New Errata

[tadaka]

Hey bear.

Personaly I would like to be informed any chance down the road when you guys get some time we could get a break down of who is who at wyrd.

[Joza]

/me probably asking for ban, but where's hope...

You hit the right string, sKeTCH - we're uninformed, and that's probably the base of all these misunderstandings/flames/whatevers... So why not inform us on these, and possibly some other interesting matters from Wyrd I belive that it would raise the overall tension, and would actually make a lot of folks quite happier

[MrNybbles]

. . .

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the Errata matter as well as their uninformed perspective of what my role is here at Wyrd.

. . .

Well as long as I'm entitled to my opinion. . . :vb_devil:

In my opinion it may be useful if Wyrd not only posted the official Erratas (with versions 1.0, 2.0, 3.0) but also had an unofficial/pending/WIP errata (with versions like 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 for what is changed from official 1.0) so we can see a little of the behind the scenes action on what Wyrd is planning to do. The extra errata is close, but is really just an errata of the official errata and is more difficult to add completely new things to.

If we could have seen the Leveticus V2 card updates before those cards would have been printed then there would have not been a need for the V3 cards.

V3 still has the V2 typo for Blessings of Desolation, btw. It grants the trigger Desolate Warping to models, but triggers ONLY on an Entropic Claws attack, and models with Entropic Claws ALREADY have that trigger. Leveticus Back V3

This would have the following benifits.

1) The community can see what issues are addressed and can choose to use the fixes before the next errata is released.

2) The community can see if the fixes make sense to them and give feedback. You won't catch everything until Wyrd lets it loose into the wild.

3) I have no idea if Blessings of Desolation is even on the todo list. Should I stop bringing this up?

[The Green Git]

Mea Culpa.

[Ratty]

3) I have no idea if Blessings of Desolation is even on the todo list. Should I stop bringing this up?

It's a mistake is should say Melee Weapon. They have already commented on this.

[nerdelemental]

Hey bear.

Personaly I would like to be informed any chance down the road when you guys get some time we could get a break down of who is who at wyrd.

<-----piss boy

[tadaka]

<-----piss boy

Bah

Nerd likes levi. Levi likes nerd

that = awsome

[Justin]

Well as long as I'm entitled to my opinion. . . :vb_devil:

In my opinion it may be useful if Wyrd not only posted the official Erratas (with versions 1.0, 2.0, 3.0) but also had an unofficial/pending/WIP errata (with versions like 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 for what is changed from official 1.0) so we can see a little of the behind the scenes action on what Wyrd is planning to do. The extra errata is close, but is really just an errata of the official errata and is more difficult to add completely new things to.

If we could have seen the Leveticus V2 card updates before those cards would have been printed then there would have not been a need for the V3 cards.

V3 still has the V2 typo for Blessings of Desolation, btw. It grants the trigger Desolate Warping to models, but triggers ONLY on an Entropic Claws attack, and models with Entropic Claws ALREADY have that trigger. Leveticus Back V3

This would have the following benifits.

1) The community can see what issues are addressed and can choose to use the fixes before the next errata is released.

2) The community can see if the fixes make sense to them and give feedback. You won't catch everything until Wyrd lets it loose into the wild.

3) I have no idea if Blessings of Desolation is even on the todo list. Should I stop bringing this up?

I don't like this idea.

Making such a visual demonstration that the rules are in the air and fan opinion can sway them will just encourage people to yell really loud to get what they want.

Transparency is great until you find yourself in the grocery store naked.

That said, there are a lot of suggestions I would make, but...I've already made them. So, bleh.

[Justin]

No one suggested you repackage the stock, generally the complaint about the V2 Cards has been about the lack of communication. V2 cards arriving in stores caught some people by surprise as they assumed there would be announcement, likely in the area specifically put aside for announcements, stating that you had started to ship the V2 cards. Additionally I'd imagine many of us would of appreciated a list of which models are getting V2 cards, just some of them or all of them? If just some, which ones? In the absence of this communication the community did create a thread to try and solve this dilemma, but that doesn't mean Wyrd couldn't of handled it better. Or even posted in that thread when it came about stating which models were getting new cards.

The public V2 cards will be greatly appreciated, but it would also of been greatly appreciated to be a bit more aware of whats going on within Wyrd.

