Zoraida and Ophelia

[redben]

The rulebook says that if a rule on a stat card breaks a rule in the rulebook then the stat card takes precedence. Therefore Zoraida can hire Ophelia into her crew because "Enthrall" takes precedence over the regular hiring rules. It then says that if rules on two stat cards contradict each other then the wording determines which takes precendece, "may" is trumped by "can" which is trumped by "cannot".

Zoraida "may" hire living models with a WP of 4 or less from any faction, Ophelia "may" only join crews in a Brawl that contain Gremlins, Kin, Pigs and Vermin. Which "may" takes precendece? Or does only one model in the crew have to have one of those characteristics for Ophelia to be eligible to join it in a Brawl?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

It's the may that comes first let's say Ophelia was a master she could not be the first master hired in a brawl, zoradia would have to be first. But as a henchman you are always hired second to a master so zoradia's may takes precedence.

By hiring ophelia you might have further restrictions, I would have to look at the card.

[redben]

So if Zoraida is the first model nominated to be in a crew all her "may" supercede any other models "may" in the crew?

[Mr_Smigs]

what's the exact wording (don't have my book handy)

'cause the way you've phrased it in the OP, it sounds like you don't have to conflict,

that Zoraida may hire, as long as she brings other gremlins, pigs, etc...

unless Ophelia says "only" those models then we have a problem...

[redben]

Which was the final thing I asked. Does Ophelia's rule mean only one model in the crew has to have one of those characteristics for her to be eligible?

The wording is she "may only join crews which contain Gremlins, Kin, Pigs and Vermin"

[Dracomax]

Which was the final thing I asked. Does Ophelia's rule mean only one model in the crew has to have one of those characteristics for her to be eligible?

The wording is she "may only join crews which contain Gremlins, Kin, Pigs and Vermin"

outside of another opinion, I'd assume that "only join ...contain" means that it must contain >=1 of that model.

Whereas "join...contain only" would mean that she can't join a crew with any other models.

[Mr_Smigs]

outside of another opinion, I'd assume that "only join ...contain" means that it must contain >=1 of that model.

Whereas "join...contain only" would mean that she can't join a crew with any other models.

agreed.

so, basically, she has to bring a friend along.

[redben]

The only issue with that is you'd expect the wording to be "or Vermin", not "and Vermin" unless it means at least one of each.

[Mr_Smigs]

The only issue with that is you'd expect the wording to be "or Vermin", not "and Vermin" unless it means at least one of each.

we had this discussion a while ago when Rising Powers came out...

If you look at Hamelin's requirements and read it as the "logic statement" AND, there's no models he can hire...

when they list "and" they really mean "and/or"

[Omenbringer]

Basically Ophelia can only be hired as a Henchman in a brawl (since Henchman can not be Masters in brawls) and then the options are (because of the Hiring restrictions of the main three models, Ophelia/ Zoraida/ Some'r);

1) Zoraida running Gremlins (no Slop Hauler because of WP and Zoraida's Enthrall rule), Pigs (no stuffed Piglets or Pigapult because of WP and Zoraida's Entrall rule) and Rats (no skeeters because they are Totems assigned to Some'r) netting an additional 10 SS since she isn't hiring a second Master.

2) Zoraida and Some'r with Gremlins (again no Slop Hauler), Pigs (once again no Stuffed Piglets or Pigapult), and Vermin.

Additionally all of these models are going to cost Zoraida an additonal SS per for hiring out of faction, since it is her crew.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Omenbringer

[Ratty]

I'm absolutely sure I had this discussion when I was putting together the crew creator and it should be read as.

"crews Ophelia joins in a Brawl can only contain Gremlins, Kin, Pigs and Vermin."

IE if any model is hired that doesn't have one of those characteristics she refuses to turn up.

[redben]

Zoraida herself doesn't have one of these characteristics so will Ophelia join her in a Brawl?

[Omenbringer]

Ophelia can not run a crew in a Brawl since she is only a Henchman, so no Zoraida will not join her (though as I pointed out earlier Ophelia may still function as Zoraida's Henchman in a Brawl netting an additional 10 SS for not taking a second Master).

Edited September 27, 2011 by Omenbringer

[Gollum528]

I just tried this on the crew creator. It would not let me hire Ophelia in a brawl.

[Omenbringer]

Did you hire only Gremlins, Pigs and Vermin with her?

[Gollum528]

It was zoraida and 5 or 6 hog whisperers. No ophelia or any of her kin as an option.

[Omenbringer]

Just confirmed this as well, so Ratty Ophelia can only pair with Somer in a Brawl and then only as a Henchman?

Edited September 27, 2011 by Omenbringer

[redben]

Ophelia can not run a crew in a Brawl since she is only a Henchman, so no Zoraida will not join her (though as I pointed out earlier Ophelia may still function as Zoraida's Henchman in a Brawl netting an additional 10 SS for not taking a second Master).

I think you're missing the point. It doesn't say Ophelia can only hire models with those characteristics. It says she may only join crews with those characteristics. It hinges on whether every model in the crew has to have one of those characteristics (which is how Ratty and myself read it). If they do then Zoraida can't hire her for a Brawl because Z doesn't have one of them.

[Fading Memory]

Ophelia may only join Zoraida in a Scraps game. Ophelia may not join Zoraida in a Brawl.

Ophelia may only be hired as a Henchman by Some'r in Brawls.

Ophelia's restrictions only matter in terms of Brawls. She can only be hired in a Brawl crew if the crew consists entirely of gremlins, pigs, and vermin. Zoraida is neither of these so Ophelia may not join a Zoraida crew in a Brawl. It's as simple as that.