Mr_Smigs Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Right, after coming across an old Avatar Pandora model, I decided I had to at least build a 25 ss list to play around with it... Neverborn Crew - 25 - Scrap Pandora -- 7 Pool Hooded Rider [8ss]Iggy [6ss]Sorrow [3ss]Sorrow [3ss]Sorrow [3ss] this is the current thought, with the idea of using the Rider to quickly deliver the Sorrows to the enemy while Iggy is my covering fire (other thought was Convict Gunslinger instead of Iggy...) but, having never played Pandora and generally favoring high-speed lists (i note she's a slow model) I'm wondering, form the more experienced players, would the non-Woe models be a waste of time... and NO, I do not want to run the lure chain list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Pandora is actually epically fast, her ability to move four inches on winning a wp duel is awesome, she can lightning around the table. her totem can cast dementia on her to make her absolutely fly ( at least it use to be able to) I think your list is ok, the only problem is lots of insignificant with the sorrows, so some objectives will kill ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermitpermit Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 The problem with the list you have there is that linking the sorrows to the rider costs him 3 wounds that you can't heal back. Just link them to Pandora, have the totem dump Dementia on herself and go go gadget move speed. I have yet to play with Iggy but he seems like a good unit. Rider is solid cause he can put on Night and murderface the guild or anyone with a gun. I prefer Teddy but that is my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Smigs Posted September 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 alas, I don't like the teddy model... the thought was to chain the sorrows, so 2 would take 1 wound each, and the rider only take 1 wound... which totem for Pandora? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I normally run something like this. Neverborn Crew - 25 - Scrap Pandora -- 5 Pool Primordial Magic [2ss] Doppelganger [8ss]Insidious Madness [4ss]Sorrow [3ss]Sorrow [3ss]Stitched Together [5ss] What they say is right Pandora is Horrifically fast, she can chain incites/pacifies, and everytime she wins one she gets a free push. There are quite a few games where I have managed to get Pandora to move about 20" in a turn and still get off 2 or 3 spells.. The real trick with her is to work out a chain that will get you to a target and then get yourself back out of danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermitpermit Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Neverborn Crew - 25 - Scrap Pandora -- 6 Pool Primordial Magic [2ss] Baby Kade [6ss]Candy [8ss]Doppelganger [8ss] My usual Pandora list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Neverborn Crew - 25 - Scrap Pandora -- 7 Pool Lelu [7ss]Lilitu [7ss]Sorrow [3ss]Sorrow [3ss]Sorrow [3ss] Lelu for the punch, Lilithu to Lure the enemy to you one by one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpangelu Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 The key to making pandora fast is make cast the spell ( I believe aforementioned dimentia) on herself, what this does is everytime she wnats to do anything at all she has to pass a wp check. which immediately pushes her 4", and then more then likely the spell cast (incite/pacify) plus w/e spells cast usually have wp as a resist. and her incite pacify continue as long as its successful.. so.. cast incite, pass wp check, then take incite check, if pass do it again (you have now moved 8" btw)...with 1 0 action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 I normally run something like this. Neverborn Crew - 25 - Scrap Pandora -- 5 Pool Primordial Magic [2ss] Doppelganger [8ss]Insidious Madness [4ss]Sorrow [3ss]Sorrow [3ss]Stitched Together [5ss] What they say is right Pandora is Horrifically fast, she can chain incites/pacifies, and everytime she wins one she gets a free push. There are quite a few games where I have managed to get Pandora to move about 20" in a turn and still get off 2 or 3 spells.. The real trick with her is to work out a chain that will get you to a target and then get yourself back out of danger. This list is a great choice, although maybe drop the Stitched for a Poltegeist/Primordial Magic and a full cache of 8ss. Pandora likes soulstones to make use of low crows and to win a poorly flipped incite/pacify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Smigs, read my Pandora Tactica. It will give you everything you need to get yourself started with her and help you figure out a lot of her subtle things (like just how fast she really is). That and check out the Wiki Article on her, it again will give you everything you seemed to have missed and hopefully get you up and running with her. But simply put, there is no point in linking the Sorrows to the Rider (even in a chain) when Pandora can cover many times his distance in a single turn, and inflict catastrophic damage to your opponent. Fading Memory + Incite/Pacify are her key movement tricks. Then you also have baiting your opponet