Malifaux Model Tier Project

[AkumaKaze]

Hey everyone,

I was playing some Tekken online with some friends the other day and the discussion of character tiers came up during the matches. For those unfamiliar, Character Tiers is a sort of rating system that is used to judge on paper how often a character will win a match against an opponent. Usually, tiers also represent the ease of use of characters as well, so in theory a "higher tiered" character will be easier to use for newcomers compared to others.

These tiers are matched based on character health, hitting power, move-set and move use, zoning (screen control) and many other factors.

Tiers are usually based on a letter grade as such:

S Tier: Usually one or two characters that really outshine the others. Think of this as a 9.5 to 10 out of 10 character.

A Tier: Excellent characters with much to offer in skill-set

B Tier: Great characters that offer a good package but may lack on a few skill-sets

C Tier: Average character with an almost equal amount of strengths and weaknesses.

D Tier: A character with a few great moves, but mostly unimpressive.

F Tier: Really bad character. There are USUALLY none of these in fighting games, but there are exceptions.

Now do not think of tiers as a tried and true "Tier S will always beat tier D" formula. Player skill plays a lot into it. Example: I play Blanka in Super Street Fighter IV (a Tier C, borderline D character) and I regularly fight Sagat and Dudley Players (Both Tier S) online and win regularly.

Where does this rambling lead? After having the conversation, I thought it would be a good idea to set up model tiers for Malifaux. After sitting down and really looking at a ranking system, I found a 1-10 out of 10 system works best for grading the models. I scratch built an arbitrary system to help make the grading a bit easier but still details the character's abilities (even if it is by a number).

The easiest way to do this is by having 10 points to each character that are graded individually:

OFFENSE (OF): How well can they hit others WITHOUT spells or buffs from other models. Triggers count.

DEFENSE (DE): How do they do at not getting hit WITHOUT spells or buffs. Triggers count.

RANGE (RA): How well does the model do at attacking at range? Spells and buffs do not count. Triggers count.

MAGIC (MA): How well/reliable does the model cast its spells. Triggers count. Really look at all of the spells on the model for this one.

MELEE (ME): How well does the model perform in close combat. Spells and buffs do not count. Triggers count.

UTILITY (UT): Through Spells, Abilities, and Triggers, how well does the model buff/de-buff itself and/or others, and control the board? Explosives, pulses, and auras count in this as well.

DAMAGE OUTPUT (DO): What degree of damage does the model put out? Spells and the like count toward this.

SURVIVABILITY (SU): How well the model soaks up damage. Spells and the like count toward this.

CREW COHESION (CC): How well does the model operate with others in the crew? Spells and the like count toward this.

MOBILITY (MO): How well the model moves about the board and over/around obstacles. Spells and the like count toward this.

Scoring each category is easy:

The model is GOOD at the category: +2

The model is AVERAGE at the category: +1

The model is NOT GOOD at the category: 0

Divide the overall score by 2.

Here is an example:

Viktorias:

OF: 2

DE: 2

RA: 0 (i know one has a gun, but I am going with the worst of the two for this score)

MA: 1

ME: 2

UT: 1

DO: 2

SU: 1

CC: 0

MO: 2

Overall Score: 13/20 divide by 2: 6.5/10

Ok, I have babbled and ranted enough, let the Model ratings begin!

[alemon]

This looks interesting.

I'll try one for Perdita and see how it works.

OF: 2

DE: 2

RA: 2

MA: 1

ME: 2

UT: 0

DO: 1

SU: 1

CC: 1

MO: 2

7/10

That seems about right, I think.

[alemon]

Trying another one for Colette this time:

OF: 0

((this one was a bit confusing. Do you mean Other spells or her spells?))

DE: 1

RA: 0

MA: 1

ME: 0

UT: 2

DO: 1

SU: 2

CC: 2

MO: 2

5.5/10

[AkumaKaze]

You got it!

Note to others: ALL tiers/grading systems are based on opinion. This is just a "quick and dirty" method to grade each model. Player skill is on an entirely different level! It is also meant to help break each model down and analyze them quickly. Tiers may help some people determine what characters they might play.

[AkumaKaze]

Offense is mainly based solely off of their Cb stat. I would rate her at a 0 personally (she can only use her fists). She is not good at hitting unless it is with spells. I think I would put her MA at 2 (she is REALLY good with spells & the free soulstone per round helps!)

[Wodschow]

Soeh.. Tried to fill in for Hamelin and got 2's at mostly everything.. LoL.. Thing is he can do just about everything just not all of it at once.

[Dolomyte]

It's tough to grade masters based on solely their attributes, everything about them could be 0 and if the crew cohesion is a unbelieveably high 2, the scale would be off.

Using your fighter tier though, I would go.

S Tier: Perdita, Lilith

A Tier: Pandora, Colette, Nicodem, Rasputina, Seamus

B Tier: Zoraida, McMourning, Lady J, Viks, Hamelin, Kirai, Dreamer

C Tier: Sonnia(She is S versus the caster armies, F versus the non casters), Ramos, Leveticus, Som'er Teeth, C Hoffman

D Tier: Marcus (The new beasts might help, but im still really not seeing him winning, ever.)

[Sandwich]

So lets see, for Seamus

OF - +1

DE - +1

RA - +1

MA - +2

ME - +0

UT - +2

DO - +1

SU - +2

CC - +2

MO- +2

Total 14/20 /2 = 7/10.

So He's a Tier B.

QUESTION - For CC, do you mean his intended crew, or how well he works with the units in the Resser's list?

OP, you should honestly take all the responses for each master and list their rank.

This is a really, really neat thread.

