Avarice711 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 i am curious on what people's feelings are on this deck. I for one dislike playing against them as it's hard for someone to read the cards from across the table, especially the suit, yes i love the idea of plastic cards and cool artwork but I believe they really hamper the game, so I ask you all how you feel on the matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 From a visual standpoint, I think the deck is awesome. From a game standpoint, I hate them. I have to always take the card and look at it up close to see the number and suit, it's annoying to play against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccasionalMisfyr Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I, for one, have to say that there are a lot of issues that I have with these as well. It would be really easy, with fast flipping, to declare things that don't necessarily work out. As you have mentioned already, the cards are very hard to read at a distance. I would hope the player would be an honest one, but let's face it, that's not always the case. In the end, I would always lean away from use of the Puppet Deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) I really have no issues with them at all. but as I play with them I've got so used to the images that I can tell what a card is at a distance. For instance I can tell you off the top of my head that Seamus is 13 crows, Perdita 11 rams, Nicodem 12 crows, Ramos 13 tomes, Hoffman 10 rams, Guild Guard 5 rams, Sorrows 2 masks, McMourning 11 crows, Lilith 13 masts, Pandora 12 masks, Kirai 10 crows, Bete 9 crows, Sybelle 8 crows etc So I find it much easier to read from a distance. An image the size of a card is easier than a small icon in the corner to read. Edited January 21, 2011 by Ratty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vybeosa Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I also greatly dislike them. I'm never able to read the suit and have a hard time reading the number. As a reslt I have to ask my opponent what he flipped all the time, even though it's right in front of me. For me the base deck has a much better design for its purpose, with clear contrast where it's needed. Plus they are color coded depending on the suit, don't need to look for the suit symbol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avarice711 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 ok so now that i've gotten some responses do you think not allowing them at a tournament too unreasonable especially when the entry fee is 5 dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgaunt98c Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I wouldn't think it'd be a major problem, unless you have alot of players who only have a puppet deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad the Mad Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 ok so now that i've gotten some responses do you think not allowing them at a tournament too unreasonable especially when the entry fee is 5 dollars? Although I use the Puppet Deck myself and have gotten used to it by now, I also must agree that it was quite hard following the cards (both my own and my opponents) in the beginning. Took me a week or so to get used to it. However, not allowing them in a tournament might bring up another question - are you going to prohibit the use of all decks except the "standard" Malifaux decks, or just the Puppet Deck? It would be rather harsh banning all of them as even the rulebook states that the game can be played with a standard deck. As for the latter, I would disagree on banning just the Puppet Deck but allowing standard card decks (spades, hearts etc.) as it takes a long time to convert the suits for people who are not used to it, therefore you have the same problem as with the Puppet Deck. I believe Puppet Decks (or any other decks) should not be banned - maybe only on ultra high level professional tournaments with huge prizes and very short playing times. Still, the best thing is for people to get used to them - it really doesn't take that much time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 ok so now that i've gotten some responses do you think not allowing them at a tournament too unreasonable especially when the entry fee is 5 dollars? well your effectively making the tournament $12.50 for anyone that only has the puppet deck. How would you feel if it was the other way round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregdorf Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 We have only one player that is the issue and he has 3 puppet decks. The main reason why I am not allowing them is there was a demo for two new players a week ago, one of the players had a puppet deck and it slowed the demo down a lot just spending the extra time to process the card. The other part of the reason is the player with three deck may get ideas from the ginormas thread we had about people cheating. He was mad at me the other day for the ruling, but part of the plan is to offer to let him use one of my regular decks for the tournament, instant deck check. If he refuses that offer it is still good because we have two players that will not play in the tournament because of him, and if he is out that means they are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad the Mad Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) We have only one player that is the issue and he has 3 puppet decks. The main reason why I am not allowing them is there was a demo for two new players a week ago, one of the players had a puppet deck and it slowed the demo down a lot just spending the extra time to process the card. The other part of the reason is the player with three deck may get ideas from the ginormas thread we had about people cheating. He was mad at me the other day for the ruling, but part of the plan is to offer to let him use one of my regular decks for the tournament, instant deck check. If he refuses that offer it is still good because we have two players that will not play in the tournament because of him, and if he is out that means they are in. Hmm, sounds to me like you've got more of a problem with the players then with the decks. Better make a ruling to do a deck check for each player instead - it's just more fair. Now it's basically a targeted discrimination against one player, of whom you BELIEVE he MIGHT cheat. For demo games the standard Malifaux decks are practical in order to make games go fasters, but in generally I'd let everybody use whatever they want. Edited January 21, 2011 by Vlad the Mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccasionalMisfyr Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I might go ahead and tack in that our shop is relatively new to Malifaux in general. Now, what that means to me, is that if you are already having to deal with rules issues and look ups, we really don't need to be questioning the legitamacy of a deck. I'm not one that wants to think that people would cheat in a tourney, but it happens. Even if they are not, but can we really afford to have to constantly ask what a card is or whatever because it is slightly more difficult to read. Maybe when our store as a whole is more familiar with the game, we can have Puppet Decks, Regular Decks, cleverly drawn things resembling decks for tournament play...but until then...I think we should just keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 As Vlad says, it sounds like you've got a bigger problem with the player than the cards. I don't want to get mixed up in your store politics, but if you have an issue with the guy, be up front about it. Targeting the decks he uses because he's the only one is bad form. As for the deck itself, I'll agree that the cards aren't as clear as they could be. But it takes me longer to translate suits from standard cards. And are you going to disallow those? What about the guy who shows up with Harley Davidson playing cards