Matamane

bump?

If I use an (all) action to manifest, does the avatar get any actions?

1) If I use both speed and stimulant on Kirai, at the end of turn, will sacrificing Lost Love nullify both sacrifices, or just one? 2) If I have Molly copy Faces of Death, but never casts it, can her totem use it? 3) If Lost Love makes Kirai a Spirit at the Start Close Step for the remainder of the game, does she count as having been a spirit for that turn? In other words, is the Start Close Step count as being part of the turn?

Why use him over molly?

Why Von Schill?

How do you summon with just 2 dogs? What's the step by step process?

250$ not including shipping, which we'll settle outside of public chat

What changed in the meta?

Meh, a slight misstep on the 0 action, no big deal... take off 1-2 Mindless Zombies

the corpse counter itself is not a mindless zombie, it is immediately discarded, and becomes a mindless zombie. Corpse Counters are Corpse Counters are Corpse Counters, there is no difference of where they are from, the line is redundant, and was likely a vestige from early design.

Um, no... Only General AP are used, so the actions are fair game. Read the Replace rules, this should give you the explanation you need. Also, as per your fist question, the counter is discarded when it drops, which is why Rafkin, the Embalmer gets body part counters.

You still have 4-6 Mindless Zombies from the setup. 40 Body parts = 10 Mindless Zombies and 4 Guild Autopsy If you use the Vultures as a raw material, you can yield around 4-5 body parts for each, so say 3 more Mindless Zombies and 1 more Guild Autopsy. so 4-6 +13 |= 20, and 5 Guild Autopsy

Molly's place is by Seamus' side. 35ss Seamus, the Mad Hatter (master, 2ss cache)* Molly Squippidge (henchman, 9ss) Rogue Necromancy (minion, 10ss) Madame Sybelle (minion, 6ss) Dead Doxy (minion, 5ss) Dead Doxy (minion, 5ss) *Avatar Option taken Lots of Terrifying is fun

Nicodem, Avatar of Decay Nurse Rogue Necromancy 20 Mindless Zombies 5 Guild Autopsy Mindless Zombies will grow into Punk Zombies on subsequent turns. Rafkin serves no purpose by this point, so turn him.

Yes, post after the ruling was cleared up, we have cleared up that issue. I feel good about my rule sharking, and I got what I wanted.

35ss Nicodem, the Undertaker (master, 5ss cache)* Vulture (totem, 2ss) Vulture (totem, 2ss) Nurse (minion, 5ss) Rafkin, the Embalmer (minion, 7ss, 1 body part) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Canine Remains (minion, 2ss) Turn 1 Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Vulture Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Vulture Nurse uses Attendant Rafkin, the Embalmer uses Preserve Bodies Rafkin, the Embalmer walks*** Rafkin, the Embalmer strikes with Flask of Formaldehyde, cheats to severe, striking all Canine Remains with blast damage Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Canine Remains dies** Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture walks Vulture uses Eyes and Ears Vulture walks Vulture uses Eyes and Ears Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 7 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Rogue Necromancy, draw 4 cards**** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 11 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Flesh Construct, draw 2 cards (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 13 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Decay through Vulture to hit as many enemy models as possible Rogue Necromancy walks** Flesh Construct walks** Turn 2 Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Flesh Construct Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Nicodem, the Undertaker Nurse casts Massive Dose (speed) on Rafkin, the Embalmer Rafkin, the Embalmer uses Preserve Bodies Rafkin, the Embalmer does something Flesh Construct and Rogue Necromancy fight to the death, taking it out on the lone Mindless Zombie who is playing referee Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 19 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Decay** Nicodem, the Undertaker uses Arise (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 25 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker casts Reanimator to summon Rogue Necromancy, draw 4 cards**** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 29 body part counters) Nicodem, the Undertaker manifests into Nicodem, Avatar of Decay Nicodem, Avatar of Decay uses Mass Grave***** Nicodem, Avatar of Decay casts something**** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Mindless Zombie walks** Rogue Necromancy uses Acid Breath to eliminate all Mindless Zombies (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 33 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 34 body part counters) Rogue Necromancy strikes Mindless Zombie****** (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 35 body part counters) Mindless Zombies A & B fight Mindless Zombies C & D to the death (Rafkin, the Embalmer has 37 body part counters) Rafkin the Embalmer casts Hasty Disposal summoning a lot of models Everything else activates *Avatar option taken ** Activation ends ***Discards Body Part ****Casting Expert *****Assume Moderate ******Three Headed Instead of sending the Vultures up, you can keep them there, and increase Rafkin, the Embalmer's body part count to well over 40. If you opt for an additional Canine Remains, it works just as well. You can easily delay the strategy until you feel more comfortable given the models, and even if you choose to initiate quickly, you still easily approach the middle of the board once the strategy is completed. All comments are much appreciated. Credit to Mach 5 for the Flask of Formaldehyde idea

Given the ruling clarification, I return to my lair and will recreate the list keeping your criticisms in mind as I remake the list.

And I have no problem with this new ruling. I never said it should or should not work, only that the logic behind the ruling was flawed. Thank you for reexamining the ruling, and making a concise decision that leaves no ambiguity

I understand the intent, I disagree with the logic behind it. Given his statement, it does not work. Under the terms given I want it to be overturned. Your statement makes practical sense, but the logic of the ruling is what I disagree with. Given the ruling, it is the This model does not generate Corpse or Scrap Counters in Lost Focus that prevents it from working. As this sentence is in the text of Empty Vessel, by the ruling given, Empty Vessel never works

Granted, but the reason he gave would imply the trigger would never work

That's the point... That logic behind the previous ruling is demonstrably false. As a result I want the ruling changed.

Essentially, this is on the issue with Desolate and Empty Vessel. A previous thread yielded the result that Empty Vessel will not work on creatures that do not produce corpse counters. However this does not make sense, as Empty Vessel itself prevents the creature from producing corpse counters. By the given logic, the trigger never works. This is the thread in question. http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20890 This was the RM's argument. Based off of the wording for the Desolation engine. Quote: Lost Focus: When this model is killed or sacrificed, Summon 2 Steampunk Abominations to it before it is removed from play. This model does not generate Corpse or Scrap Counters. The second sentence in Lost Focus it a separate sentence of that ability say that this model does not generate Corpse Counters. Add in the statement from Mindless Zombies: Quote: Walking Dead: Counts as a Corpse Counter, but cannot be picked up. Therefore since the Desolation Engine is unable to generate Corpse Counters, it would be incapable of generating Mindless Zombies. This seems self contradictory, so I want to see if this ruling can be overturned, as it dangerously makes assumptions that prevent the trigger from working in any circumstance.

That ruling makes no sense, and I want to hear it from the highest authority. As the trigger itself denies corpse counters, it makes no sense. I deny the ruling until I hear it from the top.

Just so you know I requested the desolation ruling to be upturned by Skitch on cause of logic. I'll keep you posted

My whole thing about the grow list comparison is that grow lists yield a certain tier of results. I yield over 20 additional models of results and 11 additional cards over 2 turns. Considering I can keep moving forward, and upgrade the Mindless Zombies into Punk Zombies, it gets even better.