Outcast Avatar First Impressions (Slight Spoiler).

[Necromorph]

Wanted to start this thread as a means for all the Outcast players to discuss the avatars and their tactics/strengths/weaknesses, etc. I realize few people likely have the book, but I plan on this being an ongoing thing. So without further delay, my first Impressions of the Outcast Avatars:

I'll start off by saying that many of the Avatars have a focus...whether it is an aspect they were already good at as a master that they chose to amplify, or a different direction altogether from their master form. Avatars also usually keep at least one of their former Masters' abilities.

Som'er and Peaches, Avatars of Indulgence

Focus-Synergy with Gremlins and Pigs/Strong Melee.

IMO- He gives the gremlins that which they need the most...Wp bonuses. He has several ways to boost gremlins Wp. On top of this, he adds a resilient melee heavy hitter to the crew, has synergy with pigs/stampede manipulation, and has a trigger to summon piglets with the successful cast of a spell, so he can help the pigapult out a bit as well. He keeps Sooey! from his Master form.

Viktorias, Avatars of Slaughter

Focus- Umm....Melee...lots of Melee.

IMO Without going into too much detail so as not to spoil it for those who want to be surprised, when the Viks hit the table, it pretty much turns into a giant pinball game of death. They bounce around from target to target doing very high dg. They can also switch places with other friendly units in melee and...well... 8:rams:masks paired...I'll let you think about that for a minute. Oh...and (Spoiler)...did I mention paired and (+2) Melee Master...ouch. They keep Whirlwind from their Master form.

Leveticus, Avatar of Entropy

Focus-Card Draw Mechanics, Rider Synergy.

IMO- A bit of a multi-faceted avatar here, but he's still pretty nice. He loses his dependancy on waifs, and uses the riders (Dead, Hooded, Mech., Pale) as his waifs. Each rider in play gives him a buff of some sort. He loses his current card draw mechanics, and replaces them with abilities that allow for tons of hand manipulation and healing via discards. His melee attack is the exact same, but he doesn't have that crow built in and needs a specific rider in play to give it to him...and yes, his Cb is still 5. His one remaining damage dealing spell is Necrotic Unmaking, so as you can see, aside from the chance to do 12 dg with his cane, he is much less damage focused.

Oh...and he can summon any of the riders back, awesome. Honestly though, bit underwhelmed by him currently, but I'll have to wait and see when I use him. The rider synergy is cool, but you will prolly need to start with at least two if you plan on using the avatar, and ofc, he can't nuke anything in the game with spells, but I guess his slightly increased ability in Melee will get past that if you can land the hit.

Hamelin, Avatar of Contagion

Focus- Blight Counters

IMO- If Hamelin the Plagued played like a boulder rolling down hill gaining momentum, then his avatar is that boulder with a booster rocket strapped to it. He focuses on giving out blight counters to everything...even his own models, and then mass killing everything that the rats don't take care of. I like that he can give other units (canines, tots, Pale Rider mwahahaha) blight counters which they can then dish out to enemies. I would say that once Hamelin gets his avatar, the opponent has maybe a turn to kill him before they start to get stomped hard. He keeps his pipes and their trigger.

Some downsides though are that while he makes even more stuff insig, he doesn't have bully...though he does get an aura that makes anything with a BC get a -flip to hit him in melee. He also cannot come back off of stolen...basically making him a the equivalent of a resser master (low df, high wd) but without any survival abilities....he's really really squishy. I feel like he gets better at the things he was already good at, but gets worse at the things he was already bad at, making it easier to exploit him. Slaughter will still be hell for him, but recon, claim jump, etc will be super easy. Guild (all of guild now...not just sonnia and perdita thanks to some new units) will be even better against him, and terror crews like the dreamer will be even better against him, but crews without access to strong ranged attacks will be demolished. This is another Avatar where I think I'll have to try him out, but I'm currently not totally sold.

Manifest Requirements

Hamelin

1-Kill an enemy with a model controlled by his Pipes.

2-Make 3 enemies Insig with Understand the Soulless.

Leveticus

1-Kill or Sacrifice Levi two times.

2-Summon two SPA's with Necrotic Unmaking.

Som'er

1-Use Take a Swig three times on three different wounded gremlins.

2-Inflict 4dg with Pull My Finger.

Viktorias

1-One Vik must kill an enemy while under the affect of SoB:Fury cast by the other Vik.

2-Both Viks use their Whirlwind trigger on enemies.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Necromorph

[DeleteAccount]

Sounds smexy. I know I'm more of a filthy intruder here, but mind doing a small tour through all the other subforums to get us all hyped about our avatars?

