EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ok, so I do love to talk Painting, even though I don't have nearly enough time to actually do it anymore, but I thought I'd start up a whole thread to discuss painting with you all. I figure that it will keep everything in one place, as sadly I also don't have time to keep up on all the forums posts anymore either So post up questions, discussion topic, minis you want feedback on, anything paint related, painting tool related, conversion/sculpting related, and I'll give my thoughts, instructions, feedback, anything really! It's Paint Talk! with EricJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Alleycat Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ok,let me be the first then lol. I would love to know a mild tidbit about the planned Avatar sculpts. Are they going to be on the same size bases? or on bigger bases? Reason I ask is I am allready planning on getting bases put together for Criid and Seamus. Also..Say someone dearly dearly wanted to be part of the Wyrd crew painting miniatures. What would I have to do to accomplish that? I know my painting has to increase in skill level,but im getting better all the time so I know I can. Since I started painting,the one goal i have would be to work for a company as awesome as Wyrd...and since there is only one company like that...I figure I would ask the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoeRender Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 This is an awesome idea for a thread , i cant wait to see where this goes ! I have been holding off on buying new paints , I feel my painting reached the point to where I really want to get technical , so the question I have is what paints do you recommend and which colors from which companies . I am going to make a bulk purchase of new paints . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onikaji Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Like FoeRender, I'm working on upping my skills, specifically I'm looking to do multi-layer blends, I have all the mediums, thinners, etc. generally needed, but the one thing I really have trouble with is getting the consistency of the blend right, I know "skim milk" is the target, but how do you know when you get there? usually it gets so thin, that it looks like i'm just wetting my brush instead of actually getting paint on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMac Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 It's Paint Talk! with EricJ Do you stick to any one line of paints, or do you find you use what you like from the different ranges? Along those lines; whose inks & washes do you prefer to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ok,let me be the first then lol. I would love to know a mild tidbit about the planned Avatar sculpts. Are they going to be on the same size bases? or on bigger bases? Reason I ask is I am allready planning on getting bases put together for Criid and Seamus. Also..Say someone dearly dearly wanted to be part of the Wyrd crew painting miniatures. What would I have to do to accomplish that? I know my painting has to increase in skill level,but im getting better all the time so I know I can. Since I started painting,the one goal i have would be to work for a company as awesome as Wyrd...and since there is only one company like that...I figure I would ask the source. Expect Avatars to be on 50mm bases The best way to work towards getting onto the Wyrd paint crew is to paint a lot of wyrd minis and show them off a lot! As you improve, the first step is usually getting our attention enough to start doing some minis for our demos at conventions like Gencon, where we need a ton of well painted (but not top level studio/display level). This gets you on our radar and we go from there. Don't hold your breathe for making it rich though, painting isn't exactly lucrative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 This is an awesome idea for a thread , i cant wait to see where this goes ! I have been holding off on buying new paints , I feel my painting reached the point to where I really want to get technical , so the question I have is what paints do you recommend and which colors from which companies . I am going to make a bulk purchase of new paints . My favorites are P3 and GW paints, which I generally use interchangeably, although I think I like the quality of the P3's a bit better, so usually paint with them more. But by using both brands you get a ton of color choices and subtle variations to play with in your painting. What I tend to look for is high density of pigment in the paint, and that it's ground very fine, which allows for thinning of the paint to go on in very thin layers. But bottom line is that nearly all the paints targeted to mini painters tend to be good quality, and in a lot of ways it's a matter of taste and style. I would even suggest getting 2-3 pots of different types and just try it out, and see how it feels on your brush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vxghost Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Are you perhaps going to be at KublaCon (in 2 weeks)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Like FoeRender, I'm working on upping my skills, specifically I'm looking to do multi-layer blends, I have all the mediums, thinners, etc. generally needed, but the one thing I really have trouble with is getting the consistency of the blend right, I know "skim milk" is the target, but how do you know when you get there? usually