/bump

/bump

[AkumaKaze]

Crew Cohesion (CC) is primarily there for their own crew. I figured this in as a default. However, any model (even non-masters) that work well for ANY model it is working with is pretty much an auto +2. It is a bit of an abstract but important aspect. Example: In my initial post for the Viks I gave them a 0 (not good) for CC. That is because their spells and triggers only help them and one spell requires you to sacrifice a model to make them better.

[AkumaKaze]

I will keep making ranks for the masters throughout the week. I have this unfortunate thing called work I have to to to pay for bills and buy models!

[Werecat]

Interesting....

McMourning

OF +1

DF 0

RA +1 (scalpel slinging)

MA +2

ME +2

UT +1

DO +2

SU +2

CC +1

MO +1

6.5/10

Hmmm... Not sure if I agree entirely. There were attributes that Mcmourning relies so heavily on, I would have scored them higher if I could have. Very cool idea though

[AkumaKaze]

You've got the right idea Werecat. If McMourning is really good at certain things, but not ALL (hence the 10 aspect grading) you play to what he is good at. It goes back to the initial post: He would be a mid to upper-mid range character that is good at a select set of abilities. It doesn't make him terrible, it just comes back to your skill with him. If he is your "main" master and you are good with him, don't let his rating stand in your way of playing him!

[alemon]

It's tough to grade masters based on solely their attributes, everything about them could be 0 and if the crew cohesion is a unbelieveably high 2, the scale would be off.

Using your fighter tier though, I would go.

S Tier: Perdita, Lilith

A Tier: Pandora, Colette, Nicodem, Rasputina, Seamus

B Tier: Zoraida, McMourning, Lady J, Viks, Hamelin, Kirai, Dreamer

C Tier: Sonnia(She is S versus the caster armies, F versus the non casters), Ramos, Leveticus, Som'er Teeth, C Hoffman

D Tier: Marcus (The new beasts might help, but im still really not seeing him winning, ever.)

Why did you give Perdita and Lilith an S rank?

[AkumaKaze]

Since Marcus seems to get unanimous hate I will do him next:

OF: 0

DE: 1

RA: 0

MA: 2

ME: 1

UT: 2

DO: 0

SU: 1

CC: 1

MO: 2

Total: 10 out of 20 /2= 5/10

Not the greatest score but I win with Marcus constantly and he is one of my favorite casters!

[Dolomyte]

Lilith would be higher then S if she could be, I have never, ever, seen her lose a game when being played with a competitive list and a moderately skilled player (IE, her and and all alps would be non-competitive).

Transposition is hands down the most powerful spell in the game, by far, put it in the hands of one of the deadliest melee masters and you have an unbeatable combination.

Also, despite being the best caster in book 1, she got a wealth of new models and the rich got richer with Nekima, Lelu, Lilitu, and the Shaman.

As for Perdita, the family is a high defense, high willpower army that does some of the highest damage in the game (ram trigger for extra damage) at the furthest range. Even if you kill the entire family, you still need to do with what is sure to be an 8ss loaded perdita camping 8 defense and immunity to all things willpower. Colette is the best option for killing either, simply because her best attack targets CA -2.

[AkumaKaze]

Leveticus Lady Justice

OF: 1 OF: 2

DE: 0 DE: 1

RA: 0 RA: 1

MA: 2 MA: 1

ME: 1 ME: 2

UT: 2 UT: 0

DO: 1 DO: 2

SU: 2 SU: 1

CC: 1 CC: 1

MO: 0 MO: 1

Leveticus Total: 10 out of 20 /2= 5/10

Lady Justice Total: 12 out of 20 /2= 6/10

[ThatTyeGuy]

i dont get the hate for marcus, if played right he can be a real beast....c wut i did thar....:elefant:

[AkumaKaze]

Ooh! Funny guy!

[tadaka]

Wow very surprised levi rating so in peoples opinion given how many people cry he is over powered.

[dgraz]

interesting thread. It obviously can't be too accurate but it should give a starting idea.

As far as people saying 'that numbers too low' or 'that master is better than that', The value is a starting value. lke the post about Levi above - I can see the low number for starters, I bet if I tried Levi against someone trying Perdita I would lose - but once I learn all of Levi's little tricks.......

[AkumaKaze]

Another thing to point out: This is obviously done on a model to model basis. A lot of people in my area say that Levi is overpowered as well, but they are looking at it form a crew vs crew basis. Since.....well......ALL of us play a strategy-based game we know to take models that will make up for any weaknesses in the crew. Take Levi vs Lilith (just the masters, no crew). If they were to go head to head on a 3x3 board, statistically Lilith would absolutely DESTROY Levi. Not saying that the Levi player can't win, he just has to work a bit harder to do it.

[AvatarForm]

This system will not work. Not only is the Paper>Rock>Scissors arguement, but a good player who know how to activate and cheat fate can basically ignore these tiers.

[Werecat]

This system will not work. Not only is the Paper>Rock>Scissors arguement, but a good player who know how to activate and cheat fate can basically ignore these tiers.

I think you might be missing the point. This isn't really for veteran players. This seems to be more for new players, to get an idea on where they want to start, and how difficult the various masters are to start learning with.

[Werecat]

Just out of curiosity, I'm going to do Seamus, and see how my scores compare to Sandwich's. (I haven't read his in detail, so this should be pretty unbiased)

Seamus

OF 1

DF 0

RA 1

MA 1

ME 1

DO 2

SU 2

CC 2

MO 1

5.5/10

Interesting...

[Werecat]

Von Schill

OF 1

DF 1

RA 1

MA 0

ME 1

UT 2

DO 2

SU 2

CC 2

MO 2

7/10. I love my little Hulk Hogan