Man, you sure did get beat up for this post. I wouldn't have replied but it was a little brutal for what was a, relatively, benign post.

And what you said right here, that I quoted, I think was entirely reasonable and logical. I agree with it.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Justin

[MrNybbles]

It's a mistake is should say Melee Weapon. They have already commented on this.

Thanks, I missed the comment on it. I sometimes find the New Posts button doesn't always show something new posted and I miss a few things until I go back and do a search for them. I remember you posted about this in another thread but never saw Sketch reply to it.

[Zethal]

Well for someone who wants people to read the entire thread, I suggest you read my post. Not once did I call you a douchebag. Unless of course you are one of those people who scours the rulebook for broken, abusive combos because it makes you feel important to be the best nerd. In that case I feel sorry for you and your opponents.

The intent of scouring the rulebook is to learn the game and become good at it. An unintended effect (and not a bad one) is finding things like Hamelin's infinite combo.

'Trying Hard' and attempting to be the best at things one partakes in are generally considered admirable qualities. That they are looked down upon by some people in the context of gaming still baffles me.

But yes you indirectly called me a douche bag, and you did it without any understanding of my position on the matter, you lack empathy and critical thought sir and maybe you should try to listen to what other people are saying before judging so harshly.

I do not greatly enjoy painting but I don't call people assholes because they do and are better at it than I am. I very much appreciated a well painted army, but not to get the same respect because for knowing the rules and being good at the game is an amazing double standard.

In a tournament you have other issues, but you can (and should) consult the person running the tournament on any ambiguous rulings you feel may come up, before you go to the tournament.

Yup. Something I've already mentioned in this thread. Please threads something before you comment in it. Otherwise we just end up rehashing old things every time someone enters the thread.

Epic rage is epic?

And no one called you a douchebag. Stop strawmanning. It doesn't help your argument, which has some very good points wrapped burrito-style in spite.

I do think the errata since book 2 could have been handled better. We havent sen much of Wyrd since gen con, and it hasn't helped the mess any. But I've got no doubt they'll fix things. They've been good so far, I'm willing to show a little trust. I've seen how busy they really are. I say we calm down and just relax. The new errata will be out soon.

While I'm a bit frustrated, its certainly no where close to 'rage'. And writing it off frustration of a fan/player/consumer simply because of the topic in question is nerdy doesn't make the frustration less legitimate.

He was calling me a douche-bag, and he was doing it from a place of extreme ignorance. I didn't use him calling me a douche-bag to suggest that his arguments were invalid, so it certainly wasn't a strawman to bring it up.

But again, the cause of my frustration and various others around here is the lack of communication. Especially for the duration in which there has been no communication. That on top of a having purchased a product that the expected quality (the rulebook not the models) it makes people feel neglected and used.

The people here requesting more information from Wyrd are doing so because they enjoy the game, they want to see it continue and are trying to offer assistance by either expressing ways to fix it or talking about their feelings relating to the problem. They/we want to see action being taken and feel like Wyrd cares about its fans, because we care about Wyrd.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the Errata matter as well as their uninformed perspective of what my role is here at Wyrd. I would just hope that people try to understand it's not just something that can happen overnight without considering the whole story of what is involved.

Please keep it civil or I'll end up having to lock the thread and pass out warnings.

I don't know what your role is a Wyrd nor really have I claimed to. I did suggest how Wyrd might improve their interactions with the community and you post with much greater frequency than other Wyrd employees, or at least do in the areas of the forum I frequent. So suggesting that you are a 'face of Wyrd' seems a legitimate claim.

But as rajcze mentioned, the request was for information so that we can become informed.

[Alondir]

calm dwn everyone or the thread will get locked,

[EricJ]

There will be an official announcement about what's upcoming in just a day or three. A lot of work is being put into this, and it's been taking up the majority of every one of my days along with everyone on the development team.

We did not want to make promises we couldn't keep, or set timelines we couldn't meet. Some major decisions have been made, and they required the appropriate amount of time to be made right. We weren't going to rush things for the sake of rushing things, if it meant hurting the game in the long run. So the best I can do right now is that you will know more very shortly!

[xxXhayzelXxx]

*getting excited*

[icemantis99]

Woot woot!