[DireTrollJake]

Creating Piglets...if this is an easy task, I am sold. Also, does he have the pig trait? (Can he be Stuck in the Ass, or to fly?) If he can reactivate...oh sweet baby Jesus on peaches.

Only bad thing about Viks is you go from having 2 models with a combined 6 actions down to combined 4, and you can't yoyo them. BUT, you won't miss ANYTHING. They didn't really need a boost to killing anything, but it will be fun to do it harder

[Buck Dog]

I do have my doubts about some of the Outcast Avatars. I thought that the Avatars were introduced to bring more variety to a crew or change a masters focus, but with the Viks and Levi it forces you to go down a certain route with regards to crew selection.

The Viks are very melee focused masters and their Avatar form lends itself to going even more melee heavy.

With regards to Levi, while I think that his artwork is great, it seems that taking his Avatar railroads you into taking the Riders. On top of that, running the Outcasts as your main faction is an expensive business as there is very little overlap between crews and to run Levi’s Avatar effectively, you need to get 3 / 4 more expensive models.

Its not all doom and gloom from me though, I absolutley adore Peaches and the artwork for Hamelins avatar is fantastic and has given me the final nudge I needed to pick up his crew.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Buck Dog
MASSIVE FONT !

[Necromorph]

Som'er does indeed have both the pig and gremlin characteristic. He summons pigs by using a tome to cast (1) Swamp Gas, his upgraded version of (1) Pull My Finger.

I might just do that, and go around to the other sub forums, but as I only play ressers and Outcasts, it would mostly just be summary's of the Avatars, but I guess I could look into doing that tonight or tomorrow...just to get people hyped, lol.

@ Buck

Magno and I had a chance to chat with bowen about some of the avatars and he cleared up a lot of our doubts about them, but he did agree that many of the masters force you to play a certain way or pick specific crews...I guess another part of balancing them out.

After rereading the entries of Hamelin and Levi, yeah, I have a couple issues, though I still like them...I don't think any of the Avatars will be "bad" per se. Yes, you are forced to take at least a couple riders (actually you can't take all 4 and get his avatar in a 35ss game because they add up to exactly 35ss and (spoiler) you need to spend 2 stones b4 the game starts to even have the option to make your avatar, so you would have to take 3, and then summon the 4th when you make the avatar).

To clarify a bit...Hamelin's avatar will ruin your day if you let him. I wasn't exagerating when I said you have about 1 turn to drop him before your crew goes bye bye. The flip side to this is, as I said, Hamelin has no survivability now unless you're a melee crew with no access to paired weapons. The sheer amount of dg he can put out when the blight counters start flowing is astronomical, and he has a mass bleeding disease 10" pulse, and a mass obey resisted by a wp 14 duel for all enemies with blight counters. My reference to guild was that A) They have more models with shrug off and spell breaker now, and his vulnerability to shooting will see him drop like a bag of rocks if he doesn't hide out after he manifests. He's definitely cool, but he got better at killing and worse at everything else except strategies that are won by having more models than the opponent (recon, claim jump, etc etc). *Disclaimer* You will need to buy more packs rats....lots and lots of rats.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Necromorph

[DireTrollJake]

HOLY CRAP! Friggin Pig Stickin and Healin Galore on Peaches!

[Darguth]

There is an Avatar Somer topic in Outcasts section. If you could spoil some details on him and the other new gremlins I think many would appreciate it

[Dumb Luck]

First off, I like how Somer AND Peaches are described as the Avatars of Indulgence. He seems solve alot of the Gremlins problems (Pigapult ammo, rubbish Wp). The summoning spell needing tomes is nice, since nothing else in a Bayou force touches them. You could run a decent Somer list by the loooks of it sans any Skeeters with Somer/Peaches.

Best news is Hamelin losing Bully. Gawd, I'm gonna make the Piper squeel like a little piggy!

[Stern]

Best news is Hamelin losing Bully. Gawd, I'm gonna make the Piper squeel like a little piggy!

I could hear your excitement from here you screamed so loud

[Hookers]

Creating Piglets...if this is an easy task, I am sold. Also, does he have the pig trait? (Can he be Stuck in the Ass, or to fly?) If he can reactivate...oh sweet baby Jesus on peaches.

It used to be brokenly easy, whenever he got hit he would summon a pig. Now he has to cast one of his other spells with a crow. Still easier than most summoning. He also has an amazing melee trigger to make him a beatstick, and yes he can fly and reactivate.

[edonil]

Anyone else want to get Hamelin's Avatar model and put a small white lab rat on his shoulder? I mean, he's the Pied Piper set on world domination... who better to have as an advisor than Brain?

