Gaining Ground Mercenaries

[magicpockets]

In Gaining Ground under limited faction it says Mercs cost +1SS in your pool. I could understand this for modes with the Merc characteristic but ive been told that it applies to ANY out of faction hire irrespective of model rules (i.e. Hamelin can hire from any faction AT NO EXTRA COST)

Is this right? If so, why when a model can be hired at no extra cost am I all of a sudden being penalised in tournament play? Normal game a canine remains costs 2ss - in a tourney I have to spend 3ss to have one in my pool? WTF? Why is my crew paying more for legal models than other crews?

Ths may be a case of cards overrule book and I can hire without penalty (or a mistake) but as it stands I've bought the most model intens crew to find out I'm handicapped from the start. That can't be right?

[nilus]

In Gaining Ground under limited faction it says Mercs cost +1SS in your pool. I could understand this for modes with the Merc characteristic but ive been told that it applies to ANY out of faction hire irrespective of model rules (i.e. Hamelin can hire from any faction AT NO EXTRA COST)

Rules only say Mercenary models. So that would be models with the Merc characteristic being hired outside the faction.

[magicpockets]

Rules only say Mercenary models. So that would be models with the Merc characteristic being hired outside the faction.

Thats what I said and feel would make sense, but I've been told by two TOs that it's wrong (it would stop people hiring a merc into their pool via one master and then using them with another master whilst dodging the +1ss in the pool - that should be the intention?)

But I think until a RM or the like comes long that it'll be +1ss for any out. Faction hire

[nilus]

Honestly I can't say for sure. I never run limited pool tournaments so it doesn't come up with my player base.

[edonil]

Models hired from outside the player's chosen Faction cost an additional Soulstone over their printed Soulstone cost to hire.

Rules Manual, page 71.

[magicpockets]

Rules Manual, page 71.

This model may hire at no additional ss cost = Hamelins card. Cards trump rule books

[Dolomyte]

I agree with that. card > book

[edonil]

Yep. I put it up to show you where the logic and ruling is coming from...wait. I think I just figured out what you're asking about. Say, if you're bringing Hamelin and the Viktorias, even though Hamelin is able to hire models without extra cost, your TOs are charging you the extra cost in your master list because you also brought the Viks?

...hmmm...yeah, I'd like to see a Ruling on this too...

[Clousseau]

Basically what edonil says. For fixed faction tournaments the pool list always includes the +1 as any master can be used each round.

If you take Hamelin then you pay the normal points, but the Viks would pay the +1.

So, yes, the consequence is a more limited pool.

That's how I interpret it anyway.

[Ratty]

Here I come to save the day.. wait that was a Mouse not a Rat...anyhow.

Mercenaries refers to models with the mercenary characteristic. Otherwise it would get rediculous fairly quick. Eg Arcanists paying 6ss for every Silurid he want to take even though they can only be taken by Marcus, and lets not start on Outcasts who already have it hard before you start charging them 3ss for a Cannine Remain which they can just use with Leveticus.

So Rezers hiring Jack Daw would pay 10ss even if they had Kirai as he's got the mercenary characteristic. But Arcanists hiring Shikome would not pay +1ss as it doesn't.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Ratty

[edonil]

So...not arguing, just trying to check another situation. Say I'm bringing Hoffman, who's allowed to bring Arcanist constructs. So, I'm going to bring an Arachnid Swarm. Normally, an Arachnid Swarm is 9 points. Since I'm using Hoffman, they cost 10 points. In a Limited Faction Pool, is the Arachnid Swarm 9 points, or 10 points?

[Ratty]

So...not arguing, just trying to check another situation. Say I'm bringing Hoffman, who's allowed to bring Arcanist constructs. So, I'm going to bring an Arachnid Swarm. Normally, an Arachnid Swarm is 9 points. Since I'm using Hoffman, they cost 10 points. In a Limited Faction Pool, is the Arachnid Swarm 9 points, or 10 points?

As they don't have Mercenary 9ss.

If you look carefully your not hiring models, you are making a list of models that add up to the SS size of the game + 20. So hiring restrictions, out of faction cost etc don't come into it. The only modifier is if model is both a mercenary and out of faction in which case is costs +1ss

Edited October 21, 2011 by Ratty

[edonil]

Alright, thanks, Ratty! Looks like TOs have been thinking the right way, and coming to the wrong conclusion, then. Glad to know that before I start running my own tournaments here.

[Darg]

So just to clarify further for a newbie, you pay +1ss for mercenaries for your model pool but if you take a master who ignores the additional cost in a game you do not pay the premium in that game's list?

[Ratty]

So just to clarify further for a newbie, you pay +1ss for mercenaries for your model pool but if you take a master who ignores the additional cost in a game you do not pay the premium in that game's list?

You make a list of models before the tournament starts. You don't worry about hiring restrictions and out of faction costs.

... you then hire from that list as normal each game of the tournament paying the normal cost you would pay to hire it into a game with whichever Master you choose.

[magicpockets]

You Sir are a legend, thank you for clearing that up

[sephiroa]

ooh well, since in limited factions you never have to say wich master you take, so it sounds only right that out of faction models indeed cost +1ss and when you take your crew, they don't.

[sharpobjects]

So this ruling/explanation is just for a specific run tournament? Limited faction tournament?

In tournaments where you have to pick a faction this would not apply?

I always thought that anytime you hire out of faction you pay an additional SS unless the models card says you pay no extra cost in hiring out of faction.

[nilus]

So this ruling/explanation is just for a specific run tournament? Limited faction tournament?

These rules only apply for a Limited faction pool gaining ground tournament.

IE tournaments where you are only allowed to bring x number of stones worth of models to draft you crew each round.

If you are playing Single Faction these rules don't apply

[Cunning]

Also this isn't for hiring. Just for filling out your pool. Hiring rules apply as normal.

[Ratty]

Right in Gaining Ground there is a type of Tournament called Limited Faction Pool

Limited Faction Pool (Requires Single Faction) At the start of the Tournament, each player commits to a specific Faction (noted by the TO) and provides a list of models that are worth 20 SS more than the Soulstone Size of the Encounter. Masters are not required in the Crew, but Totems and Henchmen are required if they are to be hired over the course of the tournament. At the start of each round, a player uses his or her specified model list to hire the Crew for the Encounter. Mercenaries always cost one additional Soulstone, even if some masters can hire them at a cheaper rate.

We are only talking about this kind of Tournament...

So you make a list of models that add up to the total, as your not hiring it's just the base cost of the model you use when making this list. models that are both Mercenaries and Out of Faction cost +1 ss.

When you play each game you Hire as you would normally, for the Master in question, your just limited to this list.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Ratty

[Cunning]

I take it that should be Mercenaries outside of your faction cost one additional soulstone? Pretty harsh on the Viks otherwise.

[sharpobjects]

Thanks for the clarification Ratty.