SteamHammer Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 State leader or powerful single person villain? State leader. You need no reason. Empire building, resource grabbing, pure expansionist. Take your pick. Single person. Fanaticism either religious or otherwise. Delusions of power or insanity making them believe they could single handedly take over the world. Or make it a mask for something else. They pretend to want to take over the world so nobody will notice the specific locations/artefacts/people they seize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 ...man, where were you guys when I was trying to write a novel five years ago...sheesh. I couldn't get an actual answer to that question back then, and now I've got more answers than I actually could use, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamHammer Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 It helps that you ask on Friday when everyone wants to be doing anything other than working. Plus you asked in the right place now. We're helpful and smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Ain't that the truth. Plus, you're all either A) Readers, or Writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 ...man, where were you guys when I was trying to write a novel five years ago...sheesh. I couldn't get an actual answer to that question back then, and now I've got more answers than I actually could use, lol Possibly the biggest reason i can think of for someone to try and gain as much power as possible is paranoia....those heathens in the next country are plotting something, we need to stop them before it gets too late...but of course, their neighbours may be in on it too! The fear of being weak is a powerful motivator for the paranoid mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Ain't that the truth. Plus, you're all either A) Readers, or Writers. or C) Plainly got too much floating around in our heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrocles Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Afternoon all. So yeah, jumping into this particular conversation a little late buuuut... See, I agree with the black library comment in the main, but will argue that Gaunts Ghosts and The Horus Heresy series are (in my opinion) really good reads... Specifically, things written by Dan Abnett are superb (Eisenhorn and Ravenor, as have been mentioned). But I always enjoyed Gaunts Ghosts as well. Gav Thorpes stuff is nothing more than 'brain candy' (I like that phrase), but entertaining enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWhoFell Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Ain't that the truth. Plus, you're all either A) Readers, or Writers. or C) Plainly got too much floating around in our heads I vote D) all of the above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I most definitely fall into D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I find myself defending the Heresy series a lot. Especially Descent of Angels. I think what made people so angry was the fact that it wasn't a 'space marine' book. But to really appreciate it you need to read it with Fallen Angels and Angels of darkness.....things become clear then. There are a couple of books where the writing is suspect but compared to some BL crap I've read, I have found every author to be enjoyable, and actually quite good. Abnett, McNeill, Swallow and Dembski-boden are the stand outs, but the others deserve more credit than they actually get. And besides, they are writing about a history that most fans know..and have their own opinions on how characters should be portrayed and events described. When the authors don't match their ideas, this is where the grating starts. My advice for the Heresy series...approach every book with an open mind if possible...read it for the light read it is, and enjoy the sheer madness of it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Possibly the biggest reason i can think of for someone to try and gain as much power as possible is paranoia....those heathens in the next country are plotting something, we need to stop them before it gets too late...but of course, their neighbours may be in on it too! The fear of being weak is a powerful motivator for the paranoid mind... Hadn't thought of the fear of being weak one. The idea I wanted to go with, just because it's rarely done, is that the villains of the piece will be a small, ambitious nation with high levels of technology. Basically the opposite of David Weber's stuff, if you're familiar with that. And some of the other nations decide they want to take the first shot in the war, and stop things before they get started. Just needed some ideas on reasons behind the ambition. or C) Plainly got too much floating around in our heads Quite possibly, although I'm not complaining! In unrelated news...my username is already taken in Nanowrimo's site... (sad face) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 And in addendum to what AB just said, remember that Magnus was right all along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I find myself defending the Heresy series a lot. Especially Descent of Angels. I think what made people so angry was the fact that it wasn't a 'space marine' book. But to really appreciate it you need to read it with Fallen Angels and Angels of darkness.....things become clear then. There are a couple of books where the writing is suspect but compared to some BL crap I've read, I have found every author to be enjoyable, and actually quite good. Abnett, McNeill, Swallow and Dembski-boden are the stand outs, but the others deserve more credit than they actually get. And besides, they are writing about a history that most fans know..and have their own opinions on how characters should be portrayed and events described. When the authors don't match their ideas, this is where the grating starts. My advice for the Heresy series...approach every book with an open mind if possible...read it for the light read it is, and enjoy the sheer madness of it all! Legion might be one of the better books I've ever read, just as a book. It was a fantastic read. If you were to only read a single book in the series I would advise that one to people. I've gotten some of my non gamer friends to read it and they thought it was amazing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamHammer Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 If they're the more technologically advanced then of course they aren't being malicious in invading other countries. They're just wanting to help those poor backwards peasants towards a better life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 And in addendum to what AB just said, remember that Magnus was right all along! Maybe, but he is still a thousand son ponce... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I find myself defending the Heresy series a lot. Especially Descent of Angels. I think what made people so angry was the fact that it wasn't a 'space marine' book. But to really appreciate it you need to read it with Fallen Angels and Angels of darkness.....things become clear then. Actually, it wasn't the 'lack of space marines' aspect to it. Personally, I despise Space Marines as main characters. With a few, rare, exceptions (most of them from HH) they are flat, boring, one dimensional characters with nothing really interesting to set them apart. (Uriel Ventris, I'm looking at you!) No, my problem with Descent of Angels was that it didn't have the same 'feel' as the preceding books. It felt like just another BL book, not a Horus Heresy novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 And in addendum to what AB just said, remember that Magnus was right all along! He was right but went about it the wrong way. I'm curious as to what chapter the space wolves dealt with before the thousand sons. They've mentioned it across a few books now, but no one has gone further into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrocles Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I have found myself in a similar situation with the Dark Angels background, but for me it works, I like it and it adds some depth to the fluff for my favourite Imperial army. Still prefer the pointy hats though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 If they're the more technologically advanced then of course they aren't being malicious in invading other countries. They're just wanting to help those poor backwards peasants towards a better life. exactly....and if they have to wipe out virtually all the population to do so...well, its their own fault. Acceptable losses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 edonil, just don't use the motivator I used in a short comic strip called Fag Chase (fag as in cigarette, not homosexual). It had a race of living, intelligent cigarettes trying to take over the world, the motivation being that King Puff (their leader) decided to take over the world in order to make everyone quit smoking through harsh laws and harsher penalties for breaking those laws since if they kept smoking, the race of living cigarettes would become extinct in time. They were later defeated by a sudden appearance of a Godzilla-like creature appearing and burning them to a crisp with its mighty breath. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before that I tend to come up with some pretty surreal things. I'm kinda like Roman Dirge, but reality has a far looser grip on me than it does him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrocles Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 A(Uriel Ventris, I'm looking at you!) Ventris' boring-ness stems from the fact that he is an Ultramarine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Ventris' boring-ness stems from the fact that he is an Ultramarine... True, that doesn't help at all. (shakes head) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Actually, it wasn't the 'lack of space marines' aspect to it. Personally, I despise Space Marines as main characters. With a few, rare, exceptions (most of them from HH) they are flat, boring, one dimensional characters with nothing really interesting to set them apart. (Uriel Ventris, I'm looking at you!) No, my problem with Descent of Angels was that it didn't have the same 'feel' as the preceding books. It felt like just another BL book, not a Horus Heresy novel. yeah i can get that too...I think though you were expecting it to be similar, and that disappointed you. I make it a habit to not read any trailers for the forthcoming books and approach them fresh. And also to expect the odd 'prequel' or side story too.... He was right but went about it the wrong way. I'm curious as to what chapter the space wolves dealt with before the thousand sons. They've mentioned it across a few books now, but no one has gone further into it. One of the expunged legions is the favourite theory.... edonil, just don't use the motivator I used in a short comic strip called Fag Chase (fag as in cigarette, not homosexual). It had a race of living, intelligent cigarettes trying to take over the world, the motivation being that King Puff (their leader) decided to take over the world in order to make everyone quit smoking through harsh laws and harsher penalties for breaking those laws since if they kept smoking, the race of living cigarettes would become extinct in time. They were later defeated by a sudden appearance of a Godzilla-like creature appearing and burning them to a crisp with its mighty breath. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before that I tend to come up with some pretty surreal things. I'm kinda like Roman Dirge, but reality has a far looser grip on me than it does him I'd buy that for a dollar!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 edonil, just don't use the motivator I used in a short comic strip called Fag Chase (fag as in cigarette, not homosexual). It had a race of living, intelligent cigarettes trying to take over the world, the motivation being that King Puff (their leader) decided to take over the world in order to make everyone quit smoking through harsh laws and harsher penalties for breaking those laws since if they kept smoking, the race of living cigarettes would become extinct in time. They were later defeated by a sudden appearance of a Godzilla-like creature appearing and burning them to a crisp with its mighty breath. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before that I tend to come up with some pretty surreal things. I'm kinda like Roman Dirge, but reality has a far looser grip on me than it does him ...uh huh. I'd say you're safe with that one staying as your idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) He was right but went about it the wrong way. I'm curious as to what chapter the space wolves dealt with before the thousand sons. They've mentioned it across a few books now, but no one has gone further into it. Well, since the Emperor decided that the use of sorcery was against the Imperial Creed there wasn't much Magnus and his boys could really do since they'd been ruled as outcasts by their own father/grandfather. Odd that 7 years later the same Emperor (or Tracey to his friends) suddenly decides that the use of sorcery is fine in hiding the moon of Titan in the Warp for centuries and uses the genetics from 4 chaos marines (among the aspirants chosen, 1 was even from the World Eaters!) to form the Grey knights. yeah, well done Weird Ward, you finally ruined one of the final true mysteries to the 40k universe to revealing everything about the creation of the GK in such ridiculous fan boy fashion. AB - Fag Chase was later collected into the one shot Mini Adventures of Amy & Jenny small press comic, it boasted 500 copies and I only have my personal copy left, wherever that is (it's in a box... somewhere). it contained all 76 of the A&J strips along with the 12 part Fag Chase (every strip was a page long and people I knew usually ended up suffering by becoming a caricature of themselves in it heheh). I did see a copy on Ebay a few years ago which made my day (though I think it was selling for pennies, lol). Edited September 30, 2011 by LonelyPath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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