it's build from Showgirls, but bring outsiders and the troubles start.

I have Jack Daw, Miss Demeanor and I'm going to add a Gunsmith - all three models for 40~45SS games and probably just one at the time (depending on Strategy and the opponent I face). I've heard people make Joss work too, but I feel he's too detached from the rest of the crew (just my taste).

Jack Daw can be transported to some scary places by Colette (using Diappearing Act). He sort of tips the scales in Showgirls favor when they can easily remain out of his Severed Ties aura, and the opponent is stuck there taking all the Duels at disadvantage.

Convict Gunslinger offers one thing Showgirls don't have - an anchor. If you need to defend a location, or simply make it difficult to pass for the opponent, you place him/her there. I suppose Joss does the same job, but I have too little experience with him to be definitive.

Gunsmith is great to finish off all these annoying models with Armor/H2W/S2D and other abilities that seriously hamper Showgirls (who are already so-so at killing stuff to begin with).

I'm not sure what else I'd willingly put in Colette's crew. Obviously Angelica will get her place once she's released, but that's about it.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Asphyxxious]

I have one question real quick before i head down to the LGS to hopefully get a game in. Am I able to have a companion activation.. say with a mannequin Colette and Cassandra, but activate Colette first have her do whatever and give herself reactivate, activate Cassandra, Activate the mannequin but at the beginning of the mannequins activation state another companion activation activating Colette for her reactivate? Obviously staying within the 6" and everything, but if i do it correctly am i able to do that to activate Colette and reactivate her before my opponent can activate? Thanks in advance

[Ozz]

I would probably guess at no for that im afraid, but not 100% sure.

[Asphyxxious]

I hope that's not the case. I'm pretty sure I can. Atleast can't see any reason why I can't. Just wanting to make sure I'm not overlooking something.

[Q'iq'el]

You definitely can't.

Reactivation requires you allow another activations to happen in between Colette's activation (unless she's the last model activating and there's nothing else to go). Simultaneous activation requires models to activate one by one, but it all counts as one big activation, so the models moving after Colette don't fulfill the requirement of another activation happening.

Then I think it has been ruled you cannot re-use Companion to add models to the simultaneously activating pool. You have to declare all the models going together and that's it - each one goes only once.