Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Not factions, not fluff, just the mechanics of the game. A lot of recent posts indicate that this would be beneficial. This is a thread for those who just want to rant about a mechanic they feel is flawed, or praise something they feel is brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucket_boy101 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I really like the mechanic where you draw cards after discarding the ones you don't want to keep in your hand. It has let me dump a fwe black jokers in my time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktao Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I really like the mechanic where you draw cards after discarding the ones you don't want to keep in your hand. It has let me dump a fwe black jokers in my time . Lol I keep Black Jokers in my hand so I can't draw them anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Flawed mechanics=/=balance issues with models in my book so I am having a hard time thinking of mechanics issues. I think if players followed the rules and spirit of the game it is hard finding mechanic issues. Examples would be keeping your crew selection a secret till both parties are ready to show their crews; following the tournament guidelines and picking schemes within the guidelines; setting terrain up so that it does not benefit one player more than another. Most of the issues I hear about are more players not playing within the spirit of the game or the balance issues some models have when combined with other models.(Alp bomb would be an example.) Overall I think the game is well designed and the issues that do pop up do tend to get delt with. This is of course just my opinion but for a game two years old it is designed quite well. My hope is that most of the models remain competitive and Malifaux doesn't turn into Listmachine. Edited August 22, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The Alp bomb can be sorted by making Alps Rare 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Flawed mechanics=/=balance issues with models in my book so I am having a hard time thinking of mechanics issues. No one's talking about balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The Alp bomb can be sorted by making Alps Rare 3 This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The Alp bomb can be sorted by making Alps Rare 3 Whoa hey now lets not go crazy, elegantly simple solutions to game balance issues have to be thoroughly tested for a long time by dedicated teams of playtesters before making it into the game as obvious errata. It's not like Wyrd have any kind of speed of light discussion board or "web-site" where necessary changes can be quickly disseminated to the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I dislike most of the strategies and a good deal of the schemes. there are a good deal that are very simplistic to succeed at, and some that are very hard. (1) drain power as a mechanic is broken because of its interaction with the schemes grudge and an eye for an eye. Eye for an eye you can just wipe out your opponents force and then sacrifice down to your master to complete it, should you have too many models left standing, and grudge you can sacrifice the chosen model when its low on wounds or if it is no longer needed around to deny your opponent his VP. It also interacts wonkily with slaughter. Sabotage , Kidnap, Reflections of December, Reclaim malifaux are really really easy. Lay these souls to rest, Subjugate, Machine Spirit, My little friend (requires you buying a totem, the others do not), That ones a keeper, Do I have to do everything myself, Pig food, and voracious rats are hard as hell to accomplish. The others fall somewhere in between. Escape and Survive is a better version of slaughter, no need to have slaughter, its stupid. Models that are killed by an action taken by an enemy model should count as a kill for that enemy. IE Poison and Stitched Together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Every army has a turn one treasure hunt army that can get the token either into, or nearly into their deployment zone. Can we change treasure hunt that you cant pick up the token until the 3rd turn or something, make it more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Every army has a turn one treasure hunt army that can get the token either into, or nearly into their deployment zone. Can we change treasure hunt that you cant pick up the token until the 3rd turn or something, make it more interesting. I figured that's why the rules for stealing it are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I figured that's why the rules for stealing it are there. The stealing rule is fine, but in the case of lets say perdita, when the counter can be in their deployment zone on the first action of the first turn, its annoying to have to go and get it and carry it back. I think that would be a bit better by having a bit of a stall built in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 when the counter can be in their deployment zone on the first action of the first turn... Walk me through that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Not being able to leave out the Black Joker =P. For me it's really hard to find a real flaw within the systematic make up of the game. Maybe Terrifying is a little under powered in the sense that all it is there for it to make your opponent burn cards, at least that's what it seems. Falling back too seems under powered with the auto rally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Walk me through that. Requires a bit of luck control hand wise Perdita, Momma Loco, Totem, another family member (not nino) you win initiative, Totem, Perdita, Family Member, Abuela activate in that order. 