New Nico Player

[Shenron]

So, I have recently discovered this game and I ordered the Nico box set.

I am wondering what else I need to get to flesh out my team? And what should a good list look like?

[greenbull]

Vulture and mindless zombies to start with.

And welcome to this game and community!

I'm sure others will comment further on what to take for Nicodem.

Edited March 30, 2011 by greenbull

[poulpox]

Hey welcome!

Have a read through this thread it's got lots of good info. There are different takes on what Nico should start with, but one of the recurring themes is:

6x mindless zombies

2+ canine remains

1 Vulture or Grave spirit

+ some Crooked men or Belles or Necropunks

+ 1 flesh construct?

Then one optional big hitter like KillJoy, Bete Noire, Hanged, (Jack Daw?)

It seems that hiring models with big bases (KillJoy, or maybe even Hamelin?) is a good investment as it gives you 3 corpse counters when that model dies.

I am also starting Nico and had this list in mind for 30ss:

Mortimer 7ss

Killjoy 11ss

4x Canine Remains 8ss

keeping 4ss for the cache

Hope this helps

[Shenron]

That is a list.

So, and that is a lot of models. I have the Box Set on order...so I do not know how that helps...

I am still very new to the rules as well, so I do not understand a lot either.

I want to shoot for a 35ss team...

Edited March 30, 2011 by Shenron

[Q'iq'el]

So, I have recently discovered this game and I ordered the Nico box set.

I am wondering what else I need to get to flesh out my team? And what should a good list look like?

Nicodem is one of the low-synergy/high flexibility masters. He doesn't have all that many "tricks" that would tie him to specific minions, but he does have a general ability to Bolster Undead (arguably the best buff Undead fighters can get in the game) and an ability to both heal friendly undead and damage the opponent with the same AoE spell.

Himself he is a bad melee fighter and is susceptible to ranged strikes (very low Df). To counter this, Nico surounds himself with Mindless Zombies, which he can create either with his (0) ability (a bit of a waste, because you want to spend that on buffing your undead with Bolster) or simply by delivering a killing blow and using his trigger.

You need at least 3 Mindless Zombies for that purpose. 6 or more will work too, but there's a point at which Mindless Zombies start to impede your other models (most of his crew is melee and needs to be able to reach the opponent). I know 2 Nicodem players who field just 3 Mindless Zombies as an escort and prefer the remaining "dead" to stay as Corpse Counters on the table, but I personally would probably field 6 MZs.

Nicodem is also very slow. Possibly the slowest model in the entire game. You can mitigate it with Mortimer (Fresh meat works on Nicodem too), but you can also use his totems to mitigate the issues arising from being slow. Unlike most totems, which can barely attempt to cast their masters' spells, Vultures can perch themselves at the right spot and then become the eyes of Nicodem - he casts the spells with his own AP, but draws the LoS and Range from the Vulture. Because vultures are very fast, flying and can finish the movement in impassable terrain (perch), you can very easily negotiate angles and find new firing lanes for Nicodem, without wasting his AP for his very slow movement.

As a bonus, vultures can also send nearby Corpse Counters directly to Nicodem.

You can use 2 and you should get 2.

Punk Zombies are the mainstay of any Nicodem force. They are extremely good fighters under influence of his buff and can dispatch a master with only a little effort. In other models you look for utility, rather than killing power:

Flesh constructs for meatwall.

Crooked men for ranged attacks and area denial.

Belles to mess up opponents' positioning tricks.

Dogs or Necropunks for sheer speed.

Nurses if you feel you want to buff your models even further.

He lacks somewhat in the 50mm base class of the heaviest hitters/tanks some other crews can deploy. Two models in this class that he could use (Undead Rider and Rogue Necromancy) haven't been released yet. You can still deal with these models by bogging them down and keeping the heals up on your regular 30 and 40mm fighters.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Shenron]

So here is what I got for my starting list;

1x Nicodem

1x Mortimer

3x Punk Zombies

I will need for sure;

3x Mindless Zombies (At least)

2x Vultures

[greenbull]

I think most people keep it at 1 vulture. I own Nicodem, but I've always played McMourning, so I can't give very detailed info about Nico...

Except for the vulture and mindless zombies, everything else is perfectly usable under other masters as well, so no lost investment there.

