Let's talk Malifaux

[dgraz]

The Avatars, we're told, are not more powerful versions of the Masters, just different versions.

Who says that? Never have I heard that from anyone at Wyrd. People have complained that that is what they would be, but looking at the book and how they are played they are certainly more powerful than their originals.

[Mentat_Canis]

Look at the Avatars they are more powerful there is a reason it takes 2ss and takes AP away from your master. They are not broken I kill you now autowin first guy to get them out but they are betters. It would also kinda be lame if they were just like epics from warmachine.

[DeleteAccount]

I'm gonna switch gears for a moment.

The Avatars, we're told, are not more powerful versions of the Masters, just different versions. If this is the case, why the swap mechanic, and not say, just field them as Epic versions. I'm afraid I don't see what the minigame has to offer players.

Well, at least as a Kirai player and an in process Seamus player, it gives me a very real late game option of changing my support master/close range harrasment master into a beatstick master that likes to be stuck in. The important part is that yes, it's a lateral shift, but a lateral shift that changes the ballgame midmatch and forces your opponent to adapt to it on the fly.

[Jonas Albrecht]

It would also kinda be lame if they were just like epics from warmachine.

I disagree, but's simply a matter of preference.

dgraz, I'll dig up the quotes.

[Buhallin]

The Avatars, we're told, are not more powerful versions of the Masters, just different versions. If this is the case, why the swap mechanic, and not say, just field them as Epic versions. I'm afraid I don't see what the minigame has to offer players.

The variety is good. The enforced decision to evolve or not is good, and can certainly change up the course of the game. I like that some masters become paragons of themselves, while others become something very different. It's a shift that you have to watch for and deal with, in both your opponent and your own master, and it adds some depth to the game. The manifest requirements can produce interesting changes in how a master plays, as they may push for (or try to avoid avoid) the trigger conditions.

<shrug> If you don't like the idea, then you're not going to like it. But I'm not sure what you mean by it not offering anything to the players.

[Halflingspy]

On the topic of Avatars, I just got my book 3 stuff and watched a game between AMarcus and ADreamer while I did rulings (trying to eventually be a henchmen, gotta know my stuff). It was interesting, the 2ss need to 'evolve' is very balancing, and the manifestation requirements add to it as well. There are some Masters that definitely have an easier time getting to Avatar state, and then there are some Masters that, when you change at the right time, its going to be revolutionary. Seamus, for one, I see as being entirely a pain in the rear and my worst nightmare. If he's in Melee and then he changes, I know I'll have my guys running for the hills, at least one, every time. Its insane at how high he can get his terrifying.

Take the Dreamer and Marcus though - both of their Avatar states I've heard described as... interesting. Sidegrades, not all out 'i just got really really dangerous'. Turn 4 in the game, The Dreamer got his avatar out, used it to drop a hanging tree next to the tiger, get an insanely high terrifying, and used the Lord Chompy Onslaughtish-trigger to get Marcus and the Snake in combat. It was used well at that moment. Meanwhile, Marcus just missed getting the requirements to evolve before getting eaten.

From what I know, the Avatars look really really nifty, but, they are untested so far for the most part. I want to see more of them in combat, and as I got ASonnia, her growth really is curious because she loses what I'm used to (flame blast madness!) and instead gets other kinds of bizarre pain output (melee attack, burning tokens everywhere!). I'm sure that, in a month or two, we'll start seeing some pretty in depth analysis of the avatars as a whole on the forums here. I definitely do have to say though, I'm excited at the new nuance in the game.

[Akujie]

I am still new to the game, so weigh this how you want, but one "issue" i have with the game is "proxing." While I understand the need to sell the metal, and in 95% of the cases, the model is awesometastic, there are always some models a player won't like. As i understand it there is no set rule on proxing, but each tourney handles in its own way. some say striat no on any, some say you can proxy any wyrd model for another as long as it is similair, and some say (show me metal and proxy away)...anywho, I like very much doing conversions on models, and am pleased when i can table a model with some tweaks to set them apart. I know hey sell hats and weapons to change out, but it still limits the conversion pretty severly.

Aa far as topics already brought up. I agree you need more then one master of a faction to up your street cred...er competitive ability, and kinda feel 3 is about the safe zone, though, they each could be described as a "force multiplier" to your overall chances of winning.

Like the topic!

[dgraz]

The official Gaining Ground tournament document forbids proxies in official tournaments but allows the TO discretion for local tourneys. Conversions are allowed in official tourneys as long at they don't use more than 33% non-wyrd parts and it even stipulates that a completely original sculpt may be used.

Edited August 26, 2011 by dgraz