into attacking you for Expose Fear + Fading Memory movement again. All the while Emotional Trauma is slowly cutting down their wounds. The Rider is a great beat stick option for Pandora (something you always want to consider in larger games). But Iggy is iffy at best with her. He brings her very little and has few if any actualy synergies with in her. In short, you have much better options for the SS you would spend. You simply don't need covering fire, Pandora IS the covering fire and IS the heart and soul of her own crew. So is a non-woe worth it? Absolutely, you will want at least 1 model that isn't Wp duel reliant in your list, especially in larger games (at 35ss you generally want 2 Hybrids if you can swing it). But again, see the Wiki page on her @Pocket: You rarely ever need 8ss with Pandora. 5 or 6 is usually more then enough and a totem with her isn't that great as it is with say Lilith or the Dreamer. That is unless you want to do the hugely cheesy Dementia trick with her. But I know this is a point were we differ on our uses of her All you need is 1 high crow and a solid SS flip and you can pin down your opponent's Master for the rest of the game if not kill them outright that turn. So 8ss is a over-kill about 90% of the time. Even with 5 or 6 I end almost every game with some to spare and while it's always nice to have "encase" SS... I'd rather have another Sorrow or a Stitched Ratty's list is one of the more solid 25ss list you can build with Pandora. It's biggest flaw is that it relies exclusively on Wp duels which makes things like the Ortega's, a bit of a pain in the butt. But at 25ss it's hard to really fit in those melee models or the hybrid models. Though this is were Kade really shines, at 25ss he is a fantastic model and as long as Pandora is keeping the focus on her, he can easily slip in and knife a model or two. He just has the small issue of fighting with her for high Crows. @96P: That is probably one of my favorite 25ss list with Pandora. The twins bring so much to her and at 25ss, they can be extremly hard to put down for good. Lelu is basically the biggest face eating 7ss out there right now and with Lilitu's Lure you can easily feed him a model a turn. It's a very well balanced list. Edited September 26, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 @96P: That is probably one of my favorite 25ss list with Pandora. The twins bring so much to her and at 25ss, they can be extremly hard to put down for good. Lelu is basically the biggest face eating 7ss out there right now and with Lilitu's Lure you can easily feed him a model a turn. It's a very well balanced list. Not to mention the possibility of luring an enemy within 12" of Pandora to give her a hook for her pacify train I usually cast dementia with the sorrows on Pandora, as they can use her (1) spells while linked to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Not to mention the possibility of luring an enemy within 12" of Pandora to give her a hook for her pacify train I usually cast dementia with the sorrows on Pandora, as they can use her (1) spells while linked to her. Eh... it's still a very cheesy tactic in my opinion (the Dementia abuse) and one I really wish they would close off. You absolutely, 100% don't need this to win and Pandora would be better off without that option (ie make it say "enemy model"). But I suppose that is neither here nor there and not the purpose of this thread. Last thing we need is another massive arguement where people do everything but calm down and discuss it rationally. Yup! Luring models back into the 12" Pacify/Incite range is another big use of it to and plays even more to the idea that stoping and studying the field for a minute or two can pay off big time. Then besides all that and the bag of chips Lilitu has, the Healing from her is a perfect way to top off those pesky AE hits or few strikes that slip past Expose Fears. Or almost nastier, Paralyze a falling back model and they are not effectively out of it for 2 turns. If they Fall Back first, the - flip on their Wp duel vs the spell makes this nearly a sure thing. Nothing like a one two punch to take a model basically out of the game and put it completely at your mercy Edited September 26, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Eh... it's still a very cheesy tactic in my opinion (the Dementia abuse) and one I really wish they would close off. You absolutely, 100% don't need this to win and Pandora would be better off without that option (ie make it say "enemy model"). But I suppose that is neither here nor there and not the purpose of this thread. Last thing we need is another massive arguement where people do everything but calm down and discuss it rationally. I seldom use it myself, as you need a 7 to win the dementia duel and its way to card expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 @Pocket: You rarely ever need 8ss with Pandora. 