1. Family member is at edge of DZ 2. gets obeyed to charge 8 or 7 inches forward by totem (needs a 10 of any suit, can SS) 3. Perdita goes, either draws a new hand (looking for a high mask, and another mask) or if she has a mask, obeys family member up next to the marker. then discards hand looking for the second mask, if she does not already have. 4. Family member activates, picks up treasure, walks four inches towards DZ. 5. Abuela Activates, hopefully has mask to obey model to walk 4 inches closer to DZ. You can throw hamelin in for S&G to obey the family member on the second activation (needs an 8, any suit) to move him to the edge of deployment zone. Regardless, he is anywhere from 4 to 8 inches away from it with the marker first turn first activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Things to praise; any mechanic that helps you get a better hand and initiative. Almost every game I have played against an equally skilled opponent went down to whoever had a better hand and initiative. Not being able to leave out the Black Joker =P. For me it's really hard to find a real flaw within the systematic make up of the game. Maybe Terrifying is a little under powered in the sense that all it is there for it to make your opponent burn cards, at least that's what it seems. Falling back too seems under powered with the auto rally. My experiences have been the complete opposite, Terrifying and Morale Duels usually spell death to the poor fools that fail it. In fact in my play group we have tactics revolving solely around making crews fail morale duels. In my opinion any model that has a way to paralyze or make someone run away too easily (and yes this is subjective) is unbalanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Requires a bit of luck control hand wise Its worth noting this wont work with the Shared version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Its worth noting this wont work with the Shared version. why not? I must be missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 why not? I must be missing something. Picking up the treasure in the shared version is a (2) action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) oh, its only a 1 action in my rules manual. I guess I have rules manual version 1. I guess I need to buy rules manual version 2, which hopefully will fix that misprint and change secretly note to note, because they mean the exact same thing. along with the other errors and corrections. Edit - so in that case, he is four inches closer to the center. If abuela gets off that third obey he is still only 8 inches away from my deployment zone on the first activation of the first turn, hamelin pending. Edited August 22, 2011 by Dolomyte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 oh, its only a 1 action in my rules manual. I guess I have rules manual version 1. That's the non-shared version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 So I guess this is a good time as any to discuss my loathing of Critical Strike and its sister trigger Brutal, as well as its challenged cousin, Flay. Straight to damage bonuses circumvent a lot of this game's rules. Might not be such a bad idea, were not for the ease at which these triggers are gained. One ram usually lets me default to my moderate damage track, two lets me bypass it. It's THE mechanic I would like to see overhauled. Also, any Df lower than 4 might as well be 0. More on this later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat_Canis Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The only system I don't like is the current Falling back mechanic. It is such a devistating mechanic and I understand it should be harsh but when 60% of the models ignore it, it almost makes it so that everyone takes list that either exploit terrifying, or ignore it. If it say didn't give you the negative twist that whole turn like on defensive duals who knows. As for the Critical strike it really is priced into those models and if they didn't have it would be terrible. No problems with that here. Df 4 might as well be 0 i really do agree same with willpower lower then 4. I love so much about the system though I can tolerate some other things I don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 As for the Critical strike it really is priced into those models and if they didn't have it would be terrible. Go on. And it's not Df 4, it's Df 3 and under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat_Canis Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Go on. And it's not Df 4, it's Df 3 and under. Ya the 4 was a typo by forgetting to say under. As for the critical strike thing. I will go to brutal first which is only like one model that it is built in for and that is Joss if I remember correctly. Everything else is required at least 1 tome so will only be +1 damage. Flay is always another Mask and is only auto on a Nekima List. Now back to Critical strike if you look at the Ortega's they are all ranged and there low output is 2 I think across the board so to critical strike they have to give up any other triggers and they are a straight damage crew. They have no real tricks other then raw damage. Same with the Hoff, he doesn't have the speed to get there himself as much so he has to attack through other models and the critical strike is just showing what masters are supposed to be able to do. If guild doesn't have the damage output they are worse then they are at the moment, they don't have movement they don't have any terrifying, they are almost all living. They aren't all that survivable, they are high damage average cost. So I don't mind that as I said before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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