And to Zethal- I do apologize for my last post, it was a bit snippy. I don't think he meant to call you a douchebag- there's a difference between people who play to win and "cheese" players, who'll use ANY combo, no matter how broken- i.e. Akuma in SSF II. I can understand being upset over the slight, though. I think we should all just drop it, and sit with glee for the new mana-errata being dropped from the heavens.

Again, i apologize for being a bit of a dick there. I broke my first rule! *shame*

-Chris

[tajnisvet]

There will be an official announcement about what's upcoming in just a day or three.

That is all I wanted since this thread occured. I'm pretty sure that all of us wanted to hear this sentence.

Hear from you soon!

Thanks Eric, thanks Wyrd!

[Sandwich]

Sandwich want Errata.

[tadaka]

Sandwich want Errata.

I want a sandwich just not you. Like ham and cheese or some thing.

[EricJ]

I wanted to tell you as much as you wanted to hear it, but I also knew that until now we didn't have anything concrete to say...and that's just a recipe for trouble!

[MrNybbles]

We did not want to make promises we couldn't keep, or set timelines we couldn't meet. Some major decisions have been made, and they required the appropriate amount of time to be made right. We weren't going to rush things for the sake of rushing things, if it meant hurting the game in the long run. So the best I can do right now is that you will know more very shortly!

That sounds like the type of answer engineers like to give to management and that management hates getting from engineers.

Engineer: We found the problem that caused some of our product to fail the tests. Someone put the wrong part number on the specifications so the part we are using works, but doesn't fit right. Also, all of the product that passed all the tests have the same problem so we need to fix those before they can be sold.

Management: Do you know how to fix it?

Engineer: Yes sir, but it's going to take a while.

Management: How long will it take?

Engineer: As long as it takes for everyone in the management hierarchy to review the change to the correct part, check with their subordinates that this won't cause other problems elsewhere, and sign off on it.

Management: . . .

[Csonti]

That is all I wanted since this thread occured. I'm pretty sure that all of us wanted to hear this sentence.

Hear from you soon!

Thanks Eric, thanks Wyrd!

:ditto::peace:

[Zethal]

I wanted to tell you as much as you wanted to hear it, but I also knew that until now we didn't have anything concrete to say...and that's just a recipe for trouble!

Appreciate it. Thank you for the update.

Don't need to give us a date in situations like that, but an update on what you are working on and why it is talking long or what the goal is would give us information without setting a date you can't meet.

[Justin]

I would like to see things that ARE concrete updated on a semi-regular basis.

Even if it's as simple as putting the updates to Obey from the extra errata items thread into the errata.

Or putting up the updates which are on V2 cards. (if they're printed on cards being sold, I hope they're concrete enough for an updatable pdf...Levi excluded)

Basically just anything you KNOW you have down, no matter how few the number of things they are, put up on a regular basis.

Obviously it couldn't be put up randomly. Maybe the first of every other month, or the first of every third month, just so people know when to look.

This would eliminate the extra errata thread (as I assume that stuff is solidly decided as well) and reduce the number of places people need to look for rulings.

You are imposing a time line, I suppose. But it is a time line that you should always be able to meet, because you will never be expected to fix EVERYTHING (or even a lot of things), it's simply an opportunity to post whatever you are sure you want to change without it being held up by separate issues. Even if it's as simple as adding the fix to obey back into the errata that was accidentally left out, and nothing else. So long as you get to choose the type and amount of work, deadlines are fairly easy. And, if you have no fixes at all to announce...just announce that. Just allow yourself a date for people to look for possible updates, as opposed to putting them in a thread on the forums.

I am sure with this errata that is about to be released there must be a few things that were concrete for some time that ended up being held up by things which were much more abstract and difficult. This is what I want to avoid.

But that's me. I know I've said it, but I tend to repeat myself. Most people here probably know this by now.

[Alondir]

Woooop Wooooop, thx wyrd

[DeleteAccount]

I know that this may just be being too insistant and I know we have been promised an answer, but I simply cannot restate enough how important this errata is. I'm a new player and I mostly have no idea how the game is even played correctly, with an errata, an errata of the errata and different card versions for different models (there even being more than one version sometimes) makes it hell to play the game as it is intended.