it gets so thin, that it looks like i'm just wetting my brush instead of actually getting paint on it. I actually HATE the term "skim milk" and its something I've seen in painting tutorials for YEARS. Just how thin is skim milk?! it's really quite an abstract term, and honestly, there are times in your painting when you'll want more or less paint in your brush depending on how much pigment you want to add at one time to your mini. Bottom line is you're not trying to reach some golden medium where there is the "correct" amount of paint, but rather get to a place where your paint is thin enough to flow freely from your brush. There is a whole range where this occurs. Sadly, you won't get comfortable with it until you do it a LOT. So step one is to simply get your paint watery enough so that it flows into your brush. The best way to tell if this is the case is to mix some paint, and with a dry brush, touch it with just the tip. If your paint wicks up into the brush, and is IN the bristles, not coated on the outside of your bristles, you're in a good range. I think however, step two is where most people make the biggest mistake. Step two is removing most of the paint from your brush, so that your bristles are damp but not wet. I hear so often about people getting this nice wet paint which flows easily, and then trying to paint and having it just pool up in the cracks of the mini. If you ever get anything close to pooling, you have WAY too much paint in your brush. When I paint, I usually get just a little paint on the brush, then run it over my palate 2-3-5-9 times to remove paint so there is just enough to keep the bristles damp. When you get the right amount of paint on your brush, you run the brush over the mini, and you are putting down just a very thin layer of paint, without pooling. And once you put down that layer, it should dry in about 20-30 seconds at most (sometimes 2-5 seconds), so even though you're putting down layers which barely change the look of the mini, you can put down 10-20-50 layers very quickly to build up color, and allow you to get really nice clean blending. Again, the amount of paint on your brush also can vary depending on what you want to do, and again it's all based on doing it over and over to get a feel for it. But if you EVER get pooling, you're not doing it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Do you stick to any one line of paints, or do you find you use what you like from the different ranges? Along those lines; whose inks & washes do you prefer to use. I use P3 and GW probably about 99% of the time. And I Actually never use inks or washes, but rather just use watered down versions of paints I already own. I also never use any thinner other than simple water, which I find does the trick just perfectly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Are you perhaps going to be at KublaCon (in 2 weeks)? Sadly no I had hoped to stop by, but unfortunately my sister is coming to town who I haven't seen in a LONG time, and I plan to spend the weekend with her. Every year something seems to come up on Memorial day weekend for me! And you are so close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onikaji Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Again, the amount of paint on your brush also can vary depending on what you want to do, and again it's all based on doing it over and over to get a feel for it. But if you EVER get pooling, you're not doing it right. Haha, I'm clearly doing it wrong then... good to know, I'm working on a pathfinder mini for use at Kublacon right now, so I'll try those tips, Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hi Eric, nice idea for a thread! I've found in recent years that my painting appears to have plateaued, and that the stuff I'm doing now isn't any better than the models I painted way back when. Do you believe that the best paint jobs are attainable by anyone with enough practise? Or do you think that everyone has their own personal ceiling? If it's the former, any tips on how to break through that ceiling (wherever it might be) and for a person to take their painting to the next level? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafruk Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 How do you approach picking colour schemes? Random inspiration, structured using things like a colour wheel, combo of the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Do you have a particular process for priming your models? What primers do you prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Alleycat Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Expect Avatars to be on 50mm bases The best way to work towards getting onto the Wyrd paint crew is to paint a lot of wyrd minis and show them off a lot! As you improve, the first step is usually getting our attention enough to start doing some minis for our demos at conventions like Gencon, where we need a ton of well painted (but not top level studio/display level). This gets you on our radar and we go from there. Don't hold your breathe for making it rich though, painting isn't exactly lucrative I don't care about making it rich lol. The painting I do is because I love painting,it relaxes me,and I can occassionally pay for my gaming habits with it lol. So I take it being able to go to Gencon with several armies I painted that were all spiffy looking and offering them up as demo fodder would be a good thing then? And sweet,thanks for info on Avatar bases I appreciate it. Have a image in my head