Matamane Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 35ss Nicodem, the Undertaker (master, 5ss cache)* Vulture (totem, 2ss) Vulture (totem, 2ss) Nurse (minion, 5ss) Rafkin, the Embalmer (minion, 7ss, 1 body part) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Turn 1 Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Vulture Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Vulture Nurse uses Attendant Rafkin, the Embalmer uses Preserve Bodies Rafkin, the Embalmer walks*** Rafkin, the Embalmer strikes with Flask of Formaldehyde, cheats to severe, striking all Canine Remains with blast damage Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture uses Eyes and Ears Vulture walks Vulture uses Eyes and Ears Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 7 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Rogue Necromancy, draw 4 cards**** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 11 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Flesh Construct, draw 2 cards (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 13 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Decay through Vulture to hit as many enemy models as possible Rogue Necromancy walks** Flesh Construct walks** Turn 2 Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Flesh Construct Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Nicodem, the Undertaker Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Rafkin, the Embalmer Rafkin, the Embalmer uses Preserve Bodies Rafkin, the Embalmer does something Flesh Construct and Rogue Necromancy fight to the death, taking it out on the lone Mindless Zombie who is playing referee Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 19 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Decay** Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 25 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Rogue Necromancy, draw 4 cards**** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 29 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker manifests into Nicodem, Avatar of Decay Nicodem, Avatar of Decay uses Mass Grave***** Nicodem, Avatar of Decay casts something**** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Rogue Necromancy uses Acid Breath to eliminate all Mindless Zombies (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 33 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 34 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 35 body part counters) Mindless Zombies A & B fight Mindless Zombies C & D to the death (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 37 body part counters) Rafkin the Embalmer casts Hasty Disposal summoning a lot of models Everything else activates *Avatar option taken ** Activation ends ***Discards Body Part ****Casting Expert *****Assume Moderate ******Three Headed Instead of sending the Vultures up, you can keep them there, and increase Rafkin, the Embalmer's body part count to well over 40. If you opt for an additional Canine Remains, it works just as well. You can easily delay the strategy until you feel more comfortable given the models, and even if you choose to initiate quickly, you still easily approach the middle of the board once the strategy is completed. All comments are much appreciated. Credit to Mach 5 for the Flask of Formaldehyde idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Unfortunately can't cast decay through eyes and ears, but can cast rigor mortus. Also vultures will get nuke unless you waste activations with dogs. If you throw in Mortimer so you can move Nico up that would help a lot. Again not really a filth list you are still unbelievable slow. Filth lists are lists that will win no matter the strategy or scheme 9/10 times. This about a 6/10 and requires a lot of stacked cards to pull off anyone who relies on reanimator to go off everything probably doesn't play Nico often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Unfortunately can't cast decay through eyes and ears, but can cast rigor mortus. Yes you can. This is often misread. Highlighted the part below people tend to miss Eye and Ears - Until the End Activation Phase, when casting a spell, this model's connected Master may draw LoS and range from this model. These spells receive -3 Ca. Spells with the icon may not be cast through a model in melee using Eyes and Ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Unfortunately can't cast decay through eyes and ears, but can cast rigor mortus. Also vultures will get nuke unless you waste activations with dogs. If you throw in Mortimer so you can move Nico up that would help a lot. Again not really a filth list you are still unbelievable slow. Filth lists are lists that will win no matter the strategy or scheme 9/10 times. This about a 6/10 and requires a lot of stacked cards to pull off anyone who relies on reanimator to go off everything probably doesn't play Nico often why can't you cast decay through eyes and ears? edit: nilus ninjad me its a funny list i'd love to test this, its so funny to see the face of your opponent when you do crazy things like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I will give you the rules are tighter here. But you are still sitting in your deployment zone for two turns. Any number of fast attack lists can get in there an ruin your day. You are also doing a lot of casting that require high values, you are getting cards for summoning but I have a feeling you will run through your hand and stone supply getting all this done. Worth testing out to see how it does in the field though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 1 tiny problem though, matamane: Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 19 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Decay** Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 25 