Possible lady j tourney list input/critique needed

[Odin1981]

I was playing around with making up a j list and thought this one up :

Lady J 8 cache

Lucious 10ss

2x austringers 10ss

2 death marshals 8ss

1 drill sergent 3ss

total 31/35 ss

The main concern I have at first glance is lack of a high amount of models but I was curious as to what anybody else see's that I could be missing.

It is also a rough draft so I haven't thought up a sideboard yet but I figure it will be more a wait and fill in after playtesting the basic list out.

[Necromorph]

That should really be fine...I mean you combine Lucius with 2 austringers (hell 2 austringers alone) you're pretty set. Then if you have anything able to keep enemies from flanking them it's pretty much auto-win...no joke (maybe a slight exageration...but if used correctly they really are retarded).

One of these days I'll get around to making that "I think Austringers are Broken...and here's why," post, but until then...happy hunting, lol.

[Odin1981]

That should really be fine...I mean you combine Lucius with 2 austringers (hell 2 austringers alone) you're pretty set. Then if you have anything able to keep enemies from flanking them it's pretty much auto-win...no joke (maybe a slight exageration...but if used correctly they really are retarded).

One of these days I'll get around to making that "I think Austringers are Broken...and here's why," post, but until then...happy hunting, lol.

Oh Adrian could you point out on the wicked doll where Dirty Sanchez violated you" (the name engraved on my solo austringer that you hate so much rofl).

[Necromorph]

I don't have enough fingers to point to that many spots on a doll at once lol.

[Hansel]

Dude, post about Austringers on the Tactica. I'd love to learn how they're borken, so I can use them effectively!

[Odin1981]

Austringers aren't broken they are just the guild's comparative model to the neverborne's stitched together (ie a underpointed cheap cost wise model that in a veteren's hands are very (I will repeat again for effect VERY effective for their cost ratio).

Guild for the most part are supremely straight forward. However from my experiance. Specifically the nuances involved with actually employing of the model is one of few choices guild has that are basically a test to the individual players standing on whether they(the player) are just above average or an expert with said players chosen faction.

I will briefly point out why this is so to highlight:

The appropriate use of deliever order usuage to set up a kill chain on elite models, and/or caster masters. The effective kill zone radius of deliver order on a austringer at the 6'' line in midfield is essentially 80% of the board in delivering companion to a model (and the corresponding kill team) that will focus on a high priority target.

The main example would be specifically in a primarley ortega list you generally split your models up into 3 groups around 2-3 models per group. With the vast range of deliver orders and the only drawback of needing los to one model to a group of a "kill team" you send it off to said model and get to start a companion chain.

After finishing the austringer activation you move directly to said model and can then companion the rest of their kill team to pull off 2-3 activations on said target.

My second point is they are a wonderful unit to draw out a masters soulstones for defensive flips (mainly casters).

Most caster that are usually problematic (ie pandora, dreamer, leveticus) to a vast majority of crews are rendered very hesitant to guild who have austringers in their lists. With a combat of 7 (versus a defense in most cases between 2-4) if you flip a 9 or higher you are basically making them spend a stone on their defensive flip and more than likely cheating a high card as well just to make you miss them (2 resources for at most one card cheated from your hand on a cheap 5 point model) or a ss on a damage prevention flip.

Also they make great totem killers or wounded models (generally models that if spirits only have 2 wounds or normal minions with 3 or fewer wounds remaining). Now you might ask why would I want to kill a totem? Well certain crews such as leve's hollow waif's, dreamers unburied daydreams, hamelins stolen, colludi's marieonettes and so forth are very reliant on not being dead for their main stratedgy of attack to work. With austringers weapon ignoring los and cover and (2) ap 18" strike you make it very very hard for them to keep them safe and their crews perspective models are very important for the optimum efficiency and usuage.

[Necromorph]

Well, here goes, I didn't want to do it, but whatevs, I'm bored.

So, first off, I think Austringers are probably the best 5ss model out there....and yes, I would much rather take on Stitched than Austringers any day of the week (or Ronin, or a Convict, or a Punk Zombie, etc etc etc), and I've seen how nasty those can be, but I don't think I'd ever call a Stitched broken (maybe with Collodi when they have Wp 8 haha).

So, we have a 5ss model with with a Cb of 7. Well, that's not completely unheard of but it's definitely rare and little strong for a RANGED model...none of the Snipers (well besides Nino but I guess that's Guild for ya) have 7cb, s**t even Schill doesn't have 7cb. Then we're gonna combine this with the fact that they ignore LoS and can make strikes at 12-18" range. This gives them insane board control because they don't even have to put themselves in harms way to do it. Sure they don't have a built in crit (I don't think they need it at all personally) but they provide a deterrent to the ENTIRE ENEMY CREW because they know they're going to be taking 2-8 dg on their nice models just by walking across the halfway mark of the table and there's nothing they can do about it.

Their Cb7, ignoring Los and long range also make them incredibly easy to place. If you ever place one of these out in the open or without adequate cover, you fail. They are SO easy to protect with the rest of your crew. Odin and I actually had a "what if" scenario where he told me his crew and then I named models that would be attempting to flank the Austringers, those that might actually have a chance of getting to them and killing them that is....which is Very few models.