of a rolling wave of flame that Sonnia is going to be riding the crest of for her avatar base and wanted to get started on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Expect MOST Avatars to be on 50mm bases Fixed that for Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaine Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Ok one for Eric, How do you see the future of Wyrd paint contests, Wyrd used to run more of these i believe and alot of the original forum followers who used the wyrd forums to display and critique seem to have drifted away. I know you guys are just swamped with Malifaux, and Wyrd has now matured into a great miniature company based more around Malifaux, than the original independent mini's concept. But curious to know if there is a plan for more iron painter, rotten harvest and other contests, or if Wyrd would prefer to simply sponsor those events in a different location. While we are on the subject of painting i thought i'd mention another forum that i admin on, Platoon Britannica, originally started as a way to improve the painting standards of uk painters and to help us take back the sword (which we did when Ben won the GD 2 years ago with the clockmaker), although uk focused all are welcome and we have some professional painters floating around helping people progress their own skills. Edited May 17, 2011 by Kaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hi Eric, nice idea for a thread! I've found in recent years that my painting appears to have plateaued, and that the stuff I'm doing now isn't any better than the models I painted way back when. Do you believe that the best paint jobs are attainable by anyone with enough practise? Or do you think that everyone has their own personal ceiling? If it's the former, any tips on how to break through that ceiling (wherever it might be) and for a person to take their painting to the next level? Mike I don't think there is a ceiling for a person to achieve. However, I do think there there is a ceiling that can be reached if a person just sticks to the same techniques without expanding to try new and more challenging things. If you have been hitting a ceiling, I expect it's because you've perfected the techniques you have, and keep using them over and over hoping for improved results. There is good news though! The most important part of painting isn't based on techniques, but rather a combination of brush control, comfort with the paints, and comfort with painting items mini sized, all of which is constantly improved even if you're results aren't. What it means is that even though you're results may not feel better, since you've been painting more and more, your core skills have been improving, which means you're likely more than ready to take on some more challenging techniques! Here comes the hard part though...more advanced techniques aren't used as much for a reason, and that's because they are challenging! Often times when you try something more difficult, it may feel like you're painting is going backwards, since the results are worse. But don't let that get you down, there is a reward at the end of busting through your plateau! I'm not sure exactly where your skills are topping off, but typically the absolute best thing is to work on your blending more and more, as smooth transition of color, tone, and hue is at the core of most of the more advanced techniques. After that you just need to pick something and go for it, and accept that you'll have failures, and just keep going anyway! I'm happy to discuss more what effects you'd like to achieve and what skills/techniques to work on more specifically. Just let me know better where you're at, and where you want to get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 How do you approach picking colour schemes? Random inspiration, structured using things like a colour wheel, combo of the two? Ah, color theory! While it's important to have a firm understanding of the color wheel, the biggest lesson from the color wheel is understanding just how many different combos actually do work and look good to the eye. Of course it also tells you how many don't work. That is important, but due to the possibilities, the color wheel doesn't really give you specific direction, just an understanding of the lay of the land (so to speak). So yes, a lot comes from inspiration! One of the best sources of inspiration is to look at the world around you. If you're thinking about painting clothes, look at fashion, look at what works, the color combination which makes you think one person is dressed in a way that catches your eye, while another isn't. Also look at other products, even web sites! What colors are they using and how does it affect you when you look at it. Even look at the natural world. What makes a flower so beautiful, or the ocean, and how exactly are the colors creating that effect. A huge part of this is understanding core colors and accent colors. If you look at a flower arrangement, the core color is green, and then say there is accents of white with perhaps red flowers. Now if you take that color combination to a mini and paint it mostly red, with a touch of white and green, you have used the same colors, but you've used them in a different way than the flower arrangement, and therefor will yield a much different result. So yes, inspiration comes from everywhere, but the key is in developing your eye to be able to see what works, why it works, and then just how to use it and translate the color scheme to a different place (like