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Rogue Necromancy, draw 4 cards**** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 29 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker manifests into Nicodem, Avatar of Decay Nicodem, Avatar of Decay uses Mass Grave***** Nicodem, Avatar of Decay casts something**** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Rogue Necromancy uses Acid Breath to eliminate all Mindless Zombies (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 33 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 34 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 35 body part counters) Mindless Zombies A & B fight Mindless Zombies C & D to the death (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 37 body part counters) there is something i don't understand in here. Rogue Necromancy uses Acid Breath to eliminate all Mindless Zombies (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 33 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 34 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 35 body part counters) Mindless Zombies A & B fight Mindless Zombies C & D to the death (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 37 body part counters) why should rafkin gets body parts when you kill MZ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 never mind my previous post, nicodem his avatar form, dropping corps counters are discarded and become MZ, thus giving rafkin body parts, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 this would make a list of, avatar of decay rouge necromancy, nurse, 18-20 mindless zombies and,, what else? how about using the hasty disposal untill turn 3, don't reactivate rafkin, so he lives, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matamane Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Nicodem, Avatar of Decay Nurse Rogue Necromancy 20 Mindless Zombies 5 Guild Autopsy Mindless Zombies will grow into Punk Zombies on subsequent turns. Rafkin serves no purpose by this point, so turn him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Nicodem, Avatar of Decay Nurse Rogue Necromancy 20 Mindless Zombies 5 Guild Autopsy Mindless Zombies will grow into Punk Zombies on subsequent turns. Rafkin serves no purpose by this point, so turn him. how do you get 20 MZ and 5 autopsy? you have 37-40 body parts got a point about the MZ growing in Punks forgot about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matamane Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 You still have 4-6 Mindless Zombies from the setup. 40 Body parts = 10 Mindless Zombies and 4 Guild Autopsy If you use the Vultures as a raw material, you can yield around 4-5 body parts for each, so say 3 more Mindless Zombies and 1 more Guild Autopsy. so 4-6 +13 |= 20, and 5 Guild Autopsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3tsuya Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 1 tiny problem though, matamane: there is something i don't understand in here. why should rafkin gets body parts when you kill MZ? never mind my previous post, nicodem his avatar form, dropping corps counters are discarded and become MZ, thus giving rafkin body parts, A question here, because I'm really interested in messing around with this list. Why could killing Mindless Zombies give Rafkin body part counters if Nicodem's avatar has "Mark of Decay" which makes the Mindless Zombies within 10" of him lose the ability that makes them count as corpse counters, and Restless Dead only raises "Non-Mindless Zombie" corpse counters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsation Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 19 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Decay** Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 25 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Rogue Necromancy, draw 4 cards**** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 29 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker manifests into Nicodem, Avatar of Decay Nicodem, Avatar of Decay uses Mass Grave***** Nicodem, Avatar of Decay casts something**** If you arise on first activation, then second activation arise, then do your avatar form after second arise, you can't mass grave since you've used your 0 action, aye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3tsuya Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 If you arise on first activation, then second activation arise, then do your avatar form after second arise, you can't mass grave since you've used your 0 action, aye? That's right. As soon as he manifests with a (2) action he'd be done as he's already used his 0 action and Casting Expert for that turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matamane Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Um, no... Only General AP are used, so the actions are fair game. Read the Replace rules, this should give you the explanation you need. Also, as per your fist question, the counter is discarded when it drops, which is why Rafkin, the Embalmer gets body part counters. Edited September 21, 2011 by Matamane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I quite like this idea... maybe waiting till turn 3 reactivating with nurse then have rafkin bomb it up the board to a good position then throw zombies at everyone and everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I find this list of actions very confusing and when I run through the numbers I run out of actions(especially casting actions and (0) actions in round 2. Can you break this down a little better. Especially for models you are activating twice with reactivate and how you believe manifesting works because I think you are doing it wrong. If a model uses a (0) action he does not get to take another one after he manifests. Also if he uses his (+1) Casting expert, when he manifests he only gets one more cast from Caster Master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3tsuya Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Um, no... Only General AP are used, so the actions are fair game. Read the Replace rules, this should give you the explanation you need. Also, as per your fist question, the counter is discarded when it drops, which is why Rafkin, the Embalmer gets body part counters. With how it's worded, you might actually be right. It says under Action Basics Each model receives two (2) general action points at the start of it's activation And then goes on to say A model may only use one (0) action per activation. The replace rules reference the avatar as a new model, so they'd get their own (0) action as well. That's actually really nice. As for the corpse counter thing, I still don't see how the corpse counters are discarded when they drop from the Mindless Zombies because when Mindless Zombies die, they aren't replaced by another Mindless Zombie because of how Nicodem's Restless Dead is worded After a non-mindless zombie corpse counter is placed on the table within 6" of this model... If anyone else sees what I might be missing here, please chime in. This is a really fun idea and I'd like to get it all nice and table legal before I or anyone else buys into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akujie Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 pretty sweet. I like the idea, slow enough that people have a chance (though tough for some) to do something, but if it goes off your opponent is boned! Plus this is 1st vision of it, I'm sure a tweek or two and you will have something to rival the other filth out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think that this list suffers from the same thing that is a systemic issue with the Ressers as a whole. That being, we don't have very many direct synergies. Your combo again requires too much: A) Time, you need to spend a # of turns to even get the combo working with a good percentage of the models in your crew. Actions, you are spending a number of your actions getting your combo going for at least two turns. Those actions you are spending are not directly contributing to victory conditions. c) Resources, you are being required to use a number of high cards from your hand to get this to work instead of saving them for direct use against your opponent. I think your list looks fun, but is not competitive because it is not a simple elegant and deadly machine. The FILTH list works because it is deadly from turn one and requires minimal investment in direct actions, time, and resources to make it work. Most of the things that contribute to its success are passive abilities that are always active on the models in question. For something similar we'd need something like a model who causes enemy models to lose all immunities to WP duels caused by friendly models and their talents in it's area of effect , or something else in the same vein. On that note, did anyone else notice the extreme lack of models in the Resser list that have any extra AP talents or Abilities on them? You can't count the masters because every master in the game gets something like it, but we have 2 models if I'm not mistaken. Sebastion has Melee Expert, and the Shikome has Nimble, and she can gain fast,... That's it. Sure we have a few models with Flurry but compared to just about any other extra AP ability that is decidedly sub-par. Anyone else hope that some of our models gain these abilities in time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matamane Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 As for the corpse counter thing, I still don't see how the corpse counters are discarded when they drop from the Mindless Zombies because when Mindless Zombies die, they aren't replaced by another Mindless Zombie because of how Nicodem's Restless Dead is worded After a non-mindless zombie corpse counter is placed on the table within 6" of this model... If anyone else sees what I might be missing here, please chime in. This is a really fun idea and I'd like to get it all nice and table legal before I or anyone else buys into it. the corpse counter itself is not a mindless zombie, it is immediately discarded, and becomes a mindless zombie. Corpse Counters are Corpse Counters are Corpse Counters, there is no difference of where they are from, the line is redundant, and was likely a vestige from early design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matamane Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Meh, a slight misstep on the 0 action, no big deal... take off 1-2 Mindless Zombies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 After a non-mindless zombie corpse counter is placed on the table within 6" of this model... If anyone else sees what I might be missing here, please chime in. This is a really fun idea and I'd like to get it all nice and table legal before I or anyone else buys into it. MZ dies, drops a corpse counter, avatar of decay summons another MZ, corpse counter discarded, rafkin gains another body part the non mindless zombie corpse counter stands for the ability of the walking dead, but since avatar of decay ignores that rule, i don't now why they say it in that rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Okay so we tightened up the theory a bit. Anyone actually play this yet to see what happens? Kinda wondering how it works. I would love to see a more competitive Res list that was not Kirai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demkoenig Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I might try to get this done tomorrow or Saturday and I'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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