[magicpockets]

Anyone else want to get Hamelin's Avatar model and put a small white lab rat on his shoulder? I mean, he's the Pied Piper set on world domination... who better to have as an advisor than Brain?

And thanks Necro for the write up, much appreciated mate.

[Necromorph]

Added Manifest Requirements, enjoy.

[DireTrollJake]

So, when manifesting, do you pull existing wounds to the Avatar or reset at 0? Also, do they get to activate, or are the considered the same model? I concern is the Viktorias. They have to get into the thick of it to manifest, leaving them open for retaliation as an avatar. At I guess you don't have to manifest right then and could back off, but still...

...also, I assume both viktorias have to be alive to manifest?

[Uncle]

Anyone else want to get Hamelin's Avatar model and put a small white lab rat on his shoulder? I mean, he's the Pied Piper set on world domination... who better to have as an advisor than Brain?

Dangerous Beans? But then Hamelin would just be that stupid-looking kid.

[emissary]

...also, I assume both viktorias have to be alive to manifest?

I'm curious about this too.

So, when manifesting, do you pull existing wounds to the Avatar or reset at 0?

The existing wounds carry forward into the avatar. It's part of the replace rules.

Also, do they get to activate, or are the considered the same model?

When they manifest, they're considered the same model so the activation continues and AP spent on the master are considered used on the avatar as well. Again, it's part of the replace rules

[Necromorph]

Both Viks do indeed have to be present on the table to manifest the Avatar...So bring your ronin.

[DireTrollJake]

Outcasts Crew - 40 - Scrap

Viktoria

--

6 Cache

Student of Conflict [3ss]

Von Schill

[9ss]

• Freikorps Librarian
  [7ss]
  
  
• Ronin
  [5ss]
  
  
• Ronin
  [5ss]
  
  
• Ronin
  [5ss]
  
  

Like this? lol

[Necromorph]

Yeah something like that, but you also have to pay 2ss to even attempt to manifest her avatar...so your cache would be 4. Seems like it'll get kinda boring thought, because realistically, anyone who hears you're going to try and Manifest is just going to send everything they have against 1 vik, so you need those ronin...maybe 1 ronin would suffice if you were decent with positioning and knowing when to rush in.

[Buck Dog]

This has always been my main concern with the Viks (and in a similar way, Levi) - rather than bringing alternate play styles and strategic options, it seems that the Avatars are actually forcing these crews to pick from a small selection of minions and reducing the variety.

[Necromorph]

Yeah I gotta agree with you a bit there buck. Not all the avatars force you into that position, but many do. Hell, some of the models that force you to minimize your options don't even have anything to do with avatars :whistle:.

[Buck Dog]

Hell, some of the models that force you to minimize your options don't even have anything to do with avatars :whistle:.

Who on earth are you are referring too

Another thing - I do wonder how the 2 ss for an avatar will effect the Viks too ?

Levi, Hamelin and Som'er don't tend to rely on soulstone support much, so they won't have a huge deal to worry about, but the Viks absolutely eat through the stones. With zero cache and 2ss for an avatar, the Viks will have to go light on stones, which tends to be risky, or will have a small crew.

[Necromorph]

Well, you basically just gotta make sure you have at least (hell, where avatars are concerned) 6ss with them, especially if you want to run von schill. This means that you're gonna have 27ss worth of models, and Von Schill and the Libby are over half of that, leaving you with 11 ss to hire out. Well, you're gonna want a ronin in case they do manage to burn a vik down, so now you're at 6ss left....so what do you do with that? You could take another ronin, a Ten Thunders Brother, your effigy, Johan, any of the other 'Korps models.....

So yeah, you get the idea, it's going to reeeeally limit what they can take in a crew, because they will NEED those extra ss bad, and Mercs aren't the cheapest faction out there when it comes to hiring models.

Since they will be focused on that much more when the threat of their avatar is there, I'd rather take less crew than less stones, but that's just me.

[Buck Dog]

..........which is where things get interesting. The Viks will rely on other minions being in combat to move, and with such a small crew this could be difficult.

I do need to get a few more games under my belt before I pass judgement, but there are so many crews that can throw up sacrificial units to make the Viks automatically charge, that it seems that the initial placement of the avatar is vital. I think Gremlins or Kirai is going to be a difficult match up, spending a lot of time being baited by meaningless units.

[Rathnard]

With the way the AViks work, I suspect a static style crew (thinking specifically of the Librarian) isn't going to be the way to go. I imagine the best way to take advantage of AViks would be to take advantage of cheaper models like Ronin, Freikorpsmen and 10-Thunders Ninjas. They'd move up to engage targets and the AViks swap into melee as needed.

Of course she'll definitely want her soulstones too, and having additional cheap minions should help with that.