5 or 6 is usually more then enough and a totem with her isn't that great as it is with say Lilith or the Dreamer. That is unless you want to do the hugely cheesy Dementia trick with her. But I know this is a point were we differ on our uses of her I almost always go with a full cache as they can be so powerful (to be honest it's usually 7ss by the time things work out but hum ho) and for 2ss I think her totems are really useful. Poltergeist is hard to take down and the slow in b2b is really useful (esp using spirit to walk through walls/buildings etc to get there) and the extra card from the Primordial Magic can be really useful. Also, they're a cheap activation model for stalling if you need to. And don't tar me with the Dementa brush - I point it out to people on here but very, very rarely use it. I'm much happier with multiple instances of emotional trauma across my sorrows and JackDaw in the mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijynx Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Neverborn Crew - 35 - Scrap Pandora -- 5 Pool + Pandora, Avatars of Insanity & Candy [2ss] Doppelganger [8ss]Insidious Madness [4ss]Insidious Madness [4ss]Lilitu [7ss]Stitched Together [5ss]Stitched Together [5ss] I've lost once with this crew in a pretty competitive local group of players, to the point where I don't even play it in friendly games any more. Before the avatars I just used a Primordial Magic in the place of the Avatar of Insanity. There are a lot of shennanigans you can pull with this list, and outside of Lilitu, target priority becomes a huge issue to your opponent since there are many equal threats on the table. Sometimes I switch the Doppelganger + Insidious Madness out for a Teddy + Sorrow if I'm feeling frisky or my opponent is playing a faster crew. Five soulstones seems low for Pandora, which I used to agree with, but this list has always worked wonders for me! Edited September 26, 2011 by hijynx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draznar Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I'm confused, why would you ever want to cast Dementia on your own crew? Or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Smigs Posted September 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) I'm confused, why would you ever want to cast Dementia on your own crew? Or am I missing something? because it makes Pandora have to win a WP duel (7+) to even act, but by winning the duel, she gets a free push... hadn't thought about that... I admit, I was putting Iggy in because I'll be getting him for the Kaeris crew anyways... so, focusing on sorrows, what kinda lists do you guys run with them? it seems everyone abandons them for bigger things, but I like the models (and have 3 already painted...) Edited September 27, 2011 by Mr_Smigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 because it makes Pandora have to win a WP duel (7+) to even act, but by winning the duel, she gets a free push... Wow that is a new one to me. Very cheesy. Have to tell my Pandora player about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 You can also do some nasty tricks with the Doppleganger. Have the Doppleganger Copy link on first turn and then link to Pandora. Since Link specifies when it ends the fact that the Doppleganger no longer has the ability to link doesn't cause the effect generated earlier to fall off. Now you have a Woe attached to Pandora with a good chunk of wounds to toss any dmg that might get through to Pandora off onto. + the ganger has the ability to keep healing herself so you have a great Pandora immortality shield going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 You can also do some nasty tricks with the Doppleganger. Have the Doppleganger Copy link on first turn and then link to Pandora. Since Link specifies when it ends the fact that the Doppleganger no longer has the ability to link doesn't cause the effect generated earlier to fall off. Now you have a Woe attached to Pandora with a good chunk of wounds to toss any dmg that might get through to Pandora off onto. + the ganger has the ability to keep healing herself so you have a great Pandora immortality shield going on. Dude, complete waste of a Doppleganger and mimic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koschai Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 All you need is 1 high crow and a solid SS flip and you can pin down your opponent's Master for the rest of the game if not kill them outright that turn. What combination are you refering to here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 ^^ Pandora's casting trigger Mental Anguish - it's the second best trigger in the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Dude, complete waste of a Doppleganger and mimic. Complete waste of advice because I feel it works very well. It's not like you can't still do other things once you are linked. It is one facet of what the ganger can do. Also wait, what?! Mental anguish is the second best? what in your opinion is the best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 whatever coppelius's auto paralyze is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Also wait, what?! Mental anguish is the second best? what in your opinion is the best? Dolomyte has a good shout, but for me it's Dumb Luck - Kin can do awesome damage lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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