[Q'iq'el]

I see no reason to limit yourself to 1 Vulture. Why? It's only 2 points and it is definitely more useful than any other mini you can buy for the price (not to mention, that Nicodem can raise any other mini for the price anyway).

Vultures are not extremely survivable and it is useful to have some redundancy here.

I forgot about Bête Noire. I'd suggest getting her immediately after you get your Mindless Zombies and Vultures. She's great help to Nicodem (her ability to appear exactly where she's needed and immediately deal with the threat is very valuable to otherwise slowish crew) and benefits tremendously from his buffs too.

But yes, 3~6 Mindless Zombies and 2 Vultures is the way to get out of the starting box and get to play 25~30 soulstone games. Then probably Crooked Men and Dogs or Necropunks.

[Shenron]

So, here would be my list. I am not sure on the ss cost, but ya..

1x Nicodem

1x Mortimer

3x Punk Zombies

3x Mindless Zombies (At least)*

2x Vultures*

1x Belle Noir*

The Mindless Zombies are not fielded until summoned right? Do they still count to ss cost?

[Q'iq'el]

The Mindless Zombies are not fielded until summoned right? Do they still count to ss cost?

No. All models you "summon" are free as far as SS cost goes. You pay for them in a way by spending your cards and your action points on bringing them in.

Mindless Zombies appear as a result of Nicodem's (0)Arise action, or from his trigger (better way of bringing them in). They are also quite complex as far as controlling them goes - make sure you read their rules properly and then all the rules related to MZ Nicodem himself has.

Basicaly if the MZ is close enough, Nicodem can sacrifice it to cancel the hit against him. Nicodem can control Zombies in certain range, but others slip out of control and start moving and attacking on their own.

Bête Noire is quite complex as far as deployment goes too (She appears after a model gets killed or sacrificed. Because of activation order, it is generally better to bring her in when the opponent kills your own model, because you can immediately strike back with her. However, simultaneous activation is something to look out for). You have to pay full price for her too.

Because you don't pay for models you summon with Nico's and Mortimer's spells, you can cut down on those a bit. If you play small game but still want to bring Mortimer, Bête Noire and both Vultures, you can cut down on Punk Zombies and create new ones during the game, once the killing starts.

[Shenron]

That is some good info.

What would be a good list for 35ss? Including summoning models, etc.

[Koali]

I Think the Killjoylist could work very well:

Nico,

2 Vultures

3 Necropunks

Dog

Mortimer

Killjoy

To summon:

at least one belle (to pull Killjoy or the opponent where you want them to be)...

3 Punks

6-8 Mindless Zombies (You´ll need a lot of them).

[poulpox]

Or if you wanted to use Bete Noire instead of KillJoy:

starting crew:

Nico

Mortimer 7ss

2 Vulture 4ss

Bete Noire 9ss

4 Dogs 8ss

1 Necropunk 3ss

(Saving 4ss, I think casters should really have a good ss cache)

to summon:

6 mindless zombies

3 punk zombies

and maybe

3 crooked man

1 flesh construct

[Q'iq'el]

Or if you wanted to use Bete Noire instead of KillJoy:

starting crew:

Nico

Mortimer 7ss

2 Vulture 4ss

Bete Noire 9ss

4 Dogs 8ss

1 Necropunk 3ss

(Saving 4ss, I think casters should really have a good ss cache)

to summon:

6 mindless zombies

3 punk zombies

and maybe

3 crooked man

1 flesh construct

Yup, I like this list a lot.

Gotta remember Malifaux is first and foremost objective-oriented. Nicodem is very flexible, but disadvantaged when it comes to speed and many objectives require either spreading the crew around (which means large part of the crew is outside of his aura) or getting to the objectives before the opponent.

A list which can start out with the faster models (Dogs, Necropunks etc.) can ensure they get to complete the speed-requiring objectives at least partially. As your "light" undead die, you use the corpse counters to raise more heavy-duty crew, reform, and strong-arm the remainder of the objectives.

At the same time if you have to defend something or capture some terrain, there's nothing like a solid list of fighty zombies and the speed doesn't matter much, so you can start out with Punk Zombies and Crooked Men and then replenish the army as they die.

In other words, what Poulpox proposes gives Nicodem a flexible list for most occasions.

[hippieshopper]

I would go with...

Nico

Mindless Zombies

1 Vulture

Morty if your enemy is not dropping counters, Sebastian if they are

3 Punk Zombies

2 Canine Remains

1 Rotten Belle

Leaving you with a few extra SS to make sure you Paralyze people if they get to close to Nico.

