fritz the cat Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Curiosity Calls is b2b' date= so I don't think that'd come in play. sad panda, there goes my dreams dashed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Note that 3" isn't enough to block LOS to the Crooligan himself at it's exactly 3" and "Models can draw LoS up to 3" across [...] obscuring terrain" (RM, page 15). Should still get soft cover though, and blocking for anyone even slightly further back than the lead crooligan, which is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Should still get soft cover though, and blocking for anyone even slightly further back than the lead crooligan, which is nice. Aye, it just seemed that the OP believed them to be wholly untargetable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) Aye, it just seemed that the OP believed them to be wholly untargetable. Personally, I think they should be too. I've read other things saying the same thing about the "exact" 3 inches too, though, so do not generally argue about it. (Never seen a rules marshall say it though) Arguing the semantics of "up to 3 inches" can get tedious. Logically, I could make the argument that if there is 3 inches of mist BETWEEN the Crooligan and his attacker, then the Crooligan is not WITHIN the 3 inches. So, "up to 3 inches" does not cover it. It particularly seems funny to me considering that if the Obscuring mist started an INCH AWAY from the base and was only TWO inches thick that they WOULD get LoS blocked because the Crooligan would effectively be on the "other side" of obscuring terrain. But anyway... BTW, has a rules marshall ever ruled on it? I did a search and could not find anything as explicit as "A model with 3 inches of obscuring terrain is targetable. When you read the diagram description on page 16, I like the wording that says that Perdita gets LoS to the gremlin because she is "drawing LoS through less than 3 inches of obscuring terrain". Edited November 11, 2011 by Gruesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) You can see a model that has a 3" obscuring aura... Thread here, about Rasputina's ability. http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24856 Edited November 11, 2011 by Ratty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Thank you. Weird that thread did not appear in my searches. Maybe I was using "line of sight" instead of LoS or something. I saw a few people arguing what I was which makes me feel not alone, but I think it was nailed by: Page 6 of the Rules Manual "When measuring, a base is within a distance if any portion of its base is within or exactly at the indicated distance." So in the case of White Out, Rasputina would count as being within 3" for the obscuring and therefore visible within LoS. Not necessarily something I agree with conceptually but in game mechanics terms it seems clear and has been ruled on. (Not going to argue about the reverse direction and how the Crooligan is not in the Aura itself and therefore could not target something outside of the mist since it has the intervening obscuring area, etc... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Actually, the Crooligan IS in the aura, as the spell actually states that the Crolligan who cast it is affected by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I know he is affected by it as the spell states it. That is different than being "within" the 3 inches of the aura itself or ALL auras would affect the casters. To the OP, I still don't have an opinion on Necropunks versus Crooligans as my time with Crooligans is still too short. I like parts of them so far, the Mist in particular with the right terrain seems to be providing great cover for my Nicodem "block" while saving masks that Nic would normally burn on Fog. But I have not had good experiences with their mobility yet. I hope that in a few more games with them, "From the Shadows" and "Curiosity Calls" start giving me better objective tricks, but so far I am either just full of fail or not had the right circumstances to have them work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) I have only used them with Molly so far, and in any strategy/scheme requiring interacts, they have been fantastic ( they actually pulled off steal relic). I want to say I prefer them to necropunks, but I can't be sure yet, and no testing with other masters. As for "within" I believe that term means they are actually affected by the mist. Otherwise it's an obvious and pointless statement to even include. I heard Zee and Bunniegod discussing this point, and I am not sure where it ended up. Edited November 12, 2011 by ravenborne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 strategies aside, they seem to have alot of synergy with seamus (especially in avatar form) mist making lots of cover to try and help mitigate seamus low defense. creepy stacking nicely with aSeamus's ability to give all friendly models terrifying. Boosts them to effectively terrifying 13. Keep em in mist and it dissuades enemies from trying to kill them at range as they'd be defense 7 + cover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) One thing I do not like about Crooligans is that they are special forces. So, short of running my crew with Molly, I can only have 2. I'd LIKE to have 3 so that 1 can move with my block and provide cover while I have 2 deployed forward for fast objective control. The two objective grabbers can help one another with movement and just generally helping one another survive until the objective is seized in certain gametypes and then the 3rd traveling with my main body provides any escape mechanism for any that survived via its mist. With only two, I can have one with main body and only one deployed forward and that feels too squishy. That having been said, I agree with fritz that they might be nice with Seamus. (And Molly, duh) I just tend to have a very Nicodem focused perspective... P.S. If The hanged could ever be errata'ed to be Horrors, I'd immediately love Crooligans and start running Molly as my master. Edited November 12, 2011 by Gruesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 P.S. If The hanged could ever be errata'ed to be Horrors, I'd immediately love Crooligans and start running Molly as my master. if only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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