a miniature) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Do you have a particular process for priming your models? What primers do you prefer? I always use white brush on primer. This is a VERY unpopular answer if you poll painters from everywhere, and every level of skill. Nearly everyone I know uses some form of spray on, and typically seems to use grey or black, since it helps build their shading from the start. I don't like spray on simply because I have screwed up too many minis that way! So I gave it up. I figure I'm about to put 15-20+ layers of paint carefully placed on every surface of the mini, so what's one more layer! I've also found over the years that it's nice to get your brush on the mini at this point, because it allows you to get to know the mini a little better before starting in with your colors, and more than once it's allowed me to notice some detail or something about the mini I hadn't before. I like white because I think that ultimately it allows my colors to get brighter and more vibrant than having to build up over black. I simply find shading easier to do over white, than highlighting is to do over black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I don't care about making it rich lol. The painting I do is because I love painting,it relaxes me,and I can occassionally pay for my gaming habits with it lol. So I take it being able to go to Gencon with several armies I painted that were all spiffy looking and offering them up as demo fodder would be a good thing then? And sweet,thanks for info on Avatar bases I appreciate it. Have a image in my head of a rolling wave of flame that Sonnia is going to be riding the crest of for her avatar base and wanted to get started on it. I don't know if there is any one good way to catch our attention, particularly since we actually rarely add new painters to the mix. In the past we would contact painters who impressed us from our online painting contests, but since it's been way to long since we had one of those, it's harder. (although hopefully we'll get some more painting contests going in one form or another here soon!). Really the best way is to post up more minis, talk about painting, show of your work so you're on our radars when we get to a point which we're looking for painters for something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ok one for Eric, How do you see the future of Wyrd paint contests, Wyrd used to run more of these i believe and alot of the original forum followers who used the wyrd forums to display and critique seem to have drifted away. I know you guys are just swamped with Malifaux, and Wyrd has now matured into a great miniature company based more around Malifaux, than the original independent mini's concept. But curious to know if there is a plan for more iron painter, rotten harvest and other contests, or if Wyrd would prefer to simply sponsor those events in a different location. While we are on the subject of painting i thought i'd mention another forum that i admin on, Platoon Britannica, originally started as a way to improve the painting standards of uk painters and to help us take back the sword (which we did when Ben won the GD 2 years ago with the clockmaker), although uk focused all are welcome and we have some professional painters floating around helping people progress their own skills. We did slow down on our painting contest, and sadly this was more due to a lack of support for them than a lack of desire on our part. We loved our contests, since Nathan and I were both painters first who got into miniature/game development second. Simply as the focus of the forum attracted more and more types of people, it seemed to chase away a lot of the pure paint focused forum members. We have discussed this a lot behind the scenes but sadly haven't come up with a good solution! We think we have one of the best gaming forums around, with a ton of wonderful and fun people getting involved every day, so we don't want to get too heavy handed to change the makeup of the forums to bring back painting. But of course we keep an eye on things and will bring back contests when we thing it will work well! That said, we love our Iron Painter and are working now to relaunch the contest in what we hope will be a more fun and more supported format. But like everything it takes time, and needs to fit in with everything else, so it'll be ready when it's ready (no promises right now on a time line!) And I hadn't see that forum before, but it looks great, I expect I'll take some time looking around over there now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaine Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 And I hadn't see that forum before, but it looks great, I expect I'll take some time looking around over there now Your more than welcome to join in (time permitting), and even if you only drop by occasionally i'm sure you'll find some interesting stuff going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ok i have a question actually. I recently painted a convict gunslinger and to be honest i think its the best thing ive painted to date. But i want to keep pushing and get better so im at a level where im not scared to take on any project. I'd like your feedback on what i can improve, what you think works/doesnt. You wont hurt my feelings so be brutally honest please. (note the metal showing in the pic from the back has been all fixed up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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