Hooded Rider and Jack daw were the only 2 that I can field that can really get there. Now here's the problem....I'm spending a lot of resources (8-9ss models) to go after 5ss models that if I ignore, will pick apart the rest of my crew. Sure you can flank them and kill them, but not if they Guild player stops you...by shooting you with everything else or tying you up with an Executioner / Peacekeeper.

Now, "Why would I need such expensive models to go after an Austringer?" you might ask. Well, because if you get into combat with them they get a (1) action to simply push out of Combat. No cast, no resist, no parting strike, just bye bye. So, the model that is weakest in combat has a way to ensure they never stay in it, thus negating a big part of their really only 1 downside. So you have to get something nasty into combat with them, or that model will be killed by the Austringer and the chain of activations that they cause.

On to Deliver Orders. Yeah, I get it, it's a f**king bird that can fly around and deliver some notes. Basically, it's a Companion with anything but has a 24" range...oh goody! Sure you have to cast it, but you need a...4...really? So you get to attack with both Austringers (who don't have to worry about reprisal strikes) and then activate something else (Ryle, Santiago, Nino, Samael, etc etc etc). Well...yeah should be pretty self explanatory.

So, we hear about their "tactics" and how they're "competitive." Well when a model just has everything going for it, and insane stats, ofc it will be competitive, why....because when a model just has everything under the sun to make it as powerful as possible and it only costs you 5ss....it's broken. When 2 5ss models can kill 22ss of a 30ss crew, and never actually have to see them...they're broken. When a 5ss model can make some of the scariest MASTERS in the game go"Aww, S**t!" when they see them deployed, they're broken. I've never got a sinking feeling in my gut from seeing any model be placed on the table more than Austringers. Maybe the players around here just know how to abuse them more than others. Maybe people are nice and act like they're a taboo like the Alp Bomb, "Well I could do it, but it's just mean," kinda thing, who knows.

In sum, they are a very very very powerful model, that just has too many strong, easy abilities. Their power comes not in raw dg output, but in utility and board control, which surpasses damn near anything I've come across. They don't need Cb7, Deliver Orders, Ignoring Los, and the ability to push out of combat at not penalty for 5ss. I sincerely hope they get cuddled in the V2 cards for the book 2 models.

Sidenote: There are some crews that probably don't have much trouble with them...but very few. Off the top of my head I would say Dreamer and Kirai probably wont care much about them (or have a hard time killing them).

[Frostbeard]

An Austringers worst nightmare? Another Austringer with Initiative .. hehe.

[Necromorph]

Haha...indeed. Idk, they make Guild even more of a pain in the ass to play against than normal...and games vs Guild are almost never enjoyable to begin with.

"Oh you're coming to kill me with your Melee Crew?" /Yawn /flips card for Peacebringer strike.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Guild as a faction are Overpowered at all, but I feel that they require much less...(I really don't want to say skill even though that's what I mean) effort to play than other strong factions like...Neverborn/Outcasts. You sit there...you shoot, and you either outmanouver your opponent and win, or you don't and you lose. Hmmm...tactics abound!! The Viks are so straightforward it's almost silly, but the Guild are straightforward, and their way of balancing that is to make them have insane stats / dg for cheap. Yes they have low defensive stats, but getting there is the hard part, especially if you play against Lady J, Dita, or Hoff...they will shoot you to oblivion, and then engage you with models like Peacekeeper, Executioner, Lady J, etc, etc to keep you away from their shooters while they relocate. Incredibly effective, but not exactly a brain-wrenching strategy.

I guess by point here is, when you play against Guild you have to try/think/use strategy much more than your opponent who just has to sit back and shoot anything that pops it's head around cover. This leads to frustrating games that, while not unwinable, aren't exactly fun, "Oh Joy, I get to chase you around (or go for my objectives) all games while taking minimum 3wd from everything in your crew at 12"rg...:dance:." Austringers just compound this issue by providing decent damage, great crew synergy, incredibly board control and the ability to strike without fear of retaliation....for a relatively low hit to your ss cache. When combined with things like Ryle/Hoffman or Lucius....it gets a little excessive.

Bah, there I go ranting and thread jacking again. Honestly though, Odin, I think it's a very competitive Guild list that should be able to hold it's own against many of the tougher factions out there (despite my opinion of Guild/Austringers, lol). Just watch out for the Dreamer...one wrong move and those little bird-loving bastards will be toast, haha.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Necromorph

[Jonas Albrecht]

The Guild has force, but force alone does not grant victory in Malifaux. I'm still teaching this lesson to people who find themselves a top a mountain of bodies and 2-6 in Victory points for a loss at the end of turn six.

[Necromorph]

Agreed.

[mylastnerv]

Yeah, the strategy and schemes is what wins the game . . . not always being able to pile up the bodies.

Unless the strategy is to pile up the bodies . . . . then oh well.

[Odin1981]

Also the other models that are skill tests to me for guild would be in no particular order: watchers, abuela, executioner, and the model that after july when hounds get released I will enjoy the most in breaking the LAWYER.