that are just as hard to read? Are you going to make a pass through everyone's decks to see if you think they're easy enough to read from across a table? That seems a rather unpleasant way to run a tournament, IMHO. Personally, I call the result whenever I flip anything anyway. I just think that's courteous as a player. If you can't read the cards and feel the need to know what every flip is, just ask them to call their results. If you can't trust your opponent and think he'll try to lie about the cards he flipped... Well, that is again a completely separate issue, and it really has nothing to do with the puppet deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregdorf Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Deck checks bog everything down and this serves the same purpose. There is nothing unfair about running an event this way, everyone has access to the standard deck and if he does not have or does not want to spend the cash on a new deck he can use mine. One final point if I do not make an effort to discourage bad behavior on his part how is that fair to the people he is going to have to play against. I want to make this a fun event for everyone involved, and the last thing I want is someone to walk away with a bad experience because I did not take measures to stop bad behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Aside from my first game with them, I've never had any problem reading the Puppet deck cards. It's interesting to hear that other people dislike them though. In the future I might just give my opponent the option of having me use the standard deck rather than the puppet one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project suns Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I have the puppet deck and a regular deck. While I love the puppet deck, I guess it could be a pain to read for the other player across the table. Honestly everyone should just call out the number and total. If there is any funny business people can just check the discard stack. Eh, it just depends on the community. Everyone just wants to have a friendly game without worry that the other player is pulling a fast one on you. Personally, I can be paranoid so I do sometimes worry about these things hah hah. Though sometimes in order to enjoy the game you have to simply trust that the other player wants to enjoy the game as well. All that aside, it's a beautiful deck and I love the artwork. I actually do prefer to use it over the regular fate deck. Hopefully we can see more themed decks in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vybeosa Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Considering you're offering him to use your deck during the encounter, I don't see the problem with prohibiting it. Asking him would be better than just straight prohibiting him though, and make it clear that it's really so that the tournament can happen at a faster pace, and to make it easier on everyone. Don't talk about cheating though, that might be insulting. I don't see the problem with prohibiting non-standard Malifaux decks in tournaments, mainly when you're offering decks for those that don't have the right cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oozeboss Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Aside from my first game with them, I've never had any problem reading the Puppet deck cards. It's interesting to hear that other people dislike them though. In the future I might just give my opponent the option of having me use the standard deck rather than the puppet one. Ditto. It does set off alarm bells for me that one person has 3 Puppet Decks though. I really fail to see any valid reason why he would do so. I have a puppet deck & a Neverborn deck (so that I can run demo games & provide 2 decks), and although I usually play the Puppet, my opponent's comfort zone means far more to me. (Last question - for the Mods/ Admin: why is this generic thread lost in the Neverborn part of the site?) :marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I love the Puppet deck and it is one of the highest quality deck of cards I own. I love nothing more then shuffling that deck so easily and narry a worry that a card is going to break on me or split because of it. Why are people so concerned with reading it? Don't you trust your opponents? Heck you should be looking over any way... I don't get why people wouldn't allow them. *shakes head* I think you should lighten up a bit and just deal with it if you have to look over slightly more to read the card. They are very easy to get used to after that and you will quickly start to learn what picture goes with what value. I don't think anyone should be banning them or saying "no I wont play you if you use that." Its a valid deck, let them play sheesh. Just do the extra 1 second of work to glance over a bit closer. It sounds more like people don't trust their players rather then the deck. If that's the case, fine let them use the deck just ask them to place it closer to the center of the field and out of the way. But they bought it, as long as its a legal deck you really shouldn't be telling them they can't use it. Its like me telling you you can't use your master because the paint scheme doesn't make me think of your master as that master when I glance over and I may make a mistake. Blah this really gets under my skin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregdorf Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 It sounds more like people don't trust their players rather then the deck. If that's the case, fine let them use the deck just ask them to place it closer to the center of the field and out of the way. But they bought it, as long as its a legal deck you really shouldn't be telling them they can't use it. I would normally not care, but after running the demo I wanted to avoid any problems that show up and we had problems when it was two honest new people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I would love to have the original decks reprinted in plastic. The puppet deck just really holds up better in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I must say, at least one member of out gaming group has a set of the original cards which is bordering on being marked due to wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) @Greg In all honesty, if I was a player at your store I would be miffed at you to. If you don't want him to use a legal product of the same company that makes the game... give him a refund. Buy him a new deck if you can. But otherwise... come on, it really doesn't slow the game down once you get used to looking at the deck the first time. If your running a demo, fine its a demo. Its a completely different thing, but for casual games or tournies... let them use the deck they want. Heck I used to rock a vintage Gargoyles the Cartoon Show deck of cards. I've had a player with a deck of burlesque cards before, THAT is distracting. But in the end, the game played fine once people got used to them. It can't really make the game take that much longer.. maybe 5 minutes over the entire game. My point is... its a product that can be used for the game, let people use it if they want. It's not hard to read once you get over looking at it the first time, just like the regular decks. Edited January 21, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I would love to have the original decks reprinted in plastic. The puppet deck just really holds up better in use. That would be awesome. Like I said before, this may be the highest quality deck of cards I won. I wonder who the manufacturer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Honestly me and entire group have our decks sleeved in magic the gathering sleeves...(or other cards games).looks great keeps them pristine and durable.. And can keep them in a nice plastic deck box..Recomend it for everyone.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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