[Shenron]

Thanks, I will keep all of this in mind. I really appreciate the help.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Against shootey lists, hold onto your Masks, as Fog is a lifesaver.

Fresh Meat is the best spell Mortimer has, and will get your crew rolling like a ball of doom.

Bete Noir is fantastic at objective completion.

[hippieshopper]

Oh yeah, Fog is outstanding.

Morty has a (0) action that helps him out big time with shooty lists too.

and Bete can come out and teleport where she wants =P

Crooked Men are pretty good too because they have a ranged spell of their own and 6 Df against ranged attacks.

[Black Matt]

hey fellas,

I am also in the same situation as shenron, except I have already bought some models I thought were to awesome to pass up. Mortimer and THE HAnged are really the reason I am getting into this game. DUmb? Maybe but Im a modeler so we will see. I bought the nico box set and the hanged blister. My list for a 25ss, (which i havent even seen played yet,) is

nico

mortimer7ss

2x the hanged 8ss ea.

7+16=23

Is this going to work and why havent anyone suggested using the hanged? Do they suck in game play?

@shenron

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but it looked like they answered your ?

[Q'iq'el]

nico

mortimer7ss

2x the hanged 8ss ea.

7+16=23

Is this going to work and why havent anyone suggested using the hanged? Do they suck in game play?

Nah, Hanged are OK. Unlike all the new Spirits designed to work with Kirai, Hanged are designed for the old masters and work with each of them. Actually, they are probably the only spirit you'd consider taking with Nicodem, if you like them.

If you take look at Nicodem's most important spells - Decay & Rigor Mortis, they are both resisted with WP. The Hanged can force :flip- on the WP duels (with their Trigger) and for an opponent resisting with WP it is a WP duel. In other words, they greatly increase the effectiveness of Nicodem's main spells.

There are two big drawbacks of hiring spirits for Nicodem:

1) You cannot summon them - if they die, they are gone.

2) Because you cannot summon them, you have to pay for them and between Bête Noire, Mortimer and the fast models you may want to start with there are few precious points left.

I probably would never take more than one Hanged, but I suppose there may be some build out there that uses both (perhaps with the connection to Jack Daw?).

You still need your Mindless Zombies and Vultures are greatly recommended (some people go for the Grave Guard instead).

Edited April 1, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Q'iq'el]

I think we are going quite deep into Nicodem tactics here, and there's already a very good thread commenting on most of the crew choices, which also has some good discussion on tactics in the following posts:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13690

Just make sure you double-check the specific rules being discussed in the thread - some of the observations are obsolete due to V2 cards and the new PDF Rules Manual having just been released.

[Wodschow]

There are two big drawbacks of hiring spirits for Nicodem:

1) You cannot summon them - if they die, they are gone.

2) Because you cannot summon them, you have to pay for them and between Bête Noire, Mortimer and the fast models you may want to start with there are few precious points left.

Huh..? Not being able to summon them would be the primary reason for me to hire them from the beginning as they'd otherwise be entirely unavailable..

Generally costing a fair amount of stones and not dropping any corpses is less attractive though..

[Q'iq'el]

Huh..? Not being able to summon them would be the primary reason for me to hire them from the beginning as they'd otherwise be entirely unavailable..

Generally costing a fair amount of stones and not dropping any corpses is less attractive though..

Perhaps I made too much of a mental leap and thus became unclear - you have to pay for them to field them, you can't replace them once they die (by re-summoning) and you cannot get around their cost with summoning in the first place.

If I still take them, I wouldn't want them to die (because of the above), so the lack of Corpse Counter is, at least for me, a lesser issue (if things go so wrong that my Hanged die, the corpse counters would be unlikely to help me anyway).

[Black Matt]

Thanks for the direction fellas.

The hanged, great models with meh gameplay. Got it.

[Q'iq'el]

Thanks for the direction fellas.

The hanged, great models with meh gameplay. Got it.

It's less of a "meh" issue and more of a scaling issue. They are chiefly a support model and you need to put some Zombie meat on the table first. Then there are higher priority support models, like Mortimer, Sebastian or Bête Noire...

Once you start playing 40~45 soulstone games, there appears some comfort zone you can use to add more support and a Hanged or two wouldn't hurt at all.