Black Joker :( Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 So first off, I am new to Hamelin. I play the Vicks and got them down. So the group of guys I play with regularly wants to get ready to play in some 35 ss tourneys, and since I already play outcasts, I got to scrap together a Hamelin list since a lot of tournaments would see a player or 2 with this guy, everyone wants to be ready for it. Now I see a few lists that use Canine Remains, but I didn't have the models, and was unsure of the basic strategy. Long story short, I played v. Guild and got killed by range... I ran the following: Hamelin the Plagued Nix, the Bull Terrier Rat-Catcher x2 Stolen x3 Obedient Wretch Rats x3 1 Soul Stone The Guild player (using 2 different lists) had Convict Gunslinger, Ryle, and (in one list 2, another he only had 1)Austringer the annoying guy who throws birds 18 inches and ignores LoS... So I went with the general strategy of: Action 1: Move rats 5 inches Action 2: Move catcher 8 inches, 0 action, kill all rats, making new swarm Action 3: Move new Rats 5 inches Action 4: Move a Stolen with that rat swarm Action 5: Hamelin moves 5 inches, sacs that Stolen (making a rat), and makes a new Stolen Action 6: Move catcher #2 8, kill rats, get new swarm Action 7: Move Nix 10 inches, 0 Action, move rats 3 inches toward enemy Now at this point, no one on his side is insignificant, his Ryle strolls up using Socially Repressed, then moves, then shoots a catcher, or an Austringer or 2 toss a bird 18 and hits catcher... Thanks to the armor, he probably only takes 1-2 damage, but all the triggers with Ryle, or focused fire from those things kills catcher or leaves hime with 1 maybe 2 hp... Action 8: Send rats in to attack whatever I was aiming for Action 9 & 10: Move Stolen up Action 11: Draw a card with Wretch, move 4 up My question is, am I doing anything glaringly wrong here? I don't get how people are spreading insignificant so quickly... Little help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyQubert Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well Main thing I would are starting with too many stolen, I usualy take either the obident wretch or one stolen and 5 rats, this allows you to have 2 rat packs mutch earlier (and remember a rat is cheaper than a stolen) Other startigic points - - Start with the rats more that 2" away from each other, so they will activate indipendently (giving you more activations earily on) try not to move the rat catchers untill he has shot his ranged attacks (letting you heal the catchers after they have been damaged) - I've found that you generaly want to out activate the guild when possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGreen Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 One of the great tricks to do with Hamelin if you have the models is, take a terror tot and turn it into a Mature Nephilim really fast. Step 1: Use Obedience sacrificing a Stolen to make the terror tot charge a rat. You will also get a rat from the Stolen dying. Step 2: Activate the Terror Tot use Grow on the Terror Tot and kill the rat again. Step 3: Next turn rinse and repeat and you will have a Mature Nephilim This Mature Nephilim will have only cost you a net of 5ss and 2 ap from Hamelin who is fast, 3ss for the Tot and 1 ss net less on turning the Stolen into rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Joker :( Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 One of the great tricks to do with Hamelin if you have the models is, take a terror tot and turn it into a Mature Nephilim really fast. Step 1: Use Obedience sacrificing a Stolen to make the terror tot charge a rat. You will also get a rat from the Stolen dying. Step 2: Activate the Terror Tot use Grow on the Terror Tot and kill the rat again. Step 3: Next turn rinse and repeat and you will have a Mature Nephilim This Mature Nephilim will have only cost you a net of 5ss and 2 ap from Hamelin who is fast, 3ss for the Tot and 1 ss net less on turning the Stolen into rats. In this strategy, would you also run CR, or just rats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGreen Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 This is the list I have been running at 35ss and so far it has never lost. Hamelin the Plagued Obedient Wretch 2ss Canine Remains 2ss Canine Remains 2ss Nix, 7ss Rat Catcher 5ss Rat Catcher 5ss Terror Tot 3ss The Stolen 3ss The Stolen 3ss 3ss Left to play with or use in game. Another thing to make sure of is when you kill your stolen to make rats put the rats near the rat catchers. They need the two rats near them for the +2 armor. One last side note for now... this is a really jerk list and most people will not have fun playing against it. So its good for competitive play but not necessarily for casual play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmike Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 @ziggy I thought it was 4 inches for rats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naravus Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 BigGreen...I hate that list! I'll play Tina against it and lets see whats up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 One of the great tricks to do with Hamelin if you have the models is, take a terror tot and turn it into a Mature Nephilim really fast. Step 1: Use Obedience sacrificing a Stolen to make the terror tot charge a rat. You will also get a rat from the Stolen dying. Step 2: Activate the Terror Tot use Grow on the Terror Tot and kill the rat again. Step 3: Next turn rinse and repeat and you will have a Mature Nephilim This Mature Nephilim will have only cost you a net of 5ss and 2 ap from Hamelin who is fast, 3ss for the Tot and 1 ss net less on turning the Stolen into rats. This doesn't work. You can't get a blood counter after using obedience as you're not allowed to take a (0) action. Plus you're wasting a (1) action to use obedience, and a ss by sacrificing a stolen to get a rat. Also, there's no need for a second Rat Catcher - you'd be better keeping the 5ss in your pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaqir Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Can you describe your opponent's list a bit more? Who was his master etc etc. In my mind you might have had to risk running a few guys as bait to lure things a bit out of position. I also can't wait for Night Terrors to help stop range to some degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Joker :( Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Can you describe your opponent's list a bit more? Who was his master etc etc. In my mind you might have had to risk running a few guys as bait to lure things a bit out of position. I also can't wait for Night Terrors to help stop range to some degree. List 1 was Lucias with Ryle, 2 austringers, 2 guild guard, his totem, and drill sgt. I don't remember what else, anyway he would throw 4 birds, use Lucias and totem to buff them and make them throw more... Every turn he could throw 8 birds and then Ryle... List 2 was Sonia, 1 austringer, nino, gunslinger, 2 witch stalkers, and 2 guild guard I think... He kept close to Sonia for the 3 inch bubble of no spells and just kept shooting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyQubert Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 @ziggy I thought it was 4 inches for rats? Humm, thought it was 2", I could easily be wrong though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerealkiller195 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 i was the the guild player =D lucius list: Lucius Gov Proxy Austringer x2 Guild Guard x2 Guild Guard Captain Ryle Sonnia list: Sonnia w/ 5 stones starting, +2 for dropped scheme Austringer Guild Guard x2 Witchling Stalker x2 Nino Ortega Convict Gunslinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I'll agree with the others, only one Rat Catcher to start and only one or two Stolen to start. Keep a decent cache and add more rats. You want to try and out activate your opponent, saving Hamelin for last or near the last. By then on the first turn someone will hopefully be within range to make Insignificant. If not on Turn 1, by Turn 2 you should again out activate your opponent and have targets for Insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Joker :( Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I'll agree with the others, only one Rat Catcher to start and only one or two Stolen to start. Keep a decent cache and add more rats. You want to try and out activate your opponent, saving Hamelin for last or near the last. By then on the first turn someone will hopefully be within range to make Insignificant. If not on Turn 1, by Turn 2 you should again out activate your opponent and have targets for Insignificant. How would I be in range turn 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Humm, thought it was 2", I could easily be wrong though It's 4 inches mate How would I be in range turn 1? Depends if they come towards you - you've got a 20" threat range with Pipes for example (2x walk and 10" attack) which, if you start 12" on, gives you a 32" reach on the board. Another tip - take as many ss as you can, you should be using them to make insignificant impossible to resist and to get your triggers off. You can then lure in all the insig models for a killing spree, again using a ss to make it impossible to resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Joker :( Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Magic, do you start with rats or CR, and I'm assuming if you want stones you start with 1 catcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Magic, do you start with rats or CR, and I'm assuming if you want stones you start with 1 catcher? My "typical" 35ss list was - Hamelin Obedient Wretch Totem 2ss Nix 7ss Rat Catchers 5ss Mofo Rat 2ss Mofo Rat 2ss Canine Remains 2ss Canine Remains 2ss Canine Remains 2ss Terror Tot 3ss 8ss Cache // For a 30ss scrap I'd be tempted to drop 1xCR and go with 5ss cache - if you want more stones drop the tot and go with 8ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Joker :( Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Do you find the tot worth it? I mean it takes up until turn 3 to grow to mature... Unless you run 2 tots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Do you find the tot worth it? I mean it takes up until turn 3 to grow to mature... Unless you run 2 tots... Truth is you'll never get a mature in 9/10 games. I've played this out many times and found best bet is to turn it into a young in turn 1 if possible (kill rat, drain blood, grow - worth the cheating from your start hand) and then advance it up the field by charging your rats (i.e. activate them first, move them, then charge them with the young) until you need the neph in combat. That way you stand a chance of collecting blood counters (dont forget once it's a young you get (+1)melee expert), keep your movement, and have the young/maybe mature ready for combat when needed. Best advice, try it and see what you think Edited July 7, 2011 by magicpockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Joker :( Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Sure thing thanks for the advice! I'll try it out this weekend and post back what I find. I'll try a game with the tot and another with either a 4th CR or a stolen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGreen Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 magicpockets why would you not be able to use Drain Blood after make the Terror Tot attack using Obedience? Drain Blood says clearly that after you kill a model this may IMMEDIATELY take this action. Im not saying your wrong I am just asking why. (0) Drain Blood: This model may immediately use this Action after killing a living or Undead model. This model gains 1 Blood Counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 magicpockets why would you not be able to use Drain Blood after make the Terror Tot attack using Obedience? Drain Blood says clearly that after you kill a model this may IMMEDIATELY take this action. Im not saying your wrong I am just asking why. Obedience only allows you to take a (1)Action.. Unless you're Nix you don't get to take (0)Actions outside your own activations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 magicpockets why would you not be able to use Drain Blood after make the Terror Tot attack using Obedience? Drain Blood says clearly that after you kill a model this may IMMEDIATELY take this action. Im not saying your wrong I am just asking why. Because it's a (0) action. You have to do the (0) action immediately after the action which killed the model - you can't do it if you're not able to do a (0) action (like in this case). I'm sure there's a thread on it somewhere - will dig it out for you mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Tot needs a 9+ :masks to grow. Certainly there is a good chance to get it on turn1 but its a massive gambit. And Hamelin also needs those high s. On the other hand the Tot in itself is a good model for 3 SS. Just don't rely your strategy on maturing it. I'm also curious about the role of the Canine Remains. Overactivation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I'm also curious about the role of the Canine Remains. Overactivation? Copied from another thread where I gave reasons - ////// I dont rate blight counters other than the one extra wound, I've never cast the spell which uses them. I use the CR alongside Hamelin and keep the 2 rats with the catcher. Main reasons - 1) rats with Hamelin are lame as you need a Rat Catcher for kill all rats to get the proper activations - CR doesn't have that slow down. 2) CR are better for activation control as they don't have to activate all together 3) Hamelin is Fast and the CR can keep up with him much easier as they have 6" move and don't have slow. They also have better movement potential within his 6" voracious rats area of effect. 4) CR give -2DF which adds even more punch to Hamelin's combat if needed. 5) CR block line of sight so you can shield stolen if needed 6) CR can make disengaging strikes so you can pin models down and (usually) force a cheat by your opponent to get away so you get a new card 7) CR are undead (iirc?) and therefore dont take morale tests - so no fleeing rats 8) Hamelin